Topic: So anyone still play?

[knightstorm]

LOL, I'm sure you're right Captain Adam...

Since you've got no reference/link, and if we were reading the same ST mags in the 90s Knightstorm, I willing to bet you're mis-remebering. The TNG manual makes it a point that photorps can't make the jump to warp on their own, but they are indeed the weapon to use while at warp, as opposed to phasers, which are "sublight" (technically, the beam moves at c, so neither "sub" or "FTL").

True, gameplay should trump media viewing for playing a game; I think we all just wish a "game" can do what we "see" in the media.

Thanks for the tip Captain Adam; I had forgotten about the Daystrom Institute site. I'm lovin' it!

Those technical manuals aren't canon either, but they're more authoritative than other sources, because of who's writing them, but the same could be said about that magazine article.  I'm going to have to look, but I might still have it packed away somewhere.  These magazines were high quality, and I didn't get many of them since they were over $7 per issue which was a bit over budget for a high school student to spend on a magazine in the late 90s.  That said, there were episodes where forward phasers were fired by ships moving at warp.

It is true that they show both photons and phasers firing a warp speeds (right from the very first production episode of TOS where they destroy the cube in The Corbomite Maneuver at warp three) and that they have been inconsistant about it as they made it up and as plots required clever fixes to problems to move along. I'll just use their own technobabble approach and say that the phasing part in "phaser" that blends plasma into a laser also phases the beam partly into a sub-space domain that allows it to seem to go FTL when at warp due to the relativistic speed differential. As for photons; since they have a hard candy coating encasing all that sweet goodness, it isn't hard to assume that they fit them with small warp boosters that allow them to maintain a high warp speed (approaching the assigned limit of warp ten set in TNG before achieving trans-warp).

We're really arguing about non canon tech sources published by the production staff.  They don't need clever treknobabble to fix things, because these limitations were never explicitly stated in canon.

[TAnimaL]

Those technical manuals aren't canon either, but they're more authoritative than other sources, because of who's writing them, but the same could be said about that magazine article.  I'm going to have to look, but I might still have it packed away somewhere.  These magazines were high quality, and I didn't get many of them since they were over $7 per issue which was a bit over budget for a high school student to spend on a magazine in the late 90s.

Like I said, I believe you've misremebered those mags, since they say the same thing as those manuals.

Star Trek -The Magazine. Volume 1, issue 3, p.60:
"The photon torpedo was developed as a tactical weapon that could be used while a starship travelled at warp - a situation in which phasers are useless."

It's a retcon to the early TOS, but it's beome the accepted norm in ST.

[Corbomite]

Like I said, I believe you've misremebered those mags, since they say the same thing as those manuals.

Star Trek -The Magazine. Volume 1, issue 3, p.60:
"The photon torpedo was developed as a tactical weapon that could be used while a starship travelled at warp - a situation in which phasers are useless."

It's a retcon to the early TOS, but it's beome the accepted norm in ST.

Balderdash. In one of the very last episodes of the second season, The Ultimate Computer, when both phasers and photons had been both firmly established, the Enterprise fires both weapons at speeds of warp four and greater.

[OlBuzzard]

[/plops down in easy chair]

anyone care for some pop corn ?

 

[Captain Adam]

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[Lieutenant_Q]

I was really hoping that, during the Enterprise Season 1 Episode: Fallen Hero, when Lt. Reed stated that they couldn't fire the Phase Cannons at Warp, that we were going to get an explanation that would have put this issue to bed once and for all.  Unfortunately, all we got was: It would disrupt the warp field (plot device) and that he'd have the problem fixed soon enough (leaving it open so that someone else could write a script, possibly even the next episode, where they worked just fine at warp).

Technically, (And I'm throwing out anything pre-TMP as the concept of Warp changes with the advent of The Motion Picture.  TOS and TAS had starships maneuvering and fighting while at warp, almost all the time, anytime they had to fight at sublight, it was stated that they were clearly at a disadvantage because of it)  The only way to have combat at Warp is if the ships involved in the fighting share a Warp Field.  At which point, since they are in the same area of subspace, they can exchange fire with each other as if they were at sub-light.  With all the maneuvering restrictions of being at warp.  I can't think of a single instance (Outside of SFC3) where a ship at warp, exchanged fire with a ship at sub-light after the Warp Concept change.  Mostly because of the logic of trying to hit something at FTL speeds leaves a firing window of only a few milliseconds.

[Corbomite]

Technically, (And I'm throwing out anything pre-TMP as the concept of Warp changes with the advent of The Motion Picture.  TOS and TAS had starships maneuvering and fighting while at warp, almost all the time, anytime they had to fight at sublight, it was stated that they were clearly at a disadvantage because of it)  The only way to have combat at Warp is if the ships involved in the fighting share a Warp Field.  At which point, since they are in the same area of subspace, they can exchange fire with each other as if they were at sub-light.  With all the maneuvering restrictions of being at warp.  I can't think of a single instance (Outside of SFC3) where a ship at warp, exchanged fire with a ship at sub-light after the Warp Concept change.  Mostly because of the logic of trying to hit something at FTL speeds leaves a firing window of only a few milliseconds.

Ermmm,  While it wasn't a ship, in TMP they fired a photon at an asteroid while in the wormhole caused by the engine imbalance near the start of the movie. They were definitely at warp (even though it was a warped warp) and I'm pretty sure asteroids don't move at FTL speeds.

