Topic: Star Trek Into Darkness - Review and Discuss

[TAnimaL]

After being called out for thread-hijacking and inserting an overall critique of Into Darkness in a "tech" thread, I thought it might be a good idea to have a thread specifically for discussion of the movie, now that it's going into release. Last time, in '09, there was a separate thread just for bashing ST XI, but I thought it would be... interesting to see a wider-themed discussion. For the record, I hated ST '09 at first, and everytime I've seen it since, and have low expectations for Into Darkness, but I'm planning on seeing it and judging it on it's own merits, and interested in what others here have to say about it.

[Sirgod]

I'm looking forward to it, even given all the problems with the last film. I just hope we see more capital ship battle footage than we have in previous films.

Stephen

[Sirgod]

There is a lot of truth to that Adam. The other thing I didn't like, was it seemed like Kirk just hung around all the time. After crashing the car, he hung around, On the mine ship he hung around, on the drill he hung around.

Plus he didn't seem like the Kirk we love who could take down an army with a well placed Kirk chop.

Stephen

[TAnimaL]

"Schadenfreude: enjoyment obtained from the troubles of others"
Sorry to hear your experience Captain Adam but not terribly surprised. Don't worry about spoilers here though, that's sorta why I wanted to see a thread devoted to this movie, to corral the discussion so we don't see spoilers elsewhere. So go ahead and vent.

I had planned to go over the weekend but my comrade-in-Trek was unavailable and had too much else going on, and will probably get to it this week.

[Corbomite]

Sounds like the worst fanfic ever, yet Entertainment Weekly gave it an A score and they usually hate everything that isn't an arthouse flick. As far as the incontinuities in plot and character behavior go - just remember their target audience and you will see why it is that way. They are obviously afraid to lay down anything too heavily highbrow or philisophical or even intelligent for fear of boring people. Just one more step away from the things that made ST stand out in the first place and gave it the legs to last this long.

[Starfox1701]

Well in comparison to other recent action movies it is alot alike. If you nothing about trek other then a few words you will probably love the film.

My biggest problem is that JJ actually didn't need Kahn. He had a reasonable serviceable bad guy in Admiral Marcus and a storyline that did not require this assed up retailing of TWOK. Instead this could have been about a young unproven Captain with problems following the rule discovering his boss is tiring to start a war with the Klingons. It would have been a chance to build up Kirks reputation with the Klingons as he gets them to side with him in stopping the bad guy. Better story, more original, in keeping with the character's historical choices, and you don't endup looking like an ego maniac remaking the most popular trek film of all time.

[FPF-DieHard]

Sounds like the worst fanfic ever, yet Entertainment Weekly gave it an A score and they usually hate everything that isn't an arthouse flick. As far as the incontinuities in plot and character behavior go - just remember their target audience and you will see why it is that way. They are obviously afraid to lay down anything too heavily highbrow or philisophical or even intelligent for fear of boring people. Just one more step away from the things that made ST stand out in the first place and gave it the legs to last this long.

I loved the 2009 film, this one was disappointing.  it wasn't as terrible as Iron Man 3 though.

Forget the ridiculous breaches "cannon" as I can accept that, there was just so much dumb sh*t in this movie that didn't make sense.

1.5 out of 4 stars.

[Corbomite]

I loved the 2009 film...

I don't know how you can say that with a straight face.

[Martothir]

I actually sorta liked this one. Especially compared to the 2009 film which I still can't watch. Perhaps because I went in with low expectations? But I thought this one was truer to Trek in regards to themes like loyalty, friendship, and sacrifice. Don't get me wrong, it had problems.

[SPOILERS]

For example, a few huge plot holes:

*Towards the beginning of the movie one of the 'brass' at Starfleet Command has a bunch of model ships on his desk. It's mostly old Enterprise ships in sequence, with the Phoenix thrown in for good measure. At the end of the sequence of ships, there is a model of the super secret dreadnaught Vengeance which is the villain ship in the movie. No one stops and says, "Whoa, what the hell is that ship class? I haven't seen it in the fleet before!" They just ignore it. Why Starfleet personnel would ignore an unknown ship class is beyond me.

*Towards the end of the movie, the Enterprise was falling to the Earth, dead in space. Not a single Starfleet ship is seen assisting it. Nevermind that there was just a terrorist attack on Earth. No one ship is to be found in orbit. It makes no sense.

*Why did they have to chase Khan for his regenerative blood? They had 72 other eugenics types in storage? Why not draw some of their blood? No need to chase Khan except dramatic effect.


But all those things said, I thought the film generally felt more Trekky than 2009's installment. There were some painfully bad moments; Spock's "Khan" yell was one. Anything saying by Bones was another.

I really felt they mishandled the death scene. Were they trying to recreate it or reimagine it? It felt like a bad in between. It was different enough from the original that it wasn't a recreation. But it didn't differ so much that it was really a reimagining. It was just a bad emulation at best. I felt liked they dropped the ball in this scene more than any other. I mean, for one its too early in the series to do it. We haven't been with these characters long enough for it to have emotional impact. Even if we had, don't make it a cheap knockoff anyway. Meh.

I walked away *not angry,* which is a big thing for me. I felt like it was a step in the right direction, towards a more story driven Trek, but still not the Trek I would like. The stupid flying through space for the blatant purpose of the 3D experience/video game tie in is a pure example of that.

[Starfox1701]

Knowing JJ you are liable to get both in the next film

[Czar Mohab]

--WARNING CONTAINS SPOILERS--

What the crap was this...??????

