Topic: So anyone still play?

[OlBuzzard]

For me the SFB rule set was its greatest strength it had more years of play testing than any complex computer game ever has had or will have.  There was more balance outside of the ISC and X-Ships than any other game that begins to rival its complexity. 

Are there places where SFB went wrong?  Absolutely.  Creating weapons whose features were designed to give an over whelming advantage against their enemy (Hydran Hellbore vs Early Klingons).  Designing ships to avoid the DAC issue with forward hull by using central hull is another (there was no real reason Hydrans shouldn't have had fore and aft hull).  Some are perfectly legitimate like developing ADD, dogfight drones and strengthening those rear shields to defend better vs Hellbore for example.

IMHO there were some balance issues ...  (as you have pointed out) ..  BUT nothing that could not be fixed.  Unfortunately some folks were never satisfied unless some of those items were basically nerfed.  Let me hasten to say that I really would prefer to not go there out of respect to everyone here and out of respect to where this thread started.  Let's just say that I agree with you in some areas! 
However, I still love the "X" ships !     One of my favorite designs was a modified CLC that was done for a MOD.  I loved the extra Gatling phasers on it... it was a great ship to fly wing in.

I have to say . . . one of the best moment in SFC was when you and your son left.

Ahhh ...  your way or the highway ...  eh Diehard !

[Corbomite]

Ahhh ...  your way or the highway ...  eh Diehard !

Oh, come on now Buzzy, you have to admit that Nannerslug was just as stubborn in his own way. IIRC you ended up smoothing out more than one skirmish that he sort of let escalate out of hand.

[OlBuzzard]

Ahhh ...  your way or the highway ...  eh Diehard !

Oh, come on now Buzzy, you have to admit that Nannerslug was just as stubborn in his own way. IIRC you ended up smoothing out more than one skirmish that he sort of let escalate out of hand.

shhhh  ... don't let that out ..  you'll ruin my reputation  !

 

Truth is ... I made my own share of mistakes back then.  I wanted to so make a difference in the right way...  but flatly screwed up!  Part of that was due to listening to entirely too many who were as opposite as night and day!  Part of it was being such a gullible nooooob ...  BIG TIME !  And yes ...  my son led me into a trap or two as a result of my total lack of understanding of the game itself ...  let alone of an entire community.

However, in the end  as things began to erode away ..  I saw that it was time to leave.  In my old age I understand a lot more.  My desire is to find the best way I can serve and do that to the best of my ability.  In the case of the OP game I did have some contact with a member of the original development team, though more indirect ... and I understand better why certain things were done the way that they were.  NO ... the game was not perfect.  Yes ... going to either extreme was not in the best interest for the over all game.  (though sometimes that meant giving up a few things that I thoughtwere a must  in order to have what I thought was a better, more balanced game.

In short ...  I took the time to learn a few things from my mistakes.   LOL !
The OP game was some of the best times we had...  and I wish there was a way to see another one come along !
At any rate ...  I'll still keep in touch!  And yes!  I'm still messin' around with a few more models !

[Nemesis]

I have to say . . . one of the best moment in SFC was when you and your son left.

No need for that DieHard.    Hint 

[Captain Adam]

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[OlBuzzard]

Holy moly. Nannerslug's your son. Had no idea. Yup I remember his mods. It was him and Chris Jones that made me so passionate about SFC. I wish we could do more.

Adam

hehehe ... yup !  We did manage to do a few small things right.  I had a little input on some of the ship lists, some other minor items not worth mentioning ... and I wrote the stories for the GAW MOD.

Somewhere around here I have the "Dynageeser" award ...  the oldest member playing SFC !   LOL !

I still remember the prize too !  a 1957 Corvette ...  Unfortunately the only thing left was one of the handles ...
 
I will NEVER forget that one !

[TopMoxie]

I'll play, I would prefer Sfc3 but OP is good

[Captain Adam]

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[Nemesis]

There was one other game that did use SFB rules but they were not authorized to do so and were forced off the market.  Warp Factor, written in interpreted basic for the original PC.  I had it then and have the source code still.  I'd be tempted to try and upgrade it to the more modern FreeBasic if I had the skills. 

[Captain Adam]

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[Nemesis]

I don't have a basic that will run the old PC Basic games so I can't actually play it.   As I recall conceptually it was more like SFC but without the graphics.  The races I recall were Alliance, Remans and Klargons.  I'm sure you can identify their originals.

Link to a review

Link to youtube video

[FPF-DieHard]

There was one other game that did use SFB rules but they were not authorized to do so and were forced off the market.  Warp Factor, written in interpreted basic for the original PC.  I had it then and have the source code still.  I'd be tempted to try and upgrade it to the more modern FreeBasic if I had the skills.

Only to be sued and shut down again? 

The Trek games without the SFB rules all suck, it's a shame but it's true.

[Nemesis]

There was one other game that did use SFB rules but they were not authorized to do so and were forced off the market.  Warp Factor, written in interpreted basic for the original PC.  I had it then and have the source code still.  I'd be tempted to try and upgrade it to the more modern FreeBasic if I had the skills.

Only to be sued and shut down again? 

The Trek games without the SFB rules all suck, it's a shame but it's true.

