Topic: Interesting news

[[UFP]Exeter]

some interesting news.

As mentioned prior some issues with the Bullet physics wrapper.  But the physics itself is c++ and being upgraded to fully utilized the GPU for FAST physics and collision.  It works just about everywhere.

Also, Steam (owned by Valve) is looking at Linux as their CEO really dislikes Win 8.   For games I have to agree and playing with the OS for a week I have to say I no longer despise it, I really hate it.  A downgrade is in the works.

I also was accepted to develop using the Steam SDK, this provides much greater MMO like playability that Dyna.  Not saying we will use it but it as an option.  This is only the network.

The issue with dyna is how to make it work.  We may have the dyna codebase but I have not seen it.  We have the dyna client code in EAW but that is like taking parts from a VW to fix a Ferrari.  If we must, Boost libraries have a generic code base to use.  In a way this decision is up to the powers that be, as to wether we use dyna servers,  just servers with new code or other options.

[Strat]

This is excellent news!!!!

[Tus-XC]

windows 8 ain't bad, just that it works really well for tablets atm.  8.1 that comes out soon brings back boot to desktop and the start menu - so essentially windows 7

[TAnimaL]

<rant>
not to sidetrack this with Windows8 stuff, but, what the hell people. I'm sitting on a Win8 machine all day. There's a "Start" button. It brings up a "Start" menu. Yes, the menu looks different like it's meant for a tablet but it works the same if not better. Once I get past that menu, I'm working in software that works just the same as WinXP. And, for the record, that's editing and compositing HD video for a living, not playing "Minecraft."

And while it might get upgraded, it's sure as heck not going away...
<end rant>

Looking forward to moving forward

[Captain Adam]

.

[maelstorm]

I hope people don't start panicking when the LCARS comes out
Moving forward is a must.

Why aren't you running it now?

http://www.lcarsx32.com/lcars/index.php

LCARS x32 - Star Trek Windows Shell Interface - Weekly Build 5-14-09

here it is using a touchscreen monitor and voice commands

Star Trek TNG LCARS Voice and Touch Demonstration

[Captain Adam]

.

[Nemesis]

Also, Steam (owned by Valve) is looking at Linux as their CEO really dislikes Win 8.   For games I have to agree and playing with the OS for a week I have to say I no longer despise it, I really hate it.  A downgrade is in the works.

I also was accepted to develop using the Steam SDK, this provides much greater MMO like playability that Dyna.  Not saying we will use it but it as an option.  This is only the network.

Steam is on Linux now. 

[[UFP]Exeter]

Win 8,is fine on a touchscreen, but I have a great laptop and it does not do touch.   I have win 8, and my biggest complaint I HATE THE F***ING APPS, I have a C O M P U T E R not a tablet.  That is my complaint, win 8 breat for tablet, but trying to make the tablet and the PC the same OS?   retarded.

Yes steam is on Linux now, but have not tried it out.  Only makes a different related to the method chosen and as I said that is in the powers that be.  Not important yet as the main game needs to be ready first.

but more important than win 8 is to SSD or not to SSD

[knightstorm]

I hope people don't start panicking when the LCARS comes out
Moving forward is a must.

So monitors with scratches and fingerprints on them is the way of the future.  Great.....

[maelstorm]

Win 8,is fine on a touchscreen, but I have a great laptop and it does not do touch.   I have win 8, and my biggest complaint I HATE THE F***ING APPS, I have a C O M P U T E R not a tablet.  That is my complaint, win 8 breat for tablet, but trying to make the tablet and the PC the same OS?   retarded.

i belive later this month there will be a patch that will bring back the start menu and you can set desktop as your home.

untill then there is always Classicshell : http://sourceforge.net/projects/classicshell/

i'm using that and i never touch the start page.

[maelstorm]

I hope people don't start panicking when the LCARS comes out
Moving forward is a must.

