Topic: Star Trek Into Darkness - Review and Discuss  (Read 34466 times)

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Offline FPF-Tobin Dax

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Re: Star Trek Into Darkness - Review and Discuss
« Reply #20 on: May 26, 2013, 11:36:12 pm »
If you thin trek fans are picky, wait until star wars fans see what JJ does with star wars. If he boots that, he better lookout!
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Offline TheStressPuppy

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Re: Star Trek Into Darkness - Review and Discuss
« Reply #21 on: May 27, 2013, 06:25:36 am »
George Lucas will still be there as an "adviser", and George did a good enough job screwing up his own creation on his own. Between the both of them we will probably get a character that makes Jar Jar look like Darth Vader. o.0

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Offline TAnimaL

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Re: Star Trek Into Darkness - Review and Discuss
« Reply #23 on: May 27, 2013, 01:04:35 pm »
Well, here's the important thing to remember about JJ-Trek - it's not for the fans, nitpickers or not. It's for the general movie-going public, and I'm pretty sure that holds up for Star Wars too. While us Trekkies and fanboys see the movies more than once, we're not the ones who drive up the ticket sales into the billions. To be fair to JJ (and it pains me to do so), most of the Trek movies are more for the general audience and not Trekkies, especially 2-6. Personally, I  prefer the TNG movies for the reason that they seem more like the TV show (being made by the same production staff), but even those fell into the trap of "big bad guy must get blown up a Captain having a romance" action plot.

Just today saw an interesting infographic about movie franchises.
http://www.newyorker.com/sandbox/business/hollywood-franchises.html
When you sort it by overall gross, Trek is way down in the range of franchises like Mission Impossible and Transformers. Which, when you think about, makes both the choice of JJ and the scripts of JJ-Trek seem obvious, like they were spit out by a computer.

Offline d4v1ks

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Re: Star Trek Into Darkness - Review and Discuss
« Reply #24 on: May 27, 2013, 01:09:11 pm »
 :laugh:
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Offline TAnimaL

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Re: Star Trek Into Darkness - Review and Discuss
« Reply #25 on: May 27, 2013, 01:45:04 pm »
You know, I really didn't think Nemesis was that bad at the time. Disappointing, maybe, but better than Voyage Home, or Final Frontier. Compared to Into Darkness, it's freakin brilliant....

SPOILER ALERT


Overall it's such a typical, modern action movie, and I don't mean that kindly. They're not badly made,  lots of money ia spent on effects and music and shiny lens flare, and audiences eat them up, but somewhere along the line "contrived" and "overly-plotted" got confused for "clever" and "intelligent." It reminded me of a Die Hard movie, and while many of us liked those, even the first one is just a stupid collection of one-liners and flying bullets. Sure, there's a nice moment when McClane is hurt and thinking of his seperated wife, so you feel for him, 'cause there's a swell of music and Bruce Willis is an decent actor, but then there's another bad guy to blast. So, when Khan gets all weepy thinking of his crew popsicles, you can go, "gee, maybe he's not that bad a guy," but it doesn't stick, because Old Spock gets on the horn and reminds nuSpock that Khan is bad.

In regards to Leonard Nimoy, in the words of McCoy, "I liked him better when he was dead."

Speaking of dying... When Pike is laying there in pain and dying, Spock reaches out and mindmelds with him, and I'm thinking, "he's helping Pike with the pain, or Pike has one last inspirational nugget to tell Kirk so he'll stop being a raging dickhead." Later on, we find out, no, it's
THAT SPOCK IS A CREEPY VOYUER WHO JUST WANTS TO FEEL SOMEONE DIE!!

I mean, wtf?? That Pike was feeling alone and confused and disappointed to be dying?? THAT'S not really surprising, is it? And that's his compelling argument to his girlfriend that he's keeping his emotions in check, 'cause, we're all alone you know, and, my planet and Mommy gots blown up, so there, but not because he's a FREAKING VULCAN and that's what they do, right?

Note to JJ: I really don't mind Spock & Uhura hooking up. Neither one seems really able to handle a workplace romance in a professional manner, but a visit from Starfleet Human Resources could clear that up. I mean, it's the 23rd century, right? And sure, JJ, you can rejigger the big E, make it huge and with  brewery for and engine room, whatever. But just name-checking "Mudd" and "Gorns" in the script, throwing the odd tribble on screen and making sure the we remember that Kirk is a mac-daddy DOES NOT MAKE IT STAR TREK. Just reversing the whole "who's dying in the radiation chamber and who's on the outside crying over it" does not make us happy. I thought the whole point of this alternate timeline was that you could make your own Trek, not just cherrypick classic moments and reshuffle them around.

