Topic: What ever Happened to the Consitution and what is the difference between the Con

[Don Karnage]

Kirk was ready for retirement, there's no doubt about that from dialogue in ST:VI.  The same seems to be the case for Scotty.  Chekov, in the books (not canon, but little of the "Lost Era" is) transfers to the Excelsior and serve's as Sulu's First Officer. Spock retires from Starfleet and joins the diplomatic corp.  McCoy apparently accepts a position in Starfleet Medical, I would probably put him as the Surgeon General of Starfleet at sometime prior to the events in Encounter at Farpoint.  The great mystery is what happens to Uhura, books place her in Starfleet Intelligence, but not much is mentioned of her, even in the books.

As for Constitutions, we do not know if the Republic is a Constitution, if it is, though I would imagine that it would have been refitted at some point in time, it's a training vessel, and if the equipment is a century old, it serves no purpose in that regard.  So I would imagine that every effort is made to keep the Republic up to at least early 24th century standard, but probably not as modern as the newest ships.

According the the Star Trek encyclopedia, the following ship are Constitution class :

Constellation  NCC-1017

Constitution   NCC-1700

Defiant          NCC-1764

Eagle            NCC-956

Endeavour    NCC-1895

Enterprise    NCC-1701

Essex          NCC-1672

Hood           NCC-1703

Intrepid       NCC-1831

Lexington     NCC-1709

Potemkin     NCC-1657

Republic      NCC-1371

Yorktown     NCC-1717

"The registry number of the Constitution (NCC-1700) is from one of Scotty's technical manual screen in "Space Seed" (TOS). Since the class ship has a 1700 number, it would seem only reasonable that other ships of the class would have higher, possibly even sequential numbers. Unfortunately, the U.S.S. Constellation ("The Doomsday Machine" (TOS), bore a much lower number, NCC-1017, (obliviously because it was a simple rearrangement of the decal sheet from the AMT Enterprise model kit) and the Republic was designated as NCC-1371. These data points suggest the Constitution-Class ship had registry numbers that only varied widely in range, but also could not be sequential. Modelmaker Greg Jein (through an amazingly complex and admittedly only barely logical means) manage up the various Constitution ships with the starship status chart in Commodore Stone's office in Starbase 11, seen in "Court Martial" (TOS).

Most of these registry numbers are from Greg's conjectural list, although several are from various Starfleet charts and readouts in Star Trek VI. Several of the Constitution-class ship listed above are not from any episode or movie, but are from the original Star Trek production office's starship list in Steven Whitfield's book, The Marking of Star Trek.

[FPF-DieHard]

Don't forget the most "infamous" Constitution class of all time . . .

[Corbomite]

(obliviously because it was a simple rearrangement of the decal sheet from the AMT Enterprise model kit)

I think that fact was oblivious to everyone...   

I'm sorry, but that was unintentionally very funny in that context. 

[Don Karnage]

The Enterprise  was launched in 2245 and was under the command of Captain Robert April, then by Captain Christofer Pike. From 2264 to 2269 the ship was under the command of Kirk. In 2270 it was refit TMP. In 2285 Kirk destroyed it to prevent Klingon for taking Pike would have command two five years mission before Kirk get command of it and that April have the first five years mission.

2250 Kirk was an ensign aboard the Republic. lather he serve aboard the Uss Faragut NCC-1647, Kirk was a lieutenant aboard in 2257. What happen after that we don't know. Seven years between have past, he was a lieutenant in 2257 and was a captain in 2264. So was he promoted captain, skipping the rank lieutenant commander and commander?

[Vipre]

How much time have pass between Star Trek 6 and Star Trek Generation with the Enterprise B Excelsior class refit?

Hardly any. VI happens during 2293, the B is launched the same year.

So how much time past between 1 and 2 that the refit is consider "old" to be use to train cadet in 2?

Roughly 12 years, closer to 14 in my opinion. The ship is 40 and her frame has had a rough life. It's not really age that's the issue it's the beating the frame takes during the life of the ship that determines how long it's serviceable...and in E's case she got beat to hell on a near "weekly" basis.

[FPF-DieHard]

Wasn't the Enterprise-A destroyed in the "The Ashes of Eden" book?  I know books aren't really canon, but it was written by Shatner.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Ashes_of_Eden

[Age]

Don't forget the most "infamous" Constitution class of all time . . .

How did you do that DieHard?