So monitors with scratches and fingerprints on them is the way of the future.  Great.....

also let's not forget food/fingerpaints and other grime from young children playing with the computer.

[Brush Wolf]

The start screen doesn't bother me. What does is the completely non-intuitive way to power down the computer. MS took the unified interface a little too far by leaving a power icon off the start screen and the desktop.

[maelstorm]

The start screen doesn't bother me. What does is the completely non-intuitive way to power down the computer. MS took the unified interface a little too far by leaving a power icon off the start screen and the desktop.

i'ts still easy to do.

1. Move the mouse to lower right hand corner.
2. click gear.
3. click shudtown.
4. click the option of shutdown/reboot/logoff.

VS
1. move the mouse to lower left hand corner.
2. click the start button.
3. click shutdown.
4. click the option of shutdown/reboot/logoff.

[[UFP]Exeter]

I have the 8.1 preview and the start button only pops to the apps from desktop.  There is the option to set which way you start, but as usueal microsoft listened and did what they wanted in a half ass way.

ME almost made me abandorn windows and not this!   It is getting harder to justify.  And with the abandon of technet, testing things before I buy just got very expensive.

Tiime to see if I can get drivers for linux on this!

[Brush Wolf]

The start screen doesn't bother me. What does is the completely non-intuitive way to power down the computer. MS took the unified interface a little too far by leaving a power icon off the start screen and the desktop.

i'ts still easy to do.

1. Move the mouse to lower right hand corner.
2. click gear.
3. click shudtown.
4. click the option of shutdown/reboot/logoff.

VS
1. move the mouse to lower left hand corner.
2. click the start button.
3. click shutdown.
4. click the option of shutdown/reboot/logoff.

It is easy once you know about it.

[TAnimaL]

(I hate finding myself leaping to MS's defense, but...)

With Win8 You still have a COMPUTER, not a tablet. It will run several programs at once, you can Alt+Tab between them, there's a desktop where you can pile up all those icons if you're one of those users and once you're past that "annoying Start screen" it acts like any other computer. I know there are some more important changes that gear-heads have gone on about, like the missing F9 during boot (8.1 is supopsed to fix some of that, but Win8 sure ain't a tablet OS.

Here's something your pre-Win8 pc won't do -

tap the WinKey and type the first letters of the program you're looking for. I almost never use Paint but needed it the other day. WinKey + "PA" and boom, there it was
or
WinKey + "X" (at the same time) brings up an advanced menu with all sorts things like device manager, power management, Task manager, command prompt, a whole mess of stuff.

I'm willing to bet now that in 5 years all computers will be touchscreen

[[UFP]Exeter]

There is a place for touchscreen.  And there is a place where it is inappropriate.  MS screwed up inn deciding all OS's should be touchscreen.

If I could shut off the apps entirely I would be happy.  Apps have a purpose but were not intended for PC's that have the resources.

I have a newer gamin laptop with win 8, no touchscreen.  I have also had a touchscreen.  The touchscreen is fine, but the OS for it is not.  The OS is fast, but at what cost.  Consider, win * is slightly faster that Win 7, but lacks aero.  And other features.  So Win 8 is faster (slightly) because they lobotomised Win 8.

But does not matter, for the main goal here is te game, and the choices make it viable on Window 7  (and and Linux.  Possible OSx but I have no way to chceck that.

[Tus-XC]

again, 8.1 solves all your gripes with win 8, adds boot to desktop, adds start button functionality.  You do not need to even access the new front end with 8.1, or 'apps' (btw, those apps can be full fledge programs, their store just centralizes it... hell if you're used to steam its the same premise as that) unless you want to. 

[TAnimaL]

Al the complaints seem to be about interface. Whether they're called "apps" "programs" or "little desktop thingy that I click on to do something", it works all the same.
Computers are continuing to change. Like 64-bit, cloud computing, multidevice synchronization...

But please dear god, don't go Mac OSX. I've given them more than enough $$ over the years, thank you.

