Topic: Favorite SFC time period

[Age]

When you say traditional enemies it sounds like those of the TV show which are the Klingons,Roms or coukd be Gorn.When it comes to the Game I would say Klingons,Roms and ISC not so much Lyran.

When I say traditional enemies, I mean traditional enemies from SFB.  After all, we are talking about a game based on SFB.  The Lyrans are allies of the Klingons.  The ISC isn't supposed to show up until much later, which makes them non-traditional enemies for early era feds.

They may not on a server but they show up early in SP campaign in EAW.I would say Klingons and Romulans.

Orignally Posted by Nemesis Try using a Z-CS or a R-WB in early then you might understand truly underpowered.

The Z-CS is fine although there is no R-WB only WB+ in Opplus.

[Javora]

Hard to say, I like mid because I love flying the F-DDL+.  But I also love the ultimate evolutions of the command variants in the late era.

You really like the DDL+ ??!?  I'd take a FFL+ any day of the week over a DDL+.  The lack of missiles or AMD makes that ship useless IMHO.   The added Photons IMHO doesn't make up the difference.  In fact I could inflict more damage than photons by routing Celine Dion's The Power of Love through the deflecter dish.  lol

[Corbomite]

Hard to say, I like mid because I love flying the F-DDL+.  But I also love the ultimate evolutions of the command variants in the late era.

You really like the DDL+ ??!?  I'd take a FFL+ any day of the week over a DDL+.  The lack of missiles or AMD makes that ship useless IMHO.   The added Photons IMHO doesn't make up the difference.  In fact I could inflict more damage than photons by routing Celine Dion's The Power of Love through the deflecter dish.  lol

Huh?

23  Power, 2 PlasF,  2 Phot,  6 Ph-1 and 2 Ph-3.  Who needs Drones or AMD with that? Not much in that class would survive long enough to make a dent. With free holding F torps it lets you OL the Photons and still have enough unstoppable firepower to make an anchor viable even if you have to use all your phasers and tractors for PD.

[Javora]

Good luck charging all of that with 23 power.  And if that DDL+ has to go up against a ship with 4 or more fast  missiles than that DDL+ will be a cloud of dust in about 10 minutes.

[Corbomite]

Good luck charging all of that with 23 power.  And if that DDL+ has to go up against a ship with 4 or more fast  missiles than that DDL+ will be a cloud of dust in about 10 minutes.

Lol. Drones are the easiest things to defend against in the game. And it has no problem charging, you just have to be smart about it. That ship is one of the few smaller than a CA/MC that can get away with castling. It also has enough power to run and gun if you play it like an ISC ship.

[Javora]

Actually I think I could take down a F-DDL+ with a F-CDL+.  Keep at about range 30, with ECM at about 3 or more.  That will make the photons practically useless and the Plasma-F won't reach out that far.  You can castle all you want, eventually those shields will come down with 6 fast missiles per volly.  Because eventually I will overpower your phaser bank.  I don't have to worry about missiles because you don't have any.  From there it is just a matter of position, running you out of WW and mines, not that you have that many to begin with.  Except mines won't work that well if you are castling.  Since a F-CDL+ has 30 power, keeping ECM and phasers charged won't be a problem let alone reinforcing the shields in case I catch you while you are charging both photons and plasmas.

[Corbomite]

Let's forget for a moment that you are comparing a CL to a DD and have 15 BPV in your favor before any space dock and that the CLD+ (I assume that's what you meant) has 28 power, not 30; hmm, 6 drones per volley and the DDL+ has 8 Phasers and 2 Tractors. When will I need WW and mines after you use your shuts for SP's? And I could afford to run and gun you for several turns to deplete your supplies since you have no real long range HW either and the DDL+ has enough power to run ECCM. I'm not saying that the DDL+ is an optimal drone killer, but it can manage it fairly well if you don't panic and use supplies wisely.

[knightstorm]

Good luck charging all of that with 23 power.  And if that DDL+ has to go up against a ship with 4 or more fast  missiles than that DDL+ will be a cloud of dust in about 10 minutes.

As long as you don't try to charge everything at once, you can charge while going at speed 31.  F-torps don't have a holding cost.  Your reaction is part of the reason why I like the DDL+.  People see the letters F and DD and automatically assume that its a death trap.  Then they get their *sses kicked.  Another hidden advantage is that it has 4 labs which gives it a high shield regeneration rate for its bpv.

[Javora]

Yeah Corbomite, I was thinking CLD+ thank you.  Although I didn't think it had 15 extra BPV, maybe I was thinking of a plain CLD.  IIRC the only difference between the two ships is shield strength.  With six missiles, the CLD can't use SP's because the ship loses track of missiles.  If I used SP's the  missiles would end up sitting in the launch tubes.

The plan here would be to fire fast missiles as soon as they load at range ~30 to over power the phasers recharge rate and phaser bank.  With 30 power the CLD can keep ECM at six and still add power to the shields.  I don't have to worry about tractors and I can use phasers in a pinch whereas the DDL+ is using phasers to dodge missiles.  That is, if the phasers can do enough damage to the missiles to destroy it on the first shot, that doesn't always happen.  Once it takes more than one phaser to destroy a missile, a DDL+ has to rely on tractors, mines, WW, or worse yet shields.

