Topic: What ever Happened to the Consitution and what is the difference between the Con

[Corbomite]

When did Nurse Chapel was "attracted" to Spock in TOS?

She first expressed her feelings in the episode "The Naked Time".

[Age]

Don can keep it on topic.

[FPF-DieHard]

After reading much of this thread . . . I gotta say I don't think you can say Star Trek "cannon" with the  " ..."

Just follow SFB, it makes more sense

[knightstorm]

After reading much of this thread . . . I gotta say I don't think you can say Star Trek "cannon" with the  " ..."

Just follow SFB, it makes more sense

Yeah, the feds name ships after the first Grand Wizard of the KKK.

[FPF-DieHard]

After reading much of this thread . . . I gotta say I don't think you can say Star Trek "cannon" with the  " ..."

Just follow SFB, it makes more sense

Yeah, the feds name ships after the first Grand Wizard of the KKK.

LOLz . . . us naming the Federation Flagship (a BB) the USS Strom Trumond had nothing to do with SFB, the strategy behind picking a repugnant name is to make people want to kill you and be overly aggressive.  Why else would I fly the USS Bill Clinton?

Anywhoo . . . the SFB explanation as to what happened to the Constitution class . . .  Keeping in mind that this is my own retarded way of reconciling SFB and Trek history (NOT cannon regarding ships, just events).  This isn't tough to do as there really isn't much that conflict.   

The Early TOS stuff lines up fine.  First contact with the Gorns, Organian treaty, etc . . .

ST TMP takes place in 2271 . . . right before the start of the General War . . . right before the Organians disappear . . . also helps explain why the Feds got the sh*t kicked out of them for a few years in the General War.

Late 2271 . . . Organians disappear, Klingons invade the Federation.

TWOK takes place in 2285 . . . After the GW was concluded.  It's never explained on screen what happened during those years (books smooks, they hold as much "cannon" weight as one of my bowel movements).  It makes total sense that Kirk and the Enterprise fought in that war, on the Klingon front, the ship being refited a few times and by TWOK was a CX.

ST3, 4, and 5, and concluded by like 2287?   Giving time for one more 5 year mission before ST6 in 2292.

ISC "conquest" was like 2285ish to 2292ish . . . but really didn't really involve the Federation.  At that point they'd probably be happy to sit back, f*ck holo-hookers, drink root beer, and like some Frogs patrol their borders for them.

ST:6 took place 2292 and ends with formal peace and a pseudo alliance with the Federation and Klingons.

The Andro wars happen after that, at that time though Kirk is out of the picture.

So . . . back on topic . . . WTF happened to the Constitution class? 

The Federation has X number of Shipyards capable of cranking out Heavy Cruiser hulls.  As per F&E they could crank out 4 Heavy Cruiser hulls per year at full production.  The Constitution hull (F-CA through F-CX) would have been standard in thous shipyards until something better came along.  Once we get into the 2290s and the bugs are kicked out of the Excelsior class (doesn't really jive with SFC/SFB but I've taken so many liberties already so what's a few more?) that class would be built in those shipyards.

So simply it was replaced.  The ones in service would stay in service for a long time as these ships were meant to last forever.  There would be refits, etc . . . but no new Connies would have been built after the 2290s.

TL:DR:  Just make sh*t up, there is no ST "cannon" as none of the writers bothered to keep track of this mess.

[Corbomite]

That makes no sense DH. If TWOK happened in 2285, then Space Seed had to happen in 2270 since Kirk specifically stated "There's a man out there who I haven't seen in fifteen years who is trying to kill me." TMP couldn't have happened in 2271 if the Enterprise was still on its five year mission.

[knightstorm]

SFB lists one of the BCFs as being named USS Nathan Bedford Forrest.  Forrest was a confederate general during the civil war.  When black soldiers surrendered at Fort Pillow, he had them massacred.  After the war, he became the first Grand Wizard of the KKK.

[FPF-DieHard]

That makes no sense DH.

Very little in Trek Makes sense.  It's all over the place.

If TWOK happened in 2285, then Space Seed had to happen in 2270 since Kirk specifically stated "There's a man out there who I haven't seen in fifteen years who is trying to kill me." TMP couldn't have happened in 2271 if the Enterprise was still on its five year mission.

TMP did take place in 2271.  TWOK did take place in 2285.

Space seed was more like 25 years before TWOK.  Just let that 15 years thing slide, this is Trek there are far bigger inconsistencies you need to accept.

[FPF-DieHard]

SFB lists one of the BCFs as being named USS Nathan Bedford Forrest.  Forrest was a confederate general during the civil war.  When black soldiers surrendered at Fort Pillow, he had them massacred.  After the war, he became the first Grand Wizard of the KKK.

Nice, I'm sure you can find some more horrible people if you check the full OoB on ADB's site.

[Corbomite]

LOL!! DH the bible thumper!   

[FPF-DieHard]

What I did find as yet another Trek bit of retardation . . . you do not see a Connie after ST6 anywhere in the shows or movies.  Even in those insane thousand ship battles in DS9.

Star Trek Online, which is supposed to take place 30 years after Nemesis still has Constitution class ships available.  Is this pandering to fanbois?  Probably.

Off topic:  I just started messing around in STO . . . what a stupid game yet it's SO pretty.  The Sector navigation is great though, in my "dream" game that's how moving around at warp would work.