[Czar Mohab]

The start screen doesn't bother me. What does is the completely non-intuitive way to power down the computer. MS took the unified interface a little too far by leaving a power icon off the start screen and the desktop.

i'ts still easy to do.

1. Move the mouse to lower right hand corner.
2. click gear.
3. click shudtown.
4. click the option of shutdown/reboot/logoff.

VS
1. move the mouse to lower left hand corner.
2. click the start button.
3. click shutdown.
4. click the option of shutdown/reboot/logoff.

or (on Win7 anyway)

1. Windows key
2. Right arrow key
3. Enter (shutdown) or Right arrow key (select other options)
4. If not a shutdown, appropriate letter key for the option you choose (they are underlined when using this way), R for Restart, etc.

...

Here's something your pre-Win8 pc won't do -

tap the WinKey and type the first letters of the program you're looking for. I almost never use Paint but needed it the other day. WinKey + "PA" and boom, there it was
or
WinKey + "X" (at the same time) brings up an advanced menu with all sorts things like device manager, power management, Task manager, command prompt, a whole mess of stuff.
...

*shrugs*

Works on Win 7 as well. Maybe not the *exact* same, but it does do something. Paint was item #2 under "Control Panel" and above a patch readme.pdf document in the search. winkey+x gave me "Windows Mobility Center", which just looked like a fancy GUI for the same things you can do in God Mode, only less of those things... Like a nice place for some uncommon things a user might do that are already available through normal means.

For my two cp on Win8:

The decision to force the "tablet" or "metro" (or whatever they are calling it now) view/GUI onto non-touch users was poor. Now, that isn't to say that the GUI itself is poor - it really isn't. It was just meant for touch, not mouse and keyboard. As intuitive as the OS is supposed to be, why couldn't it figure out, all by itself, if touch or traditional would be more appropriate for the user? I don't mind the "start screen" replacing the "start menu" - just give me a default non-touch option, since I prefer non-touch devices when PC'ing. 

I can't tell if 8 is better or worse than 7. Surely, 7 is better than Vista, XP better than ME, and I can trace that all the way back to DOS. However I just don't see what 8 offers that makes my life better when using a PC. Certainly there is a learning curve involved (as with all new things) but I don't see myself doing things any faster or smoother or more productively... While 8 is "pretty", it also isn't just lipstick on a pig. There is something "better" about it. I just have not seen it. Deep down, though, I feel that 8 is the new Vista, and 9 will be the new 7.

You combine the "touch" of 8 with the motion-detection of a kinect such that I never have to physically touch the PC, include it in the box, and give me a "traditional" option... Throw in some backwards compatibility, or at least include a virtual PC that can actually use VRAM and handle some "intensive" programs/games... *THAT* would be the better OS.

Now, Let's get off this Win8 kick and get back on track...

Maybe using the Steam SDK wouldn't be so bad? Dyna was good for what it did but maybe an update is in order?

That does bring up multi-platform questions as well -  would the Dyna code support multi-platforms simultaneously, or would it be limited to servers for only each specific OS?

Using Steam as a distributor would be awesome... The number of potential new players vastly increases that way

The Czar

[[UFP]Exeter]

1)  Windows 8 is not just the start screen but I was able to make it acceptable, Win 8.1 and ClasicStart for I have the proper start menu. The apps are there when I want tehe, not once on the week I have had this system.

2)  Dyna is viable and as it is a server it does not care what OS the client is on.  Our code should run Winows/Linus/OSx.  However testing will be issue.  However the game play style is different and would requie some rewrite.

3) Steam, can work but the issues is the license from CBS to use star Trek.  An option.  As it opens the market I would go this route.  I think it would make a better sell to CBS.

4)  Another option is a freelancer style network.  The dyna network host a lobby, and from the lobby players connect o various server.  The servers are user servers.  Dyna just validates the key (no duplicates) and lists online registered servers.