True story - when I was 10, my friends and I spent the summer worrying about the "new" Star Trek that was coming. It was 1973 and the animated show was on it's way, and we were all convinced that it was going to be goofy, like "Scooby Doo" or Kirk was going to have a sidekick like Batmite on "The NEw Adventures of Batman." Lo and behold, when the first episode of TAS aired, we were blown away about how smart it was, and how much it just felt like Star Trek. Every time another movie came along, I felt the same pangs of fear, and as TMP through The Voyage Home came out, I nitpicked and carped like a good Trekkie should, but I learned to accept them into the fold. When it started coming back to TV, I really fell in love again, seeing a new version more like the old, and even when Enterprised disappointed me with it's crappy theme song or DS9 added a holographic character that made JarJar look clever, I could hang on to the good I saw.

JJ, you're breaking my heart. You can make a big movie, but you don't get Trek. He recently announced on TDS that he "didn't really like Star Trek."

Yeah, dude, we noticed. Please hand it back over to someone who actually does.

Offline FPF-Tobin Dax

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Re: Star Trek Into Darkness - Review and Discuss
« Reply #26 on: May 27, 2013, 02:19:17 pm »
I hadn't thought originally that the meld between Pike and Spock was creepy, but I see your point.  I think it's just another rushed, poorly done moment.

I hadn't been surprised by the meld as I was thinking he might provide Pike some comfort through the meld as well as the "pass some cheerleading thing" or wisdom onto to Kirk bit. However, something that gets lost here is that before Kirk gets recruited in the bar, who is Pike mentoring? Spock. In the 2009 movie is he not Pike's 1st officer? In classic trek Spock risks the death penalty to get Pike back to Talos IV for his well being. There's a Pike / Spock relationship here as well that predates and gets pushed back on screen in favor of the new Kirk mentoring bit.

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Offline Sirgod

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Re: Star Trek Into Darkness - Review and Discuss
« Reply #27 on: May 27, 2013, 11:00:11 pm »
One thing I thought was pretty cool...

Remember the whole Speech between Khan and his Helmsman in TWOK? I'll chase him around the moons of Nibia and partitions flames, etc. blah blah.

Anyone notice the name of the planet at the beginning of the movie?
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Offline Czar Mohab

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Re: Star Trek Into Darkness - Review and Discuss
« Reply #28 on: May 28, 2013, 10:04:40 am »
[nerd]

One thing I thought was pretty cool...

Remember the whole Speech between Khan and his Helmsman in TWOK? I'll chase him around the moons of Nibia and partitions flames, etc. blah blah.

Anyone notice the name of the planet at the beginning of the movie?

Quote from: Khan Noonien "Corinthian Leather" Singh
He tasks me. He tasks me and I shall have him! I'll chase him 'round the moons of Nibia and 'round the Antares Maelstrom and 'round Perdition's flames before I give him up!

Helmsman's name is Joachim[/nerd]

Now that that is out of the way...

I honestly think that JJ messed up royally with the ending as well. Everything else about the movie aside (let's pretend its good for a moment), the ending blew a HUGE opportunity for super-cash with the next installment. I don't know about you, but I don't really want to see what happens next. I've seen the original 5 year mission. I've read the books that fill in the gaps between episodes. There's not much left for Kirk and Co. to do, especially since this movie was essentially "The Wrath of the Space Seed of Khan".

Which brings me to the ending.

10 or so minutes from the end we have Spock and Khan fighting. Uhura beams down and zaps Khan. Spock is about to kill Khan when he's told that Khan must live to save Kirk. Spock punches Khan so hard that the camera cuts to black. Right here is where the movie should have ended. Seriously. Cut to black, roll credits. The next 8 minutes or so can then be expanded to 20 and form the beginnings of JJ Trek 3: The Search for More Cash. This ending would at least raise my curiosity about what happens next enough that I might actually want to see it. Yes, it will still suck, and I will still feel cheated as it will just be a rehash of Balance of Terror or some other already done and super awesome episode from the 5 year mission... But the seed would have been planted.

The ending now (and honestly the movie overall) does not make me want to see JJ Trek 3 in the theaters, if at all.

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Offline Nemesis

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Re: Star Trek Into Darkness - Review and Discuss
« Reply #29 on: May 28, 2013, 06:16:28 pm »
If you thin trek fans are picky, wait until star wars fans see what JJ does with star wars. If he boots that, he better lookout!

He is a Star Wars fan.

He should never go to a Trek convention if after butchering Trek he sticks by Star Wars canon.  Not if he wants to live.
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Offline TAnimaL

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Re: Star Trek Into Darkness - Review and Discuss
« Reply #30 on: May 28, 2013, 07:50:26 pm »
For the record, the planet at the beginning of the Into Darkness is "Nibiru," so any similarities to "the moons of Nibia" is probably coincidental.

As far as the "new" 5-year mission, I thought the whole point of the new timeline is that all bets are off and JJ can do what he wants, so I woudln't expect just a redo of seasons 1-3. After all, in JJ-verse, it's 2259, 7 years before the first season, and they already know or run into - Mudd, tribbles, Gorns and by dialogue in '09, are already aware that Romulans are off-shoots of the Vulcans.


Offline knightstorm

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Re: Star Trek Into Darkness - Review and Discuss
« Reply #31 on: May 28, 2013, 09:00:23 pm »
If you thin trek fans are picky, wait until star wars fans see what JJ does with star wars. If he boots that, he better lookout!