[FPF-DieHard]

There's a lot I like. I loved designing my uniforms. I wish I could do more on the bridge :-/
The planets seem cool, if they'd open up a place to mod; we would be able to create more sceneries.
What I despise is the ship action. Do I really need all those glows and lights flashing for ever button I press. Ehh. Annoying.

There's far more wrong than their is right with STO.  If Trek wasn't in the title there's now way it'd be alive.

But Sector navigation is wonderful.

[knightstorm]

SFB lists one of the BCFs as being named USS Nathan Bedford Forrest.  Forrest was a confederate general during the civil war.  When black soldiers surrendered at Fort Pillow, he had them massacred.  After the war, he became the first Grand Wizard of the KKK.

Nice, I'm sure you can find some more horrible people if you check the full OoB on ADB's site.

There's also a USS Regis Philban.

[Age]

What I did find as yet another Trek bit of retardation . . . you do not see a Connie after ST6 anywhere in the shows or movies.  Even in those insane thousand ship battles in DS9.

Star Trek Online, which is supposed to take place 30 years after Nemesis still has Constitution class ships available.  Is this pandering to fanbois?  Probably.

Off topic:  I just started messing around in STO . . . what a stupid game yet it's SO pretty.  The Sector navigation is great though, in my "dream" game that's how moving around at warp would work.

Yeah the Constitutions went on to serve much past 2365 if you look at this
 http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Starships_at_Wolf_359?file=USS_Melbourne_wreckage%252C_BoBW.jpg#Starships_at_Wolf_359   check the bottom.

The General War has nothing to do with the real world of Trek.That is ADB soo the dates are as they are for the real Trek world.you know I ma more of true Trek fan but have respect for SFB more SFC tho.I like the way Chris Jones does it for Legacey shiplist.

I would say that most Const. which no one knows the exact number that were built as the Defiant is 1764.This would indicate that more were produced before the original 12.

When it comes to the names I take SFC over all else.When it comes to Uniforms I like TOS,ST 2/6 and the Black and Grey as shown in first Contact.

When it comes to STO they do what is limited within the license agreement and appeal the game towards a much younger fan base.It is why they won't make some of the older ship up to T5 spec.

I already talked about the names as to where they came from.It is all on SFC.net.

But please lets stick more of the canon as if it hasn't been butchered enough.

[Javora]

The only things I think of as Cannon in Star Trek beyond the cast/crew is Red Shirts and Mini Skirts...

[FPF-DieHard]

LOLz . . .

THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS CANNON TREK.

Each writer on each show made stuff up as they went along and the inconsistencies are all over the place.

[Corbomite]

You know I was going to correct you since you keep using "cannon" instead of the proper "canon", but I realized that they actually are one in the same thing when it comes to ST. Both have flaws and inconsistancies that cause them to blow apart and destroy everything around them when filled with too much hot expanding gas after being stuffed too full of explosive things.

[knightstorm]

LOLz . . .

THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS CANNON TREK.

Each writer on each show made stuff up as they went along and the inconsistencies are all over the place.

Writers have generally tried to stay faithful to what came before.  Trek has relatively few inconsistencies for something that was in almost continuous production for over 30 years.

[Don Karnage]

ST1 the Enterprise was refit. In star trek 2 the enterprise was a school ship because it was "old". So how much time past between 1 and 2 that the refit is consider "old" to be use to train cadet in 2? Between 2 and 3 a few days past since the enterprise return to the star base and was told that the enterprise was 20 years old? But the ship should be more no?

We will have to bring back G.R. to make thing strait so we can make sense of the history of the Constitution class.

The 12 originals where created when? When and how many more where build?

Do they still have original (none TMP) ship somewhere or did they refit them all. Well those who where not lost?

In Star Trek 3 when the return to space dock, the Excelsior was ready for its try out. So the new class of ship was introduce. Is the Excelsior a prototype since it was the only ship of its class? In Star Trek 4 at the end, they give Kirk a new ship, the Enterprise A. A refit constitution. Just before we see the Enterprise A, the flew in front of the Excelsior. So that mean the fix what Scotty did to it and was ready to replace the Constitution class?

How much time have pass between Star Trek 6 and Star Trek Generation with the Enterprise B Excelsior class refit?

Why not give command of a Excelsior class to Kirk after decommissioning the Enterprise A?

What happen to the crew of the Enterprise? Sulu is a captain, but the rest? Chekof is what now a commander? Scotty was retiring ? Hurrura, Mc coy, ?

[Lieutenant_Q]

Kirk was ready for retirement, there's no doubt about that from dialogue in ST:VI.  The same seems to be the case for Scotty.  Chekov, in the books (not canon, but little of the "Lost Era" is) transfers to the Excelsior and serve's as Sulu's First Officer. Spock retires from Starfleet and joins the diplomatic corp.  McCoy apparently accepts a position in Starfleet Medical, I would probably put him as the Surgeon General of Starfleet at sometime prior to the events in Encounter at Farpoint.  The great mystery is what happens to Uhura, books place her in Starfleet Intelligence, but not much is mentioned of her, even in the books.

As for Constitutions, we do not know if the Republic is a Constitution, if it is, though I would imagine that it would have been refitted at some point in time, it's a training vessel, and if the equipment is a century old, it serves no purpose in that regard.  So I would imagine that every effort is made to keep the Republic up to at least early 24th century standard, but probably not as modern as the newest ships.