[Tulwar]

Can't they bring back Windows 2000?  That was my last OS that worked.  Sure, there was that illegal code that made every competitor's web browser wait 60 seconds before opening a window, but other than that, it worked!  My dial up modem ran fast enough there wasn't any lag problems playing SFC.  When I went to XP, my connection slowed, and my machine became a virus sponge.  I started paying $60.00 a year for anti-virus, and my machine was infected by a virus that simply hunted the web for an open port.  I didn't even have to clikck on an evil page!  Finally, I bought Norton's 360, and that was worse than any virus I encountered and impossible to recover from.  So then, I bought a Vista machine....  I still have that machine, but it's an XP machine, now.  I had to put a nix on SP3, because that made it every bit as slow to boot as a Vista Machine.  I still hate this machine.

Back with Vista, they did away with the "up one level" button.  Don't they know how important that is with a complex directory structure?  My brother said Win 7 is the dope, but I'm having a hard time believing that MS is believes in doing anything to make thier OS's user friendly.  I had come to learn that half of the trouble with Vista was a set of default settings deliberately designed to frustrate the user.  Who needs more abuse?  I'm used to the set of inconveinces inherent with Win XP.  My next machine will be a cheap off-lease XP machine.  In a couple of years, when I can afford paying 2 prices for new machine, I'll buy a Mac.  I'm not dealing with an MS OS again.

[Captain Adam]

.

[Starfox1701]

Any one remember when coding in Dos was the only way to get a game and you had to save it on a tape deck

[maelstorm]

Guys, do you remember when computers were really new technology. AOL was the sh*t. We were googly eyes for anything new and cool. And now it's like ehhh. Those were the days. I'm getting old. Ehhh

Adam

/oldman mode on


Back in my day we din't have aol.  We had fidonet and local bbs's. AND WE LIKED IT!  we din't have new fangle 3d graphics.  We had ANSI AND WE LIKED IT!!!  we din't have call of duty or battlefield or world of warcraft.  WE HAD BBS DOOR GAMES LIKE TRADEWARS 2000, AND STARTREK GAME USING LETTERS AND DOTS FOR A MAP ...  AND WE LIKED IT!!!  If you wanted to send an email to a friend or family in another state you had to setup an account on a Fidonet bbs and type out that long string of text to get it to them in the TO: box .. AND WE LIKED IT!!!

Before that we din't have disks or cartriges .. we had to type out programs for 2 hours out of a magazine or a book.  AND we had to save it to a audio casset .. AND WE LIKED IT!!


(lol sorry i couldn't resist.. yes i'm that damn old.)

[TAnimaL]

LMAO Maelstorm, cause we do sound like a bunch of geezers here...

It took me like, 5 seconds, to get over the missing "up one level" button, since you can just click on the flipping name in the directory structure in the Explorer window to go up a level. Or two levels, or five levels. When you've tunneled way down a directory, to be able to click once to go up 5 levels instead of clicking 5 times makes sense to me

I'll buy a Mac.  I'm not dealing with an MS OS again.

HAHAhahahahaha. Now that made me laugh. I had to buy into Apple for business reasons from '02 to '11. They've undergon 10, TEN!, OS upgrades in that time, including 2 massive shifts that make Windows XP to 8 look like a patch, a paradigm-level switch to a different processor, the requirement to use dual-boot to enable legacy software, and all while paying higher prices and dealing with a corporate-to-client relationship where "they" decide what "you" want.

I don't know if any of you follow the professional video market, but Apple took Final Cut Studio, which had become an industry STANDARD throughout the professional market and gutted it and dumbed it by throwing out almost every established notion about video editing. Why? Because they wanted to is the answer you get, and because they no longer see the professional market as beneficial. They make way too much $$ on pads, phones and pods to care.

At least with Win 8.1 it "appears" that MS is listening

[Starfox1701]

Apple is the same dumb company that it was in the 80s when they almost went under. Give it 5 or 6 years and you will see the exact same thing.

