Topic: Interesting stuff about SpaceX Starship (hate the name)

[Nemesis]

Now some hopeful speculation.  What if this is a "secret" testing for future plans?  The new tanks use the same structure of the tanks in starship.  What if the outer shell is made the same way?  It doesn't need to be because it doesn't hold pressure.  Could be practice for a larger diameter starship.  A 12 meter diameter ups volume (if height is the same) by roughly 75%. 

They are now making 12 meter water tanks using these same "outer shells".  They aren't cryogenic so they won't need an even larger outer shell to go around them. 

Still would like to see this turn out to be a secret prototyping for Starship II.  It would need 50 or 51 raptors for the 1st stage and possibly as many as 12 for the heavy Starship.

Still love the idea of SpaceX getting Starship fully functional and not announcing anything just start making the ship with people thinking it is more tanks.   Then of course when they start making 12 meter pressure tanks with 15 meter over shells people would wonder are THESE just tanks or prototypes for a 15 meter SS3?   

[Nemesis]

China has had their Mars lander successfully land and it is apparently functional.  Hopefully they will be open with sharing any info they gather. 

[Nemesis]

A recent modification to SpaceX’s Dragon XL lunar cargo resupply contract with NASA suggests that the spacecraft could be used as an extra crew cabin and bathroom at a lunar space station known as Gateway.

The contract modification was made around April 1st of this year and provided SpaceX around $121,000 to complete the latest study on the potential utility of its expendable Dragon XL spacecraft beyond the primary goal of resupplying a space station orbiting the Moon. Designed to deliver at least five metric tons (~11,000 lb) of pressurized and unpressurized cargo to Gateway, Dragon XL will launch on SpaceX’s own Falcon Heavy rocket – currently the only super heavy-lift launch vehicle in operation – and meant to heavily borrow from hardware and systems already developed for Crew and Cargo Dragon.

[Nemesis]

Here is something interesting in the Musk vs Bezos "competition".  Amazon has signed a 9 launch contract for the Atlas 5 to launch satellites for their proposed Internet constellation.  Why not New Glenn?  Not ready?  Then how about the Vulcan/Centaur which uses Blue Origin engines (and has a cheaper launch cost)?  Also not ready and the Space Force has to allow them to substitute Atlas 5s for a couple of launches and some launches are in jeopardy as the Atlas 5 uses Russian engines and starting in 2023 military launches have to use American developed/built engines.   

So whats up with the Vulcan/Centaur?  No clear statements but apparently the Blue Origins engines have yet to be flight certified.  For the military launches they are supposed to have 3 successful launches first before taking a military launch.

This military contract was split 60/40 between ULA and SpaceX.  SpaceX might end up with much more of it (and did a legal challenge originally to get more - they lost).

Now the Falcon Heavy is theoretically capable of the launches but the fairing is too small and the new one isn't ready yet.  Seems like a good time for a crash development project to allow them to take the contract away from ULA.  Time will tell.  Musk may be less interested as his focus is on Starship.   

[Nemesis]

For the first time since November 2020 SpaceX launched a new Falcon 9.  So 20 launches in a row with reused rockets.  Not bad.

[Nemesis]

The 1st planned SH/SS launch is using 29 engines on the SH 1st stage but the 2nd SH is planned for 32 engines.  Either if successful will be the most powerful 1st stage ever. 

They are currently finishing a Raptor engine every 2 days so at these rates it will take better than 2 months to make all the engines for a SH/SS launch (35 or 38 engines).  Now will they be able to do as they have with the Merlin and add several percent to the performance levels.  With 32 engines a 3 percent boost allow the reduction of one engine.  Fewer Raptors = more payload and less cost per launch. 

Here is hoping for a successful launch sooner rather than later. Many are doubting the SH/SS can launch this year at all let alone this summer. 

The 1st of the 2 deep sea drilling platforms being converted to SH/SS launch/landing platform is expected to be ready in 2022 and is needed to do frequent launches as you don't want these things launching near your home or business due to just the pure sound level not to mention the potential of a disaster if things do go wrong on launch.  A couple times a year not much of a problem like the Saturn 5 launches (but TWICE the thrust for launch) but with potentially 2 landings for each launch a weekly or even daily launch rate if Musk gets his way would be a bit much. 

[Nemesis]

Bezos has been making a big point of his plan to go up in the first manned flight of New Shepard on July 19th.  I doubt he is happy that Bransen has now scheduled to fly on the Spaceship 2 on July 11th upstaging him.


EDIT:  Bransen has flown.  The altitude that Spaceship 2 reaches is not universally considered to be achieving space (doesn't reach the Karman Line)

[Nemesis]

BN3 is NOT going to be the orbital booster.  It is fully stacked and is to be used for tests that do not include launches.  BN3 is on a suborbital launch/test stand. 