He is a Star Wars fan.

He should never go to a Trek convention if after butchering Trek he sticks by Star Wars canon.  Not if he wants to live.

Then he should do just that.  The sooner he dies, the sooner I can get to urinating on his grave.

Offline Sirgod

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Re: Star Trek Into Darkness - Review and Discuss
« Reply #32 on: May 29, 2013, 05:44:04 pm »
For the record, the planet at the beginning of the Into Darkness is "Nibiru," so any similarities to "the moons of Nibia" is probably coincidental.

As far as the "new" 5-year mission, I thought the whole point of the new timeline is that all bets are off and JJ can do what he wants, so I woudln't expect just a redo of seasons 1-3. After all, in JJ-verse, it's 2259, 7 years before the first season, and they already know or run into - Mudd, tribbles, Gorns and by dialogue in '09, are already aware that Romulans are off-shoots of the Vulcans.



My complete bad then, My hearing is pretty bad in my old age, So thanks for the correction there buddy.

Stephen
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Offline Sirgod

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Re: Star Trek Into Darkness - Review and Discuss
« Reply #33 on: May 29, 2013, 05:48:24 pm »
Dude, speaking of anti JJism. I was just told off by someone at the BCC forums for commenting on the same topic we have here. I mentioned how a lot of people in my theatre complained that the lens flare was too much. He told me I have no life, as a matter of fact he said all people who complained about JJ lens flare have less a life then the people who complain about Trekkies. Kind of called me an idiot too.
I had I tell him that my opinion of JJverse is directed to JJ n the movie not to the fans who like JJTrek. Eh. Made me mad.

Adam

Sheesh, you will find idiots anywhere. I mean, I enjoyed the movie some what more than those here, But I'd never in any way, dispute those who didn't care for it, as I've seen damn good reasons not to listed here.

This is why these boards are more like a home, No one is likely to be offended here.

I did notice, that one of my major gripes from the first movie , is what saved the crew in the second. In the first, all Kirk did was hang around, off of anything, he just hung off of things. In the new movie, his hanging kick knocked that doohickey (That's okie slang for high tech engineering devices on the Enterprise) and got power restored.

I suppose all those pull ups did some good.

Stephen
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Offline FPF-Tobin Dax

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Re: Star Trek Into Darkness - Review and Discuss
« Reply #34 on: May 29, 2013, 06:11:17 pm »
My son says the character is an android. I told him that I hoped he was just implanted along the lines of the binars.
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Offline Starfox1701

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Re: Star Trek Into Darkness - Review and Discuss
« Reply #35 on: May 29, 2013, 06:12:06 pm »
The doohickey would be the the anti matter injector assemble.

Offline FPF-Tobin Dax

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Re: Star Trek Into Darkness - Review and Discuss
« Reply #36 on: May 29, 2013, 06:12:16 pm »
Hmmm. Maybe Mr. Android/ implant guy is this timelines Norman? (coordinate)
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Offline TAnimaL

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Re: Star Trek Into Darkness - Review and Discuss
« Reply #37 on: May 29, 2013, 06:25:05 pm »
I was thinking of a Bynar too, although this one is like the supermodel of his species that shows up on Binar magazine covers, but a JJ-version of Norman sounds cool too. But he's just there because JJ liked the cantina bar scene from Star Wars...


ps ANOTHER thing I hated - the afore-mentioned doohickey. Being that it's the crucial part of the matter/ANTIMATTER warp core, shouldn't Kirk been, you know, VAPORISED? Forget radiation, that boy should be toast.

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Re: Star Trek Into Darkness - Review and Discuss
« Reply #38 on: May 29, 2013, 06:50:25 pm »
I was thinking of a Bynar too, although this one is like the supermodel of his species that shows up on Binar magazine covers, but a JJ-version of Norman sounds cool too. But he's just there because JJ liked the cantina bar scene from Star Wars...


ps ANOTHER thing I hated - the afore-mentioned doohickey. Being that it's the crucial part of the matter/ANTIMATTER warp core, shouldn't Kirk been, you know, VAPORISED? Forget radiation, that boy should be toast.

 Considering it was offline when he was kicking it, Id say nope. However the residual radiation was bad enough.



Offline FPF-Tobin Dax

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Re: Star Trek Into Darkness - Review and Discuss
« Reply #39 on: May 29, 2013, 08:53:13 pm »
I was thinking of a Bynar too, although this one is like the supermodel of his species that shows up on Binar magazine covers, but a JJ-version of Norman sounds cool too. But he's just there because JJ liked the cantina bar scene from Star Wars...


ps ANOTHER thing I hated - the afore-mentioned doohickey. Being that it's the crucial part of the matter/ANTIMATTER warp core, shouldn't Kirk been, you know, VAPORISED? Forget radiation, that boy should be toast.

 Considering it was offline when he was kicking it, Id say nope. However the residual radiation was bad enough.

But it comes online right away when his last kick does the trick, so Kirk should get annihilated.  :skeptic:
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