[Brush Wolf]

As long as Apple has a large enough group of faithful that buys the new model iPhone and iPad as soon as it comes out even though it is nothing more than an extremely minor upgrade they will do fine. If those faithful even wake up to the scam then Apple will be toast.

[[UFP]Exeter]

with 8.1 the are listening except:

New computers may have a bios configuration that win 8 likes but Win 7 will not load  (seems my new system is that way)

I added a hard drive for raid 1 as I hate to lose work.  Win 8 would not boot from the raid. MS solution, reinstall to the raid.

I am on my 4th attempt to get 8.1 installed to my new win 8 install, keeps hanging.  MS says to cancel the install and try again.

As for age, the first computer I ever programmed on required punch cards and some pushing of the "lights" on the front panel to debug code.

[Czar Mohab]

with 8.1 the are listening except:

New computers may have a bios configuration that win 8 likes but Win 7 will not load  (seems my new system is that way)

I added a hard drive for raid 1 as I hate to lose work.  Win 8 would not boot from the raid. MS solution, reinstall to the raid.

I am on my 4th attempt to get 8.1 installed to my new win 8 install, keeps hanging.  MS says to cancel the install and try again.

As for age, the first computer I ever programmed on required punch cards and some pushing of the "lights" on the front panel to debug code.

#1 I believe you are correct but I am not 100% sure.

#2 Try this before you get too much into the reinstall. Its for 7, but shouldn't be that different for 8. Oh wait. you said you already did it. Oh well. Good read anyway.

#3 Sounds like XP:SP2 all over again

#4 Fun fact: those punch card computers can trace their origins to the cotton gin (more accurately, the now abundant cotton because of this invention created the need/desire for better and faster looms, which ran on punch cards). History channel FTW!

The Czar

[[UFP]Exeter]

#1 I believe you are correct but I am not 100% sure.

#2 Try this before you get too much into the reinstall. Its for 7, but shouldn't be that different for 8. Oh wait. you said you already did it. Oh well. Good read anyway.

#3 Sounds like XP:SP2 all over again

#4 Fun fact: those punch card computers can trace their origins to the cotton gin (more accurately, the now abundant cotton because of this invention created the need/desire for better and faster looms, which ran on punch cards). History channel FTW!

The Czar

#1  It happened to me.  Brand new high end laptop and I wanted to downgrade to windows 7, drivers are there but, my bios does not support 7. 

#2 Already up in Win 8, and of course the mods to make it usable.  Only difference for code building is it does require an update and adds te RTM for building, but not using hat.

#3 resolved but I was getting ver close to Linux.

Love the history channel and watching national geographic.  Other day wated one on the viking sword, very cool.

Of, and my old laptop is Win7 so it will be a test platform for minimal requirements.  Dual core, DX 11 GPU but hates DX11,  but will work for testing.

[Nemesis]

#1  It happened to me.  Brand new high end laptop and I wanted to downgrade to windows 7, drivers are there but, my bios does not support 7. 

Is it that the BIOS does not support Win 7 or because the "secure boot" option is turned on?

[[UFP]Exeter]

I believe it is more than secure boot.  My old laptop about 4 years old works in 7 and 8.

[Tulwar]

I've always hated Apple, but I'll not have another new OS from MS.  The machines come with loaded with useless crapware, if you want to build your own basic machine, it's expensive enough that a bottom of the line Mac doesn't look that expensive.

Maybe I can just buy a Chrome machine, blow away the OS, and install Linux.  I hope that is possible.  Then, I'll just have to download a Windows emulator to make my old Windows software useful again.

[[UFP]Exeter]

Wine is a good emulator I hear.

I am tempted by Linux, but have to check out my main 2 modern games. Lord of the rings online and Civilization V.    My biggest concern is the software development.  It could set me back a long time.

