Topic: Ruleset and other game play Specifics

[[UFP]Exeter]

My customization is not to redesign the ship s in sfc3, that was insane.  But more of refits and "upgrades" like engineers can do. 

Unless your'e a pirate

[Corbomite]

That's pretty much what SFC1 had IIRC.

[[UFP]Exeter]

have not played sfc1 in ages.  wonder if it will even install on win 8.1

[knightstorm]

Ship customization is planned bu need to get basic gameplay working.

Forget I mentioned anything!  Customization is something that very few captains ever get any say on.  Maybe in WWII, PT boat skippers could get a selection of guns, but the commander of a real ship gets what he's given and makes it work!

The whole ship customization scheme that SFC3 borrowed from Activision's earlier titles was so unmilitary that it left me completely unable to suspend disbelief.  A starship is not a personal hot rod for some captain to play with in the garage.  The company car isn't making money for the boss if the driver keeps it in the shop!  I know people think that the governments are just here to waste money, but bosses are bosses.  Starfleet does not want to see its ships coming back to dock, just because the captain isn't happy with the torpedo launcher that came with his ship.  When the boss wants you to get better equipment, he will call.  Believe me, when the boss wants you to come to shop, he will call.

Even with larger ships there can be a lot of variation in terms of things like radars and other weaponry.  And since in wartime, resources are limited, it stands to reason that a successful captain may be able to cash in whatever prestige he's earned to get the equipment he feels is a priority installed onto his ship.  That said, I agree that gameplay would be better served with a SFC 1 style upgrade system where a base hull can be modified to a limited number of refit and special mission packages.

[[UFP]Exeter]

I will have to get a copy and see how it works.

[Tulwar]

Ship customization is planned bu need to get basic gameplay working.

Forget I mentioned anything!  Customization is something that very few captains ever get any say on.  Maybe in WWII, PT boat skippers could get a selection of guns, but the commander of a real ship gets what he's given and makes it work!

The whole ship customization scheme that SFC3 borrowed from Activision's earlier titles was so unmilitary that it left me completely unable to suspend disbelief.  A starship is not a personal hot rod for some captain to play with in the garage.  The company car isn't making money for the boss if the driver keeps it in the shop!  I know people think that the governments are just here to waste money, but bosses are bosses.  Starfleet does not want to see its ships coming back to dock, just because the captain isn't happy with the torpedo launcher that came with his ship.  When the boss wants you to get better equipment, he will call.  Believe me, when the boss wants you to come to shop, he will call.

Even with larger ships there can be a lot of variation in terms of things like radars and other weaponry.  And since in wartime, resources are limited, it stands to reason that a successful captain may be able to cash in whatever prestige he's earned to get the equipment he feels is a priority installed onto his ship.  That said, I agree that gameplay would be better served with a SFC 1 style upgrade system where a base hull can be modified to a limited number of refit and special mission packages.

I'm not going to argue how much a ship captain can equip his ship.  Obviously, the less disciplined the navy, the less standard the equipment.  What we are talking about is a game.  SFC 1, 2, & OP were steeped in the ruleset of SFB.  SFB was modeled on various war games, like those produced by Avalon Hill.  These games are made around the concept of the Order of Battle.  This is a listing of the supreme commander's assets by type.  All items of a type are assumed to be identical and interchangeable.  As a veteran of the US Army, I can assure you that not all field jackets are the same, but this is the root of military organization.  SFB felt like a strategic WWII simulation, but set out in space, in the far future.  This is why the game appeals to me.

With the personalization of player ships, you get into a different kind of game.  It's more reminiscent of a game where you level up and get new powers.

[knightstorm]

I'm not going to argue how much a ship captain can equip his ship.  Obviously, the less disciplined the navy, the less standard the equipment.

I was describing the type of standardization in the USN and RN during WWII.

With the personalization of player ships, you get into a different kind of game.  It's more reminiscent of a game where you level up and get new powers.

And like I said, we agree on that point.

[FPF-DieHard]

Have you checked this out?

http://www.dynaverse.net/forum/index.php/topic,163393710.0.html

Something like this with and SFCish tactical combat would give me major geek-wood.

[FPF-DieHard]

Regarding this above, I'm gonna have to buy this game and mess around with it and that mod.  I'm wondering if we need to re-invent the wheel.

[Captain Adam]

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[[UFP]Exeter]

Yes I have played it.  I bought it and agee with the comments.  The game is boring

[Captain Adam]

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[FPF-DieHard]

But anyways, back to Armada3 SOSE, I didn't like the warp feature, have you played it DieH?

No, not yet.  But I'm so desperate for a "fix" I need to try something.

I spent two hours last night watching old PvP films from the General War series of servers.  Single-player ain’t cutting it for me and reliving the old films is the closest we’ll get to good PvP these days.