When it comes to names.I go by this

Sorry for the Necro but I don't want to make samll thread.

I just want to say I got them as to the reference of the name being a D2 player.

http://memory-beta.wikia.com/wiki/USS_Lafayette_%28NCC-1720%29

Quote

    he Lafayette was refit to the Enterprise-subclass specifications, outfitted as a command cruiser (CC), by the 2280s decade. The ship was easily modifiable with additional technology to become the advanced command cruiser (CC+). (ST video game: Starfleet Command)



Which is actually Warrior.

[Panzergranate]

Some of the Comstitution Class were rebuilds of earlier Horizon, Republic and other preceeding classes of cruisers to heavy cruiser specification (Constitution Class).

This is pretty much evident from the NCC numbers as anything preceeding the original prototype and class ship (CA 1700 Constitution) would have been constructed many years before. Any other explaination to this generates a causality issue with some ships being constructed years before the prototype and class ship left the shipyard.

McCoy mentions a long war betwen the Federation and the Klingon Empire that occured years before ST TOS. It is conceivable that many cruisers badly damaged during this war were rebuilt as Constitution Class heavy cruisers because (A) they needed serious rebuilding and (B) it saved Star Fleet a lot of money and (C) kept the accountants happy.

One more point is that the 1701-A Enterprise was rebuilt from the USS Levant (from another different heavy cruiser class), not the 1717 Yorktown.





 

[FPF-Tobin Dax]

Panz,
Where's your source? 
I'd love to read up on this, I've always thought it was the Yorktown.

http://memory-beta.wikia.com/wiki/USS_Enterprise_(NCC-1701-A)

[Panzergranate]

It was in a books I read (without buying) at a convention and I've seen it mentioned on a few websites.

Unfortunately non-canon also contradicts itself.

The general theme that Starfleet recycles a lot of starship hulls (Remember the ex-Miranda class heavy frigate USS Lantree being used as a supply ship (technically a sloop in naval terms because of the role) in TNG??) and the modular build some of the out of sequence NCC number could reasonably indictate that some ships were converted up to Constition class just as later in TMP some Constitution class ships were being upgraded to Enterprose class.

As the class ship USS Constitution would have first undergone space trials as NX-1700 before naval commisioning for active service as NCC-1700, the USS Eagle (listed above in a post) could not have originally been laid down as a Constitution class starship before the class ship..... so it must have been a previous Laurence Marvik design with so similar atributes that it could be converted and rebuilt to Constitution class specification. The same would go for the NCC 1017 Constellation, NCC 1371 Republic and any other Constitution class starship registered before the original class ship.

Its the only explaination that can cover for number irregularities that covers all the bases in non-canon to cover the NCC 1017 Constellation number cock up in canon.

The previous converted ships could have originally been cruisers converted to heavy cruiser status by the addition on more modern weaponry, sensors, engines, crew capacity, other technology, etc. to re-classify them as Constitution class.

It happens in navies around the world today..... change the rec room games consol from X-Box 360 to X-Box One and the ship may have to be reclassified because of the upgrade.

 

[knightstorm]

It was in a books I read (without buying) at a convention and I've seen it mentioned on a few websites.

Unfortunately non-canon also contradicts itself.

The general theme that Starfleet recycles a lot of starship hulls (Remember the ex-Miranda class heavy frigate USS Lantree being used as a supply ship (technically a sloop in naval terms because of the role) in TNG??) and the modular build some of the out of sequence NCC number could reasonably indictate that some ships were converted up to Constition class just as later in TMP some Constitution class ships were being upgraded to Enterprose class.

As the class ship USS Constitution would have first undergone space trials as NX-1700 before naval commisioning for active service as NCC-1700, the USS Eagle (listed above in a post) could not have originally been laid down as a Constitution class starship before the class ship..... so it must have been a previous Laurence Marvik design with so similar atributes that it could be converted and rebuilt to Constitution class specification. The same would go for the NCC 1017 Constellation, NCC 1371 Republic and any other Constitution class starship registered before the original class ship.

Its the only explaination that can cover for number irregularities that covers all the bases in non-canon to cover the NCC 1017 Constellation number cock up in canon.

The previous converted ships could have originally been cruisers converted to heavy cruiser status by the addition on more modern weaponry, sensors, engines, crew capacity, other technology, etc. to re-classify them as Constitution class.

