Topic: So anyone still play?

[Corbomite]

It was the episode where the planet was fighting a computerized war, and the Enterprise had been marked as a casualty.  When they refused to self destruct, the race fired on the Enterprise, and the ship couldn't fire back because its shields were up.

Ahh, well then I see your confusion. Scotty never said that they couldn't fire with the shields up. What he said was:

"We can't fire full  phasers with our screens up, and we can't lower our screens with their disruptors on us. Of course, I could treat them to a few dozen photon torpedoes."


Which I take to mean that with full power to the deflectors to ward off the planetary assault, the phasers would have less power and would be unable to dent the planet's defenses, whereas the photons would have no problem since they are self powered.

Or, this was an early episode before it had been decided that impulse would solely be a method of sublight propulsion.

Well, as a viewer, I have to fill the gaps they leave out due to that factor if I wish to inhabit their universe enough to buy it.

[Captain Adam]

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[Corbomite]

The Asteroid was pulled into the wormhole with them, it was in their warp field, therefore they could fire at it.

In their warp field? From trillions of miles away? Remember it took forever to get to the point where they saw the rock, targeted it and then fired. Seriously, it was like a five minute sequence. Even at warp one that rock had to be about a solar system away when they went to warp. Since there are aboslutely no experts on earth that could rationally discuss the effects of a warp field on a self generated wormhole and whether or not said wormhole would in some way amplify the warp field to the size of a solar system, I'm not even going to go there.

[Lieutenant_Q]

How else do you explain the line from Ilia?  "Unidentified small object has been pulled into the wormhole with us, directly ahead!"  As for time, it took almost three of those minutes just for this part of it:

Kirk: "Time to Impact?"
Ilia: "Twenty Seconds..."
Kirk: "Mr. Chekov, Stand by on Phasers..."

....

Decker: "Fire Torpedo!"
Chekov: "....Torpedo Away!" (Chekov said something at the beginning of this, but after watching it repeatedly, I still don't quite know what he said)
Ilia: "Four...." (still in the countdown)

[Corbomite]

Pulled in to the wormhole, yes I agree, but I don't see how that wormhole equates to warp field even if the imbalance in the field created and is sustaining that wormhole. In any case the rock wasn't moving even if it was in a warp field, unless you are saying that it was being pulled along?

[Nemesis]

That's federation writing on the probe.
schematics/starfleet_probes.htm[/url]

This site usually is very good with canon sources. Don't quote it or me but the class 8 probe is suppose to be a modified photon. Don't tell at me if I'm wrong. Lol

Adam

Been a long time since I watched any TNG.  The probe came from a Federation Starbase so it was a Federation probe (my mistake).  Since there was an absolute minimum of space not occupied by the passenger the Feds must have been using Normans walnut sized warp drives.  Warp 9 capable probe over interstellar distances.  It was 2 meters long. 

[Lieutenant_Q]

Well, given that the engine imbalance created the wormhole, its probably safe to assume that their warp field improperly formed and that the wormhole WAS their warp field.

[Corbomite]

That still doesn't mean that the rock was moving at all. All we know is that it was apparently moving slower than the ship and that we have no idea what the relative speed of the ship to the rock was.

[Lieutenant_Q]

No, the rock certainly wasn't moving as fast as the Enterprise was, otherwise there wouldn't have been any risk of collision.  I maintain that since it was in the wormhole, it was in the Enterprise's mis-formed Warp Field, as you say, being dragged along for the ride.  It's not an example of Warp firing on non-warp.

From a strategic standpoint, if it was possible for Warp to fire on non-warp, it makes defensive scenarios an absolute nightmare.  How are you going to defend a planet or installation from an attack if the enemy fleet doesn't even have to slow down to engage your defenders?  Just have a fleet fire as many torpedoes as they can in that narrow window of at most a couple of seconds and watch the planet or station be bombarded with no chance of retaliation.

[Corbomite]

Sensors seem to go light years instantly and report in real time (explain that one! ), so it is hard to surprise attack an advanced system. I agree hitting anything, even for the attackers, would be difficult, but given the distances involved and the implied range of the weapons and computer assistance, not impossible.

