Topic: Star Trek Into Darkness - Review and Discuss  (Read 33657 times)

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Offline TAnimaL

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Re: Star Trek Into Darkness - Review and Discuss
« Reply #60 on: July 14, 2013, 12:57:54 pm »
well, by that logic, nothing in Trek after "Best of Both Worlds" is canon, since that's about when GR passed, in 1991. The notion of "canon" gets bandied about without really getting what it is - it's really the name for what we see and fitting it together, rather than some sort of secret notebook that "is" ST. Gene was a big proponent in pushing this meme, in part because of what little control he really had over Trek post-TMP and pre-TNG. The standing definition since he came up with "what is canon Trek" is, what gets aired or screened is Star Trek, leaving out the print fiction. SO even if Gene (or DC Fontana or any other "Trek originator") didn't like parts of TWOK or ST5, it's still considered "Satr Trek." Sadly to me, this includes the JJ-Trekm but at least he had the decency to go to a parallel timeline for that.

Since GR had already "moved on" to TNG, I'm sure he'd have no problem killing off Shatner, er, Kirk. ;)

Offline Age

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Re: Star Trek Into Darkness - Review and Discuss
« Reply #61 on: July 14, 2013, 05:49:01 pm »
Quote
Since GR had already "moved on" to TNG, I'm sure he'd have no problem killing off Shatner, er, Kirk.
That is why most turned there backs on Trek alteast most baby boomers who grew up with it.It happened agian when data died in Nemisis.

Offline TAnimaL

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Re: Star Trek Into Darkness - Review and Discuss
« Reply #62 on: July 16, 2013, 09:04:09 am »
well, as someone who grew up right behind those "baby boomers," they can kiss my shiny metal @$$

I really don't think "most" turned away from ST over Kirk's death. I know a lot of fans, (and I do mean alot) and most have stayed with it. The way I see it, there were those TOS fans (who were a minority) who never ever like TNG et. al.  and so gave up on ST; there are those who did like TNG etc and stayed with it; and then there are those, now adults though young enough to be my kids, who came to it all after ST went off air. I met a 15-year old kid last month who had some of the best comments on a TOS episode I've heard in years.

As  much as many were disappointed in "Nemesis," had Paramount allowed another TNG (or TNG-era) movie, "most" would have turned out (especially given the huge turnouts "BOBW" had in movie theaters this spring). And Data wasn't really gone - he was just locked away inside of B4 (I mean, if they can bring back Spock, fer crissakes...)

What is universal among fans, in my experience, is how much we all dislike JJ-Trek.

Offline Age

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Re: Star Trek Into Darkness - Review and Discuss
« Reply #63 on: July 17, 2013, 05:53:08 pm »
Quote
I really don't think "most" turned away from ST over Kirk's death. I know a lot of fans,
I would really say the heard core fans did those that were more into ToS which most are baby boomers ever since then sales plumetted on ST merchandise.The fan mag Star Trek communicator closed shortly after the end of Nemisis which Data did die.

With Kirk and Data gone fans lost interest.

Offline TAnimaL

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Re: Star Trek Into Darkness - Review and Discuss
« Reply #64 on: July 17, 2013, 08:52:01 pm »
Well, everyone's entitled to their opinion. But yours is wrong ;)

As the coordinator of my local Star Trek Meet-Up group, we are over 160 people strong, and growing every month. While there are some of those who do actually like JJ-Trek, they are a minority, and almost every one likes TOS & TNG. I can't quote market sales off the top of my head, the fact there is sooo much stuff coming out from tshirts and posters and Legos (excuse me, Kree-os), I'd say your wrong about that too.

Sorry, but what bugs me the most about the baby boomers is their insistence that what belongs to them is their's and no one else can appreciate it the right way.

Plenty of Trekkies still out here, loving Trek of all Generations :)

Offline Age

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Re: Star Trek Into Darkness - Review and Discuss
« Reply #65 on: July 18, 2013, 02:05:04 pm »
This is prevelent mostly in North America as there are lots of TOS fans more so than TNG.There are lots of TNG in Europe compared to TOS.That is why SFB is bigger in North America.

Offline knightstorm

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Re: Star Trek Into Darkness - Review and Discuss
« Reply #66 on: July 19, 2013, 05:31:05 am »
This is prevelent mostly in North America as there are lots of TOS fans more so than TNG.There are lots of TNG in Europe compared to TOS.That is why SFB is bigger in North America.

Ah No.  By the time Generations was released, it was clear that there weren't going to be any new TOS based procutions.  The original cast was aging.  Kirk at least got to die kicking %$$.  As for SFB being bigger in North America, that's because, its a board game that nobody's heard of made by a company based in Texas.