[Nemesis]

Even the Klingon/federation emissary traveled in a photon torpedo tube at warp in one of the episodes. I'm still fuzzy about what you are trying to say. Can you explain it again.

If you are referring to Worfs girl friend she traveled in a probe. 

[Captain Adam]

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[Nemesis]

Yes but aren't the casing identical.
Don't they even state several times that you can remove the internal mechanisms and alter it to be uses as weapons or sensor eq. Or in that case a make shift environmental unit for her to travel.

I would doubt that the casing of a Klingon probe was the same as that of a Federation photon torpedo.

Consider the minimum space required for K'Ehleyr (6' 1/2" in height) plus life support plus propulsion.  Much bigger than the expected size of a photon torp. 

[knightstorm]

Those technical manuals aren't canon either, but they're more authoritative than other sources, because of who's writing them, but the same could be said about that magazine article.  I'm going to have to look, but I might still have it packed away somewhere.  These magazines were high quality, and I didn't get many of them since they were over $7 per issue which was a bit over budget for a high school student to spend on a magazine in the late 90s.

Like I said, I believe you've misremebered those mags, since they say the same thing as those manuals.

Star Trek -The Magazine. Volume 1, issue 3, p.60:
"The photon torpedo was developed as a tactical weapon that could be used while a starship travelled at warp - a situation in which phasers are useless."

It's a retcon to the early TOS, but it's beome the accepted norm in ST.

Phasers and other beam weapons were fired during warp during the course of both Voyager and Enterprise.  I'm not sure, but I think its also happened during DS9.

BTW.  I still haven't found my copy of that magazine, but I found a different issue which has an interview with Erik Bethke about the upcoming SFC1.  I remember reading it at the time, and thinking the game sounded odd, and that I probably wouldn't want to play it.

[Nemesis]

Corbomite maneuver TOS during warp reverse fired at the buoy with phasers.

[Corbomite]

Lol Nem! I sighted that example about ten posts ago.

[Nemesis]

Lol Nem! I sighted that example about ten posts ago.

So you have independent confirmation. 

[knightstorm]

We're talking TNG and later.  TOS made less effort towards consistency as far as technology was concerned.

[Corbomite]

I don't see any inconsistancies on this point. They have fired at warp and they have fired at impulse in just about every incarnation. It doesn't matter what the fans, manuals or "actual scientists" say. It's the frickin' 23rd-24th century; if you see it on screen, they have figured out a way to do it even if you can't!

[knightstorm]

Yeah, and they also did an episode where they made a big to do about the Enterprise not being able to fire with its shields up, and lets not forget the Romulan Bird of Prey's "power is simple impulse."

[Corbomite]

Yeah, and they also did an episode where they made a big to do about the Enterprise not being able to fire with its shields up,

When did they do that?

and lets not forget the Romulan Bird of Prey's "power is simple impulse."

I always assumed that it meant that they were running on simple impulse at that time due to the cost of the cloak and the plasma torpedo. Realistically, there is no way they could have made it into deep space on impulse alone. The Romulans probably had a limited warp ability that they only used to get from place to place and when confronted by a ship with a superior ability on that regard, the Romulan commander tried to use the advantages that the situation presented since he knew he couldn't out run the Enterprise as he was low on fuel.

[knightstorm]

Yeah, and they also did an episode where they made a big to do about the Enterprise not being able to fire with its shields up,

When did they do that?

It was the episode where the planet was fighting a computerized war, and the Enterprise had been marked as a casualty.  When they refused to self destruct, the race fired on the Enterprise, and the ship couldn't fire back because its shields were up.

I always assumed that it meant that they were running on simple impulse at that time due to the cost of the cloak and the plasma torpedo. Realistically, there is no way they could have made it into deep space on impulse alone. The Romulans probably had a limited warp ability that they only used to get from place to place and when confronted by a ship with a superior ability on that regard, the Romulan commander tried to use the advantages that the situation presented since he knew he couldn't out run the Enterprise as he was low on fuel.

Or, this was an early episode before it had been decided that impulse would solely be a method of sublight propulsion.

[Lieutenant_Q]

Technically, (And I'm throwing out anything pre-TMP as the concept of Warp changes with the advent of The Motion Picture.  TOS and TAS had starships maneuvering and fighting while at warp, almost all the time, anytime they had to fight at sublight, it was stated that they were clearly at a disadvantage because of it)  The only way to have combat at Warp is if the ships involved in the fighting share a Warp Field.  At which point, since they are in the same area of subspace, they can exchange fire with each other as if they were at sub-light.  With all the maneuvering restrictions of being at warp.  I can't think of a single instance (Outside of SFC3) where a ship at warp, exchanged fire with a ship at sub-light after the Warp Concept change.  Mostly because of the logic of trying to hit something at FTL speeds leaves a firing window of only a few milliseconds.

Ermmm,  While it wasn't a ship, in TMP they fired a photon at an asteroid while in the wormhole caused by the engine imbalance near the start of the movie. They were definitely at warp (even though it was a warped warp) and I'm pretty sure asteroids don't move at FTL speeds.

The Asteroid was pulled into the wormhole with them, it was in their warp field, therefore they could fire at it.