I bought, DLd and played it. As I said in prior posts about it, the work that was put into it was beyond anything I've seen, in par with Armada 2 FleetOps, beautiful ships, total conversion, every detail was appreciated by me and I'm sure by everyone else, that being said, after 2 hours I couldn't play anymore, it lacks the SFC feel, you aren't controlling your ship in battle, it gets boring after a while. I don't know what type of crack they put into the SFC series that has us hooked but it's hard to play games that aren't SFC/SFB.

That “thing” is SFB.  The tactical depth, zillion different races, different weapons systems, etc . . . that is the crack.

No, I do NOT think this could replace SFC/SFB . . . but what about as a STRATEGIC game?  Kinda like an F&E. 

Even like STO. I'll post a pic later of my crew(so proud of my uniforms I designed) lol
There's a lot other games did right, I love that we can make a crew, change the faces, bodies, uniforms, things like that bring out the sense of creating your own little Star Trek Realm, something so cool bc you created your crew, the uniforms, the bridge layout, but after a while once combat starts it lacks the SFC feel and even though these games attract us, we are left bored and just come right back to here wanting more.

STO gets a lot of stuff right, and it’s a beautiful game.  But they get more wrong than that get right and they get it wrong enough that it makes me want to punch a baby.

[Corbomite]

For some reason eye candy has always taken precedent over tactical depth. Both are equally possible, that has been shown. Tactical depth, however, requires a level of skill (or the hubristic illusion of it) that requires study and practice which many people aren't willing to put in. Most games are reward driven, i.e. if you try enough times, you will get your reward. Tactical games don't work like that. Add in the inevitable hard feelings and poor sportsmanship that generally accompany a good pwning (from both the winner and the loser) and it just drives people away. They go on to games to enjoy themselves, not get pushed around by schoolroom bullies. You need a thick skin for PvP in any game.

[FPF-DieHard]

For some reason eye candy has always taken precedent over tactical depth. Both are equally possible, that has been shown.

Absolutely, for it’s day SFC looked damned good.  It just doesn’t hold up 14 years later, hell I looked a lot better in 2001 myself 

Tactical depth, however, requires a level of skill (or the hubristic illusion of it) that requires study and practice which many people aren't willing to put in.
Most games are reward driven, i.e. if you try enough times, you will get your reward.

We had this in SFC (OP at least, can’t say regarding 3) as ultimately your skill as a player was the biggest factor in victory.  We didn’t have the South Park WOW issue of “how do you kill that which has no life” as the “Dunsels” of the game would die in their capital ships more than anyone else.

OP wasn’t an MMO, MMOs fill games with insanely stupid loot/grind mechanics so “he who hath no life” can make their character/ship so powerful they can compete with low skill.  A lot of people like this, I think it’s dumb in a SciFi setting.

Tactical games don't work like that. Add in the inevitable hard feelings and poor sportsmanship that generally accompany a good pwning (from both the winner and the loser) and it just drives people away. They go on to games to enjoy themselves, not get pushed around by schoolroom bullies.

I believe stuff’s actually gotten worse regarding this, or maybe I’ve just gotten old.

You need a thick skin for PvP in any game.

And you also need to have a rewarding PvE experience for this who aren’t into/good at PvP.  That was one of the issues we had in D2, especially after some of us “pros” had so much experience it was very difficult to catch up.

The issue with D2 was after the initial battle-lines formed the front line was everywhere.  If you wanted to do anything useful for your empire you were a target.  I guess in a way is was good as it gave Dizzy people to kill and rack up PvP VCs, but I’m not sure how good of a model that is for a new game.

[[UFP]Exeter]

I use to PvP in STO but tired of the grind.   The idea of doing a grind game sickens me, would rather have  a fluid game play for missions.  I agree with the rewards, but they need to be upgrades.  Main gear should be tied to a ship class, and rank/experience to get that.

[FPF-DieHard]

I use to PvP in STO but tired of the grind.   The idea of doing a grind game sickens me, would rather have  a fluid game play for missions.  I agree with the rewards, but they need to be upgrades.  Main gear should be tied to a ship class, and rank/experience to get that.

The above statement makes me happy 

[Corbomite]

I use to PvP in STO but tired of the grind.   The idea of doing a grind game sickens me, would rather have  a fluid game play for missions.  I agree with the rewards, but they need to be upgrades.  Main gear should be tied to a ship class, and rank/experience to get that.

The above statement makes me happy 

As it does me, but as DH pointed out, just grinding out enough XP to grant you the use of a ship doesn't actually make you quailified to command it. Now, given that this is a game we need to accept that. The trick is how to make it so that it isn't a detriment to your side and still make it fun.

[Lieutenant_Q]

I'm hoping that the seamless strategic layer will cut down on the "no-battle lines" problems of D2.  I also think that supplies need to be implemented in some way.  I'd really like to see limited Photons, I think every race needs to have an expendable heavy weapon.  You'd think twice about deep striking if you'd be down to just your primary weapons after the second or third engagement.  A cruiser with out heavies, should be an even match for a destroyer with heavies. Food and Fuel would be another thing that would be good to track.

[FPF-DieHard]

. . .  I'd really like to see limited Photons . . .

f*ck no!!!!