[TAnimaL]

BTW.  I still haven't found my copy of that magazine...

if you hadn't noticed, I was quoting directly from that magazine,  pulled right off my shelf, so don't bother.

I'm still reeling from seeing this phaser/photorp, sublight/warp combat go on and on, only to spill right into the TMP wormhole AND Romulan "impulse" debates... LMFAO. All this "citing" episodes and "canon/non-canon tech manuals" is just obscuring the one thing we actually all agree on here - that ST has a LOT of contradictions in its technology. So, you'll usually find something in ST that will back up whatever precept you're putting forward.

Going back a few entries, for the record, I think knighstorm is more right than Corbomite is (that TOS was rather inconsistent weapon/tech wise) but I'm sure Corbo will probably find an example of someone in DS9 firing phasers at warp or something; and while I enjoy throwing my knowledge of  trek around as much as the rest of you do, I'm still left wondering... what is really being asked here? ABout still playing this game? Is this a discussion about what sort of "new" weapons that could be add to SFC:CE if it becomes possible? Is this a list of what we don't like about EAW, or OP, or CE? 'Cause, to me, "we" lost our way in the forest seeing only trees a few months back on this thread.

[Corbomite]

We let Age side track us and just went with it. Of course TOS is more inconsistant than TMP-TNG stuff. They had ten years of fans asking questions and retconning everything before the movies started. By then they knew to pay better attention, but never let it get in the way of plot, which turned out to be a double edged sword as it created its own problems when they would stray from the "path".

[Captain Adam]

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[Age]

Missiles are chemically fueled warheads that travel well under impluse speeds.That any phaser or even laser could shoot them down.

Age, where did you come up with this conclusion?
I just want to understand where you are coming from. What possess you to think you can redefine someone else's artistic vision, clearly someone from the Trek World made it this way bc that's what they believed a photon torpedo was to be. They even stated that it could travel warp speeds. Even the Klingon/federation emissary traveled in a photon torpedo tube at warp in one of the episodes. I'm still fuzzy about what you are trying to say. Can you explain it again.

Because they are like sidwinder on a  F18 Hornet.What I am trying to say is that photons travel at warp speeds missles don't as phaser can't fired at warp.The missles you saw were fired from an asteroid.

I don't kmnd me asking but where did you and knightstrom come from as I never seen you post a few years ago and I know everyone in Trek gaming.

@knightstrom

A missile is a projectile that moves through air or space.  There is no speed limit on what can be considered a missile.  Photon torpedoes are guided missiles.

There is a speed limit on missles as they no more that a small version of a rocket.

[Captain Adam]

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[Nemesis]

Of course TOS is more inconsistant than TMP-TNG stuff. They had ten years of fans asking questions and retconning everything before the movies started. By then they knew to pay better attention, but never let it get in the way of plot, which turned out to be a double edged sword as it created its own problems when they would stray from the "path".

Different eras.  in the TOS era what TV show had a consistent on going story line?  Soap operas.  By TNG others had been added (BSG for example).  By Enterprise even more like Stargate and Babylon 5, Firefly.

[knightstorm]

Missiles are chemically fueled warheads that travel well under impluse speeds.That any phaser or even laser could shoot them down.

Age, where did you come up with this conclusion?
I just want to understand where you are coming from. What possess you to think you can redefine someone else's artistic vision, clearly someone from the Trek World made it this way bc that's what they believed a photon torpedo was to be. They even stated that it could travel warp speeds. Even the Klingon/federation emissary traveled in a photon torpedo tube at warp in one of the episodes. I'm still fuzzy about what you are trying to say. Can you explain it again.

Because they are like sidwinder on a  F18 Hornet.What I am trying to say is that photons travel at warp speeds missles don't as phaser can't fired at warp.The missles you saw were fired from an asteroid.

I don't kmnd me asking but where did you and knightstrom come from as I never seen you post a few years ago and I know everyone in Trek gaming.