Offline Age

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Re: Star Trek Into Darkness - Review and Discuss
« Reply #67 on: July 19, 2013, 06:00:31 pm »
This is prevelent mostly in North America as there are lots of TOS fans more so than TNG.There are lots of TNG in Europe compared to TOS.That is why SFB is bigger in North America.

Ah No.  By the time Generations was released, it was clear that there weren't going to be any new TOS based procutions.  The original cast was aging.  Kirk at least got to die kicking %$$. 
That, I was very assure of to bad Paramount would of made more if they continued with the Orignal cast more so then TNG.

Offline knightstorm

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Re: Star Trek Into Darkness - Review and Discuss
« Reply #68 on: July 19, 2013, 08:38:32 pm »
This is prevelent mostly in North America as there are lots of TOS fans more so than TNG.There are lots of TNG in Europe compared to TOS.That is why SFB is bigger in North America.

Ah No.  By the time Generations was released, it was clear that there weren't going to be any new TOS based procutions.  The original cast was aging.  Kirk at least got to die kicking %$$. 
That, I was very assure of to bad Paramount would of made more if they continued with the Orignal cast more so then TNG.

The original cast officially retired from Starfleet at the end of Star Trek VI.  Even if they hadn't, the cast was getting on in years, and they started dying off after Generations.  Mark Lenard died in 1996, Deforest Kelly died in 1999, James Doohan died in 2005.

Offline Age

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Re: Star Trek Into Darkness - Review and Discuss
« Reply #69 on: July 20, 2013, 08:05:43 pm »
This is prevelent mostly in North America as there are lots of TOS fans more so than TNG.There are lots of TNG in Europe compared to TOS.That is why SFB is bigger in North America.

Ah No.  By the time Generations was released, it was clear that there weren't going to be any new TOS based procutions.  The original cast was aging.  Kirk at least got to die kicking %$$. 
That, I was very assure of to bad Paramount would of made more if they continued with the Orignal cast more so then TNG.

The original cast officially retired from Starfleet at the end of Star Trek VI.  Even if they hadn't, the cast was getting on in years, and they started dying off after Generations.  Mark Lenard died in 1996, Deforest Kelly died in 1999, James Doohan died in 2005.
I know that but they could of continued even without them just wite in the script.

Offline Czar Mohab

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Re: Star Trek Into Darkness - Review and Discuss
« Reply #70 on: July 21, 2013, 12:39:44 am »
This is prevelent mostly in North America as there are lots of TOS fans more so than TNG.There are lots of TNG in Europe compared to TOS.That is why SFB is bigger in North America.

Ah No.  By the time Generations was released, it was clear that there weren't going to be any new TOS based procutions.  The original cast was aging.  Kirk at least got to die kicking %$$. 
That, I was very assure of to bad Paramount would of made more if they continued with the Orignal cast more so then TNG.

The original cast officially retired from Starfleet at the end of Star Trek VI.  Even if they hadn't, the cast was getting on in years, and they started dying off after Generations.  Mark Lenard died in 1996, Deforest Kelly died in 1999, James Doohan died in 2005.
I know that but they could of continued even without them just wite in the script.

But one must not forget that "Admiral McCoy" was escorted to the shuttle bay by Data in TNG:Encounter at Farpoint. Most retired country doctors with a military (or military like) rank such as Commander tend not to be promoted at all upon retirement from that service...

There is this:
Quote from: From McCoy's Memory Alpha Page
The reference manual Star Trek: The Next Generation Officer's Manual gives reference McCoy holding, in actuality, a special rank known as "branch admiral".


What I am getting at is, even though the crew may have been retired, put to pasture, or whatever, the crew may have felt some connection between themselves and the ship, even if that connection was in name only; a connection so deep that they felt that dropping by and saying hello was required.

I firmly believe that a ship has a life of her own, her own personality, her own quirks, places she likes to be touched, and special ways of talking to her... It goes beyond crews and wires and pipes...  Its something you can feel as soon as you set foot on board - the soft sigh of her deck plates when you set foot aboard for the first time in ages, the air of relaxation as she rests on the blocks in dry dock for repairs, the pulse quickening adrenalin rush when battle stations is sounded... I've set foot on various ships at various stages of life (and death) and every one of them I could feel their personality... but there is only one that holds a place in my heart.

In TNG:Relics Scotty and Picard have a long conversation about that special ship; "the one" if you will.

Now, TPTB could have made ST:7 and maybe ST:8 using the "old" crew, perhaps even having a better tie-in to Generations... Cast wise they were getting older and tireder. Character wise they would have retired soon after ST:6/7/8 anyway. So to see the three retirees on the -B and the one on the -D, and throwing in the assumption that someone was there on the -C, it makes sense from a screen-to-real-life point of view (knowing what happens in Generations to Kirk, and knowing how old Spock and McCoy are when Encounter at Farpoint happens, I like to assume that they were both present on the -C when she launched - that maybe just by being there some part of them, perhaps even that part of them that was touched by Kirk and the others, would imprint itself upon another Enterprise, and once again they would all boldly go...).