[Corbomite]

Again the CLD+ only has 28 power and it has a .75 move cost compared to the DDL+'s .67, also it does have 12 drone control. With the ability to run at speed 24 holding all weapons while having 6 points left over for EW, what makes you think I'll let you stay at range 30? Even if you try to keep ahead you will run out of map at some point. All I have to do is avoid a large missile hit and try to rotate the shields that might/do get hit until I get a good firing solution. I have seen that ship do almost 90 points in one pass with OL Photons. Getting 2/3 of that would still be a great hit.

[knightstorm]

Again the CLD+ only has 28 power and it has a .75 move cost compared to the DDL+'s .67

Actually, DDL+ is .5 movement cost.

[Corbomite]

Again the CLD+ only has 28 power and it has a .75 move cost compared to the DDL+'s .67

Actually, DDL+ is .5 movement cost.

You are right. I brain farted on that one!

[Javora]

Hold up are you talking SFC II or SFC OP.  I'm talking OP here with the 2.5.5.2 patch.  The CLD+ (and CLD) has total warp power of 24, impulse power of 4, and auxiliary power of 2 for a total engine power of 30 with a .75 movement ratio, I just looked.  This does not include the battery power of 2.

With 12 drone control just makes my job easier.  Mind you I can do the above at speed 31 while you are only doing 24.  While that might mean I'm doing laps around the map if you force me to, there is no way under those conditions that you are getting that close to me unless I want you to.

Good luck hitting anything with those photons when the target is running six ECM.  I've seen eight OL photons fly off into the darkness under those conditions.  In fact that very situation started the most heated thread on the old Taldren board that I ever started named "At less then one" range.  At that point you might want to load up that Celine Dion CD.  lol.

[Corbomite]

If you are using the stock shiplist the CLD+ has 30 power. If you are using OP+ , like Knightstorm and I, it only has 28 power. I may not be able to catch you, but I can use up all your drones and then what do you do? Besides, I can still proxy and phaser you from ~12 and still get through your shields eventually while evading the brunt of your drones. That ship can put up 6 ECCM to counter your ECM and hit with 83% at range 12 with proxies.


EDIT: Just took the CLD+ out for a spin. It can go 31 with 0.2 points left over, so even with the extra 2 power it wouldn't have enough to have 6 ECM at 31. You can go 23.25 with 6 ECM. You sure you're thinking of that ship?

[Javora]

Yep, I just did the same thing with the configuration I listed above, max power of 30.  You are right about the speed, I was only able to get up to a speed of 26 with 6 ECM.  At speed 31 I was able to reach 2 1/3 ECM.  I'm still not convinced that you can get that close.  With 6 ECM the photons were hitting about 1 in 7~8 and that is with the computer's ECCM cranked.

I took the CLD+ up against a NEC with 5 AMD's and on the first run I was still getting missiles past it's defenses.  On the second run I wrecked the NEC at about the 11 minute mark.  I don't think that a DDL+ can do as good let alone a better job.  Especially if the ship is chasing me, because the ship has to turn and drop a mine, not easy to do at range ~30.

The other thing I noted is that the DDL+ only has 4 mines and 2 shuttles.  The CLD+ starts with 90 missiles and 2 shuttles.  With 2 SP's I'm left with 13 full volleys up against the DDL+ defenses.  Even if the DDL+ can stop a volley every time it uses a mine or shuttle, what is it going to do against the other 7 volleys and 2 SP's?

[singing]
Whispers in the morning...
[/singing]

lol

[knightstorm]

The other thing I noted is that the DDL+ only has 4 mines and 2 shuttles.  The CLD+ starts with 90 missiles and 2 shuttles.  With 2 SP's I'm left with 13 full volleys up against the DDL+ defenses.  Even if the DDL+ can stop a volley every time it uses a mine or shuttle, what is it going to do against the other 7 volleys and 2 SP's?

Are you forgetting the six phaser 1s, and 2 phaser 3s.

[Corbomite]

Wait, let me get this straight: you think I am no better than the AI?  Since when do I have to turn to drop a mine? I have transporters, and since you have no DFHW and want to stay far away, there is no reason not to drop a shield and use them. I also have time and patience on my side. Even still you are comparing ships that will have a 151 point difference in BPV after space dock and I still think I could manage it. Your resources are limited, mine are infinite. The CLD+ only gets 2 shuttles total, but it seems we are talking about two different ships anyway as Firesoul seems to have adjusted the CLD+ back to SFB specs.

[KBF-Korgal]

A modest proposal: why don't you guys trade IP addresses and take this out of the theoretical?

[Corbomite]

A modest proposal: why don't you guys trade IP addresses and take this out of the theoretical?

Because I don't even know why we're discussing this at all. With a 151 BPV difference at full loadout I'd think the best tactic would be to take one to the face and then death drag the DDL+ to death while repairing madly. I'm debating his tactics against the DDL+ with a superior ship, not the superiority of the ships. Besides, I'm not claiming I'd win, I'm just claiming that it is possible due to the strange configuration of stars that makes the DDL+ a better ship than it looks on paper, which is what I believe Knightstorm was trying to get across.

[knightstorm]

I've beaten players flying a D5D with fast drones using a CLC.  The same basic tactics would probably apply well to this matchup, the only difference would be that I would need to be a little more careful since I wouldn't have the AMD to save my @$$ if I screwed up.  However, the CLD+ would be in a similar position because if they made a mistake, they'd be facing 2 F torps against their paper thin shields.  Part of the beauty of the DDL+ is that I can turn off the photons, and charge plasma while running at speed 31 if I need to.