It happens in navies around the world today..... change the rec room games consol from X-Box 360 to X-Box One and the ship may have to be reclassified because of the upgrade.

The Constitution class was not a rebuild of a previous class.  Starfleet registry numbers have neither ryme nor reason.  The Constellation was numbered 1017 because they used an amt Enterprise model kit, and were too cheap to fabricate new decals, so they rearranged the numbers.

[TAnimaL]

if this was facebook I'd give knightstorm's comment a big thumbs-up, although I'd quibble that it wasn't being "too cheap" but rather under pressure to deliver a TV show on budget and on time. As much fun as it is to speculate about the ships and their background, if it wasn't said in an episode, it's "fanon" opinion.

[Corbomite]

The Constitution class was not a rebuild of a previous class.  Starfleet registry numbers have neither ryme nor reason.  The Constellation was numbered 1017 because they used an amt Enterprise model kit, and were too cheap to fabricate new decals, so they rearranged the numbers.

If only they'd had the prescience to use 1710 they would have saved a lot of fanbois a lot of consternation. 

[Tulwar]

If only they'd had the prescience to use 1710 they would have saved a lot of fanbois a lot of consternation. 

At this point, I'd like to see every ST fan go off making their own ST universes, with their own sets of rules and histories.  Trying to explain whatever the continuity directors missed has been too much for a long time.  Since JJ Abrams made his films, ST has simply been broken.

In Greek mythology, Zeus' lightningbolts were made by Hephaestus.  Another legend, has them being made by Cyclopes.  The stories are mutually exclusive, yet both were true to the Ancient Greeks.  So be it with Star Trek.

[Nemesis]

In Greek mythology, Zeus' lightningbolts were made by Hephaestus.  Another legend, has them being made by Cyclopes.  The stories are mutually exclusive, yet both were true to the Ancient Greeks.  So be it with Star Trek.

It was just capitalism.  Hephaestus couldn't keep his profit up so he subcontracted to the low bidder (Cyclopes).

The NCC numbers could be different based on what shipyard makes them.  Shipyard A is making them starting at 1700 Shipyard B has had fewer contracts and starts at 1017 Shipyard C could be up in the 12000 range. 

[Lieutenant_Q]

Honestly, There's precedent for the ship just being rededicated.  (although it happened well after the fact and due to budget issues in the CGI department)  The Defiant NX-74205 was destroyed, and a couple episodes later a new Defiant class, the Sao-Paulo, was rededicated to be the Defiant, even gave the ship the Defiant's registry.   No reason that one of the first couple of Constitutions couldn't have been rededicated Constellation, with the Registry NCC-1071.  If the previous Constellation did something spectacular, like maybe sacrifice itself at Axanar to save the ship that would later become the Constellation while it was being built, would that be worthy of a re-dedication?

The whole thing with the Defiant's registry was of course, they were just about out of money in the CGI department and just used old stock photos of the old Defiant whenever they had to show her on the screen.

[Corbomite]

The whole thing with the Defiant's registry was of course, they were just about out of money in the CGI department and just used old stock photos of the old Defiant whenever they had to show her on the screen.

That and the fact that they had what, two episodes left in the series? I can see why they wouldn't sport for a whole new model and computer time.

[Age]

Honestly, There's precedent for the ship just being rededicated.  (although it happened well after the fact and due to budget issues in the CGI department)  The Defiant NX-74205 was destroyed, and a couple episodes later a new Defiant class, the Sao-Paulo, was rededicated to be the Defiant, even gave the ship the Defiant's registry.   No reason that one of the first couple of Constitutions couldn't have been rededicated Constellation, with the Registry NCC-1071.  If the previous Constellation did something spectacular, like maybe sacrifice itself at Axanar to save the ship that would later become the Constellation while it was being built, would that be worthy of a re-dedication?

The whole thing with the Defiant's registry was of course, they were just about out of money in the CGI department and just used old stock photos of the old Defiant whenever they had to show her on the screen.

This what happened with the Ent. A as it is originally the USS Yorktown 1717.

It would be realy a time for a whole new show and no more use of the name Enterprise time to retire the name.

[Tulwar]

TOS was never supposed to make complete sense.  They came up with "stardates" just to make sure that no one could pin down the actual time of the series.  How could ship serial numbers be any better?

[Czar Mohab]

I'd forgotten that this thread was in existence until now. So much passion behind each posting in this thread. Such conviction.

I missed you guys. 

The Czar