The orbital mission will use BN4 and SN20.  The launch tower needs one more section to be mounted then whatever other features needed for the launch to be installed.  It doesn't need the catcher feature at all at this time is first launch is not going to include landings here.

Unlike the Falcons the grid fins are not being equally spaced apart.  It is thought (not confirmed by SpaceX) that this is to facilitate catching the boosters when they get to that stage. 

The first of 3 vacuum Raptors needed for SN20 has been delivered for installing (ISP 378).  Also 3 sea level Raptors have been delivered, are these for SN20 or BN4? 

There are also hot gas thrusters delivered (needed for maneuvering the booster), some were installed on BN3 then removed as they aren't used on it as it isn't to fly.  Fuel is assumed (but not specified by SpaceX) to be methane/LOX so they can use the same fuel supply as the Raptors.  It is possible that this is the same design as would land the Lunar Starships on the moon but again not stated as such. ISP 300. 

SN15 and SN16 are on display stands, whether they are permanent monuments or will have another fate is unclear.  There has been talk of using SN16 for hyper-sonic testing.

Now will they do the orbital launch in July?  Not likely (IMO).  First of course they need to fully assemble and test BN4 and SN20 and that delays things from the original plan to use BN3. Second if BN3 uses 9 engines (the test stand it is on blocks the outer ring of engines so only the central 9 could fire) and those can't/won't be used on BN4 that delays things as they are currently finishing one engine every 2 days.  They have recently enlarged their Raptor testing from handling 2 at a time to 5 (and have done test firings of the vacuum Raptor).  So building 29 engines takes 58 days then testing (how long ??) plus potentially another 18 days (+testing) for 9 engines on BN3 so a total of 76 days, partly elapsed of course, but it could easily be September to get all the required engines.  Third this site that I've linked to before has stopped listing the orbital launch as scheduled for July to August (no precise day/time was or is listed just the month).  Fourth they are having some regulatory issues over the road closures they are doing and the number of launches, potentially this is major as it COULD involve a new environmental assessment and those could take years (not happy about that part).  So though SpaceX is still stating the target as being July it is highly doubtful, the regulatory problems might even block them from launching here for the rest of the year.  I'd love to see where the backing for these complaints come from the locals or the competition (specifically for the Artemis Lunar Landers). 

Of course Falcon 9s keep flying and landing and Starlink satellites keep going up and the BO New Glenn and its methalox engines are still no shows. Those engines are causing trouble for ULA by not appearing as promised for their new rocket causing them to have to do military launches with an older more expensive rocket and eat the extra cost.  Not good for the BO/ULA National Team trying to get the HLS (lunar lander) contract that was awarded to Spacex (and stalled by objections from both these guys and the third candidate Dynetics).

The Lunar Starship apparently is not specified by the contract to be reusable.  SpaceX did list it as a possibility but no promise was made in the proposal.  One option if they aren't going to reuse it is to land it a second time at a planned base location to become part of the base or a fuel storage tank for when they start making fuel natively.  If not used for fuel storage the tanks could be converted to rooms giving a roughly 15 story 30 foot wide tower to work with.  More stories if you use lower ceilings and keep floor thickness down.  Of course cutting it up for stainless steel building material would be a possible use on the base as well.  Naturally you could fly it back to Earth orbit as either a fuel tank for refilling other Starships or as a Space Station (or component). 

[Nemesis]

BN3 is scheduled for cryotesting on July 12th and static fire on July 13th.  As mentioned earlier the test stand blocks the outer ring of engines so it is almost certainly (IMO) only  the inner 9 engines being fired, still 3 times as many as ever fired at once before.  These 9 are also the ones that are gimballed so It may be a test of the gimballing mounts.

Some indicators are that these are a slightly upgraded engine with a higher thrust. 

[Nemesis]

Bezos has been making a big point of his plan to go up in the first manned flight of New Shepard on July 19th.  I doubt he is happy that Bransen has now scheduled to fly on the Spaceship 2 on July 11th upstaging him.

Musk has put a deposit on a flight on a future (unspecified time) flight of spaceship 2.  Another thing to annoy Bezos.

[Nemesis]

SpaceX is building a plant to make Raptor engines - target 2-4 engines per day.  Total thrust for a Super Heavy roughly double that of the Saturn V.

They seem to be having problems with the FAA over the launch/integration tower.  The FAA says it is a launch tower and has not been authorized by the environmental assessment whereas SpaceX says it isn't a launch tower but an integration tower and is covered by earlier authorizations.  They still need FAA approval for any launch however the tower is defined. 

My speculation is that the tower will have the catcher built in and then they can do a short up hop and test the catching with minimal fuel aboard.  Possibly they could use the catcher to stack Starship on top of the booster.