Quote from: G'Kar, Babylon 5 Season 5 Episode 20: Objects in Motion
I believe that when we leave a place, part of it goes with us and part of us remains. Go anywhere in the station when it is quiet, and just listen. After a while, you will hear the echoes of all our conversations, every thought and word we've exchanged. Long after we are gone, our voices will linger in these walls for as long as this place remains. But I will admit that the part of me that is going will very much miss the part of you that is staying

All of that aside - it is fairly safe to say that for anything, there are always fans that love all of it, some of it, or none of it. Not every fan of a thing is required to be a fan of all of a thing. I fully understand TOS fans not liking, say, TNG or DS9. BUt, in the end, I think that this argument has been pretty well  :2gun: :rant: :whip: :knuppel2: and  :laugh: over the years. It doesn't need my help.

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Offline TAnimaL

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Re: Star Trek Into Darkness - Review and Discuss
« Reply #71 on: July 23, 2013, 02:01:57 pm »
Liking one over the other, sure, can't solve for that, but saying all fans left after TOS is just wrong. I don't know many "Europeans" at all (mostly Brits) and none of the Canadians I know are Trekkies, so all the fans I do know are from the U.S. of A. and none stopped being Trekkies 'cause TOS stopped.

As far as SFB goes, I think this is a skewed audience here. Most fans outside of these forum have ever heard of SFB.

Offline Age

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Re: Star Trek Into Darkness - Review and Discuss
« Reply #72 on: July 25, 2013, 07:12:15 pm »
I know that I ma talking about now as look alikes couldbe used and voice overs ventriliqists.

I really miss this era the most as JJ along with Bermon and Braga ruined Star Trek and JJ should just get the h out.Go do Star Wars
http://www.christianpost.com/news/star-wars-episode-7-news-update-lucasfilm-slams-latest-rumor-that-jj-abrams-is-quitting-cast-rumors-swirl-comic-con-mock-preview-trailer-video-100769/

btw There are lots of Cdn Star Trek fans old and new just look how many trek gamers there.

Offline knightstorm

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Re: Star Trek Into Darkness - Review and Discuss
« Reply #73 on: July 25, 2013, 08:17:37 pm »
Berman saved Star Trek after Roddenberry went senile and nearly ran it into the ground.

Offline TAnimaL

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Re: Star Trek Into Darkness - Review and Discuss
« Reply #74 on: July 26, 2013, 12:21:37 pm »
Well, I wouldn't say GR went senile, but he always was a little spotty as a producer. A lot of what is good about TNG came from him, and others, in the first season; Berman et. al. certainly managed to keep ST going for 18 years.

Offline knightstorm

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Re: Star Trek Into Darkness - Review and Discuss
« Reply #75 on: July 26, 2013, 01:17:37 pm »
He had dudes running around in skirts.

Offline Corbomite

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Re: Star Trek Into Darkness - Review and Discuss
« Reply #76 on: July 26, 2013, 03:09:04 pm »
He had dudes running around in skirts.


So did the Egyptians, Romans, Greeks, Irish and Scots. What's your point?

Offline Age

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Re: Star Trek Into Darkness - Review and Discuss
« Reply #77 on: July 26, 2013, 05:13:13 pm »
Berman saved Star Trek after Roddenberry went senile and nearly ran it into the ground.
He did kill it after bring out Enterpise and killing off to icons of that of Kirk and Data imgaine what it would of been like of Spack was not brought back.It would of been the end of Trek no one would of gone out to see another ST movie.

There are a lot of Kirk fans out there who are disappointed after Generations.I am one of them.

Offline knightstorm

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Re: Star Trek Into Darkness - Review and Discuss
« Reply #78 on: July 26, 2013, 06:09:19 pm »
Berman saved Star Trek after Roddenberry went senile and nearly ran it into the ground.
He did kill it after bring out Enterpise and killing off to icons of that of Kirk and Data imgaine what it would of been like of Spack was not brought back.It would of been the end of Trek no one would of gone out to see another ST movie.

There are a lot of Kirk fans out there who are disappointed after Generations.I am one of them.

KIRK WAS ALREADY GONE!  There was NEVER going to be another TOS production by that point.  What does it matter.  As for Data, we don't know what they had planned for B4.  He saved Star Trek, and for some stupid reason, the studio chose to throw everything he had done down the toilet by letting Abrams pervert it.

Offline Czar Mohab

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Re: Star Trek Into Darkness - Review and Discuss
« Reply #79 on: July 26, 2013, 06:15:57 pm »
... He saved Star Trek, and for some stupid reason, the studio chose to throw everything he had done down the toilet by letting Abrams pervert it.

That stupid reason, dear sir, looks a lot like "$". Or at least the hope that there would be plenty to go around...

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