@knightstrom

A missile is a projectile that moves through air or space.  There is no speed limit on what can be considered a missile.  Photon torpedoes are guided missiles.

There is a speed limit on missles as they no more that a small version of a rocket.

First off, there is no speed limit on missiles, yes a sidewinder is a missile, but so is the rock I throw at someone, or a photon.  Also, speed 31 in SFC is supposed to be around warp 3 Corbo, or Tanimal can probably give you the speciics.

Finally, I don't know how where I come from is relevant to this debate but I'll bite.  I was regurgitated by a giant sewer gator in 1982, I started playing SFC in single player around 2001, but I really didn't get into multiplayer gaming until 2006, which is when I joined the community.  I subsequently proclaimed myself Norton II Emperor of the United States and Protector of Mexico around 2010.

[Corbomite]

Different eras.  in the TOS era what TV show had a consistent on going story line?  Soap operas.  By TNG others had been added (BSG for example).  By Enterprise even more like Stargate and Babylon 5, Firefly.

No Star Trek show had a consistant on going storyline until DS9 began emulating B5. In the '60's, Lost in Space had an on going storyline, sidetracked quite a bit, but always returned to consistantly.

[Age]

Missiles are chemically fueled warheads that travel well under impluse speeds.That any phaser or even laser could shoot them down.

Age, where did you come up with this conclusion?
I just want to understand where you are coming from. What possess you to think you can redefine someone else's artistic vision, clearly someone from the Trek World made it this way bc that's what they believed a photon torpedo was to be. They even stated that it could travel warp speeds. Even the Klingon/federation emissary traveled in a photon torpedo tube at warp in one of the episodes. I'm still fuzzy about what you are trying to say. Can you explain it again.

Because they are like sidwinder on a  F18 Hornet.What I am trying to say is that photons travel at warp speeds missles don't as phaser can't fired at warp.The missles you saw were fired from an asteroid.

I don't kmnd me asking but where did you and knightstrom come from as I never seen you post a few years ago and I know everyone in Trek gaming.

@knightstrom

A missile is a projectile that moves through air or space.  There is no speed limit on what can be considered a missile.  Photon torpedoes are guided missiles.

There is a speed limit on missles as they no more that a small version of a rocket.

First off, there is no speed limit on missiles, yes a sidewinder is a missile,

There are top speed limits on a missle.
http://www.bga-aeroweb.com/Defense/Sidewinder.html
Sidewinder supersonic is its top speed much like that of a car.

The Asteroid was pulled into the wormhole with them, it was in their warp field, therefore they could fire at it.

That was in TMP which they fire a torpedo as the phaser were tied into the warp core.They would have to come out of warp to fire phasers.

OK Adam.

[knightstorm]

Missiles are chemically fueled warheads that travel well under impluse speeds.That any phaser or even laser could shoot them down.

Age, where did you come up with this conclusion?
I just want to understand where you are coming from. What possess you to think you can redefine someone else's artistic vision, clearly someone from the Trek World made it this way bc that's what they believed a photon torpedo was to be. They even stated that it could travel warp speeds. Even the Klingon/federation emissary traveled in a photon torpedo tube at warp in one of the episodes. I'm still fuzzy about what you are trying to say. Can you explain it again.

Because they are like sidwinder on a  F18 Hornet.What I am trying to say is that photons travel at warp speeds missles don't as phaser can't fired at warp.The missles you saw were fired from an asteroid.

I don't kmnd me asking but where did you and knightstrom come from as I never seen you post a few years ago and I know everyone in Trek gaming.

@knightstrom

A missile is a projectile that moves through air or space.  There is no speed limit on what can be considered a missile.  Photon torpedoes are guided missiles.

There is a speed limit on missles as they no more that a small version of a rocket.

First off, there is no speed limit on missiles, yes a sidewinder is a missile,

There are top speed limits on a missle.
http://www.bga-aeroweb.com/Defense/Sidewinder.html
Sidewinder supersonic is its top speed much like that of a car.

I meant there are no speed limits to what can be considered a missile.  You're putting down arbitrary rules because you don't want to call photon torpedoes missiles.