On the first launch of New Shepard is an 82 year old called Wally Funk.  She was trained to fly on Mercury but NASA decided on only using military test pilots which excluded women.  Finally she is going to go to space.   Now that is great publicity for Blue Origin.

[knightstorm]

On the first launch of New Shepard is an 82 year old called Wally Funk.  She was trained to fly on Mercury but NASA decided on only using military test pilots which excluded women.  Finally she is going to go to space.   Now that is great publicity for Blue Origin.
[/quote]

Not exaxtly true.  Funk and the other Mercury 13 were not officially trained.  They were recruited as a part of a side project by Dr. Lovelace who had developed the physical requirements for the astronauts and had speculated that women might be more suitable than men because they were lighter and required less air, food, and water.  NASA eventually put a stop to their training by blocking them from getting fast jet training.  When a a few of the women used their connections to get congressional hearings, John Glenn testified and he actually said, Men go off to war while women stay at home.  In addition, Jackie Cochrane a wealthy, well connected record holding female pilot who had initially been a supporter of the program turned against them after she had failed a flight physical and testified that there was no point training them because they were eventually going to get pregnant and drop out

[Nemesis]

Thanks for the clarification about Funk.   I just went by the article which didn't have the details.  I don't remember ever hearing about Funk and the other women before.

Bezos has flown and I've seen a lot of jokes about it.  People have commented how the flight ended in disaster as he came back.  Others commenting on how his rocket resembles him by looking like a "large dick".

His crediting his workers at Amazon and his customers for paying for it didn't make him look good. He really needs to put New Glenn into service. 

A lawsuit trying to keep more Starlink Satellites from being put up has been tossed which is good news for SpaceX. 

A static fire with 3 engines on BN3 has been performed there MAY end up being a 9 engine firing.  One of the engines was installed in only 22 minutes.  SpaceX is planning a new Raptor factory capable of making 2 to 4 engines a day. 

[Nemesis]

They have taken the engines off BN3 and sent them back for other tests so likely BN3 isn't going to have a 9 engine test. 

Musk has announced they will build a new larger (but only slightly taller) high bay.  So looks like he is gearing up for producing multiple SH and SS simultaneously.  This works with building another larger Raptor factory and expanding the testing facility as well.  Details still lacking probably until foundations start going in.  Would like to see a size increase per bay compatible with 12 or 15 meter diameter construction .

Bezos has apparently "volunteered" to cut the price of the National Team lunar lander but I have yet to see a real analysis of how his "offer" compares to the original bidding process.  I don't know if NASA is even allowed to accept such an offer or if this is just theater for Bezos to make claims of corruption or bias from NASA.  I'll be watching what the informed have to say if anything.

[Nemesis]

The Space Launch Schedule site lists August 30th for the orbital launch of Starship.  I haven't seen any other place setting a precise date. 

[Nemesis]

Both the "National Team" and Dynetics challenges to the Human Landing System for the Artemis mission contract being given to SpaceX and the Lunar Starship have been tossed.  So soon SpaceX can begin working on the Lander directly.

Nothing about whether the "special deal" offered by Bezos will change things.  I have my doubts that NASA legally can accept it as well as financially as they don't have funding from Congress.

[Nemesis]

I'm seeing a report that SH BN4 is not only fully stacked but on the launch pad with all 29 engines and grid fins that are fixed in place not movable or even foldable.  SS SN20 is still a work in process but seems to be far enough along to have all fins on.  There is a new thinner fin design but whether SN 20 has them or not I don't know but if it looks like the fins are smaller they very well could be.
 
Starliners launch for the 2nd attempt to dock with the ISS was delayed due to the spin on the ISS.  Currently scheduled for this Saturday 8 PM EDT.

[Nemesis]

Starliner has valve problems in the propulsion system and the launch is delayed with the Starliner being removed from the launch pad.

SN20 is now stacked on top of BN4.  Apparently the stack was just a test and they separated them for further work.

[Nemesis]

Virgin Galactic selling single seats at $450,000.  Group rates and full booking rates seem to be offered but prices aren't yet available.

I still don't think Musk really expects to fly on Virgin Galactic I think it was just to annoy Bezos that he made a deposit.

Had to add a Starship picture

[Nemesis]

August 8th last year SN04 flew with a single engine.  Now BN04 and SN20 are being prepped for an orbital test mission.  Great progress.

BN05 and SN21 (or maybe SN25) are being worked on as well as more fuel tankage and the tower.  Hints that orbital refueling may be from the sides rather than bottom mating as previously indicated.  Engines have been removed for further testing and more work has gone on the heat shielding. 

Starliner has been dismounted from its launcher as they were unable to resolve the valve issues in place.  This is the same capsule that missed the ISS and Boeing wanted to count it as a success and go straight to manned missions.