I have techNet so I scrapped everything on this system and did a clean install Win 8 pro and added the 8.1pro then added ClassicStart and it is usable.  Now ways to disable apps popping up on keystrokes and it could be tolerable.  To be I like it will maybe be Windows 9.0

[Tulwar]

I've heard people can even play SFC on Macs with Windows Emulators.

I've heard there is a stripped down, hacker's version of XP.  Whatever happened to DOS 3.1?

[maelstorm]

Wine is a good emulator I hear.

Every time i read this i have to chime in.

It's a good emulator as long as:

1. You have old commonly used hardware by the average contributor to the wine code.
2. You don't plan on playing a game that's newer than 3 years ago. (anything newer will just basically not work/crash repeately/frustrate you endlessly to get it working,  unless it was programmed to work with wine.  Odds are 1 in 3,431,604,642,214.)
3. Don't mind not being able to have all graphical and features working in a game that your hardware would normally be able to have active based on your hardware.
4. Enjoy watching the game crash repeatedly or running in slow motion every so often.

I'm not kidding.  I gave *nix a chance.  Wine is a horrible replacement for Directx. As for #3 let me explain.  load up said game in windows.  max out the graphics and enjoy your 60-120 fps game.  now go in and cut down your graphics options (details texture settings ect ect ect) roughly in 1/2 and imagine the game barely running between 15-20 fps.  That's what that game would probably run like in wine.

Recently i tried to get an extra drive setup to run ubuntu to give it another chance (i do this every 2ish years or so to see if support has improved).  After 2 weeks of trying to fix mouse focus issues where i could not click on an application that was active or would seem to only be able to click on it (then nothing after i close it manualy via hotkey)  i found a solution.   I was told the whole time .. It's nvidia they don't give open driver support.  I begrudginly keept on working on things to make it work.   Turned off the spyware adware service (when did distros start coming out with this junk bundled in it??)  And started to setup the support for my nvidia 3d emitter for my 3d glasses.  OH the joy i rediscovered yet again when a new driver or program decided to wipe out the grub configuration (boot loader) and cause the system to stop booting.  This plus being told if you want to run *nix  don't use new hardware.  use old 3 year old hardware if you want *nix to work.  I was like really? i'm not supposed to enjoy the leaps in hardware to enjoy better graphical performance.   I decided then i'm done with *nix gaming support.  It just doesn't exist and never will untill major publishers like EA, Blizzard and Activision actually produce games for that operating system AND actively support it.

The biggest block to these publishers is ease of programming.   When they write a game to work with windows they just have to tell directx What to draw and what graphical functions/ audio functions to use while the game is running.  They don't have to code the game to talk directly to all the different kinds of hardware.  They also don't have to deal with 99% of the different hardware setups out there and possible bug from a combination to their code.  Directx handles all that.  In an *nix enviroment it's back to wiriting support for every piece of hardware and then writing the game.

I'll stick with windows untill the *nix community can get their heads out of the ground and do someting to entice the publishers to go the other route.  But yelling and screaming microsoft is evil and the current most popular version of windows sucks won't get the big publishers to swap.

[[UFP]Exeter]

Interesting synopsis.  I do believe *nix has open GL as the native graphics language.  But, most games are coded into DX, so that does not help.

I looked at ubuntu and I suspect my laptop is too recent and Ubuntu's secure boot feature still has problems. 

SFC4 should be able to be easily built for linux, as all the libraries work in Linux and the graphics works OpenGL or DX. 

[Tulwar]

If you want to run the latest games, you need the biggest, baddest machine with the latest version of Windows.  The problem comes when you have an expensive library of software that is too expensive to replace.  A faster, newer machine is worthless if you can't use the software that puts bread on you're table.

[[UFP]Exeter]

No kidding!  At least everything I have runs on Windows 8.   Once by one I eliminate the little quirks of windoes 8, things that are great for a tablet but a pain for a pc.  Gad I can just ignore windows RT.