I didn't say anything about distributing it.  Done for myself they would neither know nor care. 

I wouldn't go so far as to say that all non SFB based Trek computer games suck mainly because I've played relatively few of them (and those were disappointing) but there may well be some that do have fans who like them.  Sucking is at least partly opinion and I dare say that there are those for whom SFC "sucks" because it is too complex for them. 

[Corbomite]

I wouldn't go so far as to say that all non SFB based Trek computer games suck mainly because I've played relatively few of them (and those were disappointing) but there may well be some that do have fans who like them.  Sucking is at least partly opinion and I dare say that there are those for whom SFC "sucks" because it is too complex for them.

This is essentially the core of the issue with any multi-layered game. Some people enjoy the act of playing and the execution of tasks or strategies to an intended goal; some people just like to win and they don't really care how they do it. It's the deep tactical camp vs arcade shooter camp or the people who make up or ignore the rules in Monopoly vs the rules lawyers.

[Captain Adam]

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[Nemesis]

I'm definitely in the "deep" tactical/strategy side over the reflex shooters myself.  But that doesn't mean the reflex shooters inherently suck, just that they don't match what entertains me.  SFC 3 didn't appeal to me but it definitely had its fans who preferred it to the earlier models.

There are games whose rules are not that complex but do have deep strategy, chess for example.  They don't suck.

[OlBuzzard]

Like any game that is out there:  There has to be a foundation to build on.  The tactical moves, etc. from SFB gave things a good platform to build on. 

[Age]

For me the SFB rule set was its greatest strength it had more years of play testing than any complex computer game ever has had or will have.  There was more balance outside of the ISC and X-Ships than any other game that begins to rival its complexity. 

Are there places where SFB went wrong?  Absolutely.  Creating weapons whose features were designed to give an over whelming advantage against their enemy (Hydran Hellbore vs Early Klingons).  Designing ships to avoid the DAC issue with forward hull by using central hull is another (there was no real reason Hydrans shouldn't have had fore and aft hull).  Some are perfectly legitimate like developing ADD, dogfight drones and strengthening those rear shields to defend better vs Hellbore for example.

And that is so true! The SFB rules, is the greatest strength of the game. Whether or not people want to believe it or not. It's definitely what separates SFC from all the other crap. Someone mentioned BC. I play BC. It's not balanced at all. After 10 min it gets ridiculously boring. Just like STO.

There's no rules in place. People add as many weapons, all this technology that hasn't been tested for balancing, in the end its overkill. SFC remains the best game IMHO. OP on the top, SFC3 on the bottom of the SFC series. Between OP and 3. 3 is like watching Star Trek the Animated Series. Cartoonish, kind of cheesy, trying to hold on to Star Trek but in the end poorly executed. SFC has most of SFB, and even though I never played SFB I have to agree you can definitely see the difference btwn SFC and every other Star Trek Game. I have them all and they all turn out the same. But if it weren't for the SFB veterans around here; I don't think I would of fell in love with the game.

Adam

How can you say this since you never played one campaign on Dyna 2 server.You think BC is bad so is SFC2 if not patched and modded like all the rest of the Trek games.You don't know the community like you think you do as Raven Night one of the biggest modelers out there would take offence of what you just said about BC.You wouldn't want to say that about his community when he had his on board.Raven Night BC Universe

You think you know SFC3 you don't half as well as you think as you never played on any dyna 3 server or I would know as STGD back then did race registration for it.You can't even name name 3 of the biggest mods out there as we hosted 2 of them on old STGD.

When to comes to thins game you don't know as much as you think know if played on a General War server or Slave Girls server and have your rear handed back to you.You just don't the community here well enough to even talk about the game like you think you know.I leanred about it the hard way and gained respect for those here seeing as great as they were.

The only thing good about SFC is the dyna campaign map other than thet from the tactical pov it is like all others no diggerence and those other games use the right weapons.I wouldn't go and bash them as this game has it faults as well.

I do work on the Olldest Trek gaming fansite on the net.

This is what we said about SFB the board game more so than SFC.

     
Name: Star Fleet Battles

Any Star Trek fan worth their salt would have at least heard of this game.

Any Star Trek fan who loves board/card games would have played this game at one point in their life or seen someone playing it.

Star Fleet Battles is the most recognised board game for Star Trek on the planet and is the game which gave Interplay the idea to make Star Trek: Starfleet Command back in the 90's (heck the original interplay manual even credits Amarillo Design).

Even though Star Fleet Battles is a VAST game with LOADS of expansion sets and a massive rule set book the game itself is easy to get into.

With tournaments, official discussion groups and online support and play it's the corner stone of Amarillo Design and was the corner stone for Interplays most successful series of Star Trek games before they held the franchise over to Activision in 2000.

[Nemesis]

I believe that Adam was talking of the single player versions not the online.  I seem to recall Age that there was a time when you were here and only playing single player SFC yourself.  Single player vs multiplayer vs Dynaverse are all significantly different experiences. 

[Age]

That was on the Old Taldren boards when I was playing SP here I started playing on the Dyna then GSA.Tracey figured out my GSA name which I used to log on the dyna with and it became widely known.Then I was everyone target on the coalition.