2 minutes. GIANT PLOT HOLE in less than 2 minutes of movie. "Don't forget the Prime Directive while you're down there," says Spock as he's about to be lowered into a volcano to stop it from wiping out an indigenous people. "We wouldn't want to interfere with the natural development of the natives." The next 8 minutes only rip the hole WAY more open... Seriously? We can't violate the PD from orbit? 

Udar was a better Augment than JJ's Khan. And he only had super hearing. The security guard busting Scotty was of the appropriate shape for an augment.

OK - so what's with the Klingons? How did the altered timeline alter them?

If I'm on a ship in a more or less stable orbit around a planet and lose stabilizers guess what happens? I STAY IN BLOODY ORBIT! I'm not going any further on this ... scene.

Why is Admiral Akbar guarding the brig?

Why are there barcode scanner guns all over the ship (most notably the pair on the Helm, and 4 others on the bridge)? OK, I get we need to use today's things to show us the future, but couldn't we at least try to hide them better? Or give them a purpose? In Generations Picard's "son" is playing with a toy that I remember seeing commercials for (it was from the Aliens movie that came out just before) but at least it looked like it belonged... and had a purpose... These barcode scanners make me think the crew is going to be registering for a baby shower or wedding or something...

and

I'm just glad that I wasn't the only one to notice.

Don't get me started on the ship. Which one? Does it really matter? There's sooooooo much wrong with both of them... Tip of the iceburg

Bill Shatner and Leonard Nemoy did it first and did it best. The real Khan sold us "real Corinthian leather" in our cars. ... I can safely believe, after seeing this mess, that no matter what Lucas did to Star Wars (HAN SHOT FIRST DAMMIT!!!), JJ is going to desecrate that franchise...

I have to cut this rant short. Seriously I found one thing to like about the movie. Carol Marcus. Not saying she's hotter or better than the original. Just saying that she was the best part of the movie  Everything else, even the Tribble (my cat can hoark up something better), was sub par for a Trek movie. The worst non-JJ Trek episode/movie is better than this one.

The Czar
P.S. Here is that toy I mentioned earlier. My appologies for not finding the clip from the movie...

Aliens Action Figures Toy Commercial from 1993

P.P.S. I do sincerely want to like the JJ Trek... It has potential... I just can't with '09 and ID...

[TheStressPuppy]

Can someone tell me how in the hell TWO dead ships. In damn near LUNAR ORBIT. More, or less at a dead stop right above the freaking MOON! Get sucked into Earths gravity well. Travel to Earth from the moon in less than FIVE minutes with NO POWER! Damn near crash on earth! Meanwhile the crippled "uber ship" almost collides with the big E at the same spot right above San Francisco. Starfleet Headquarters must be at the center of this huge ass gravity well, because everything in JJ Trek seems to gravitate towards it. From the Narada, To the Big E. To The Death Star, err I mean the "Black Knight", err i mean.. Ah Hell its yet another Ubership the size of a freaking Borg Cube.

I suppose if a JJ Trek 3 is made the Klingon "ubership" will be the size of Vger.

Dont get me wrong the movie was "Entertaining" despite the "Been there, Done that" plot. Its just it has plot holes the size of a black hole.

[TAnimaL]

Can someone tell me how in the hell TWO dead ships. In damn near LUNAR ORBIT. More, or less at a dead stop right above the freaking MOON! Get sucked into Earths gravity well.

Oh, Stress, thank you, I needed that laugh right now...

Just saw today, still thinking about it, and mostly not polite thoughts, but, um.... the music wasn't bad. Some early scenes actually sounded in the style of TOS.

And, uh... I liked the little trails left after the ship goes into warp...

I have many more thigns to say, but, for now, this "FAQ" kinda speaks for me..
http://io9.com/star-trek-into-darkness-the-spoiler-faq-508927844?utm_source=recirculation&utm_medium=recirculation&utm_campaign=afternoon

[manitoba1073]

Can someone tell me how in the hell TWO dead ships. In damn near LUNAR ORBIT. More, or less at a dead stop right above the freaking MOON! Get sucked into Earths gravity well. Travel to Earth from the moon in less than FIVE minutes with NO POWER! Damn near crash on earth! Meanwhile the crippled "uber ship" almost collides with the big E at the same spot right above San Francisco. Starfleet Headquarters must be at the center of this huge ass gravity well, because everything in JJ Trek seems to gravitate towards it. From the Narada, To the Big E. To The Death Star, err I mean the "Black Knight", err i mean.. Ah Hell its yet another Ubership the size of a freaking Borg Cube.

I suppose if a JJ Trek 3 is made the Klingon "ubership" will be the size of Vger.

Dont get me wrong the movie was "Entertaining" despite the "Been there, Done that" plot. Its just it has plot holes the size of a black hole.

 Sure can tell you, as its fairly obvious. They were not stuck in moon orbit. They still had some ability to maneuver, The Enterprise happened to lose all power after it had headed to Earth from the moon. And so did the Dreadnaught.

[Starfox1701]

Can someone tell me how in the hell TWO dead ships. In damn near LUNAR ORBIT. More, or less at a dead stop right above the freaking MOON! Get sucked into Earths gravity well.

Oh, Stress, thank you, I needed that laugh right now...

Just saw today, still thinking about it, and mostly not polite thoughts, but, um.... the music wasn't bad. Some early scenes actually sounded in the style of TOS.

And, uh... I liked the little trails left after the ship goes into warp...

I have many more thigns to say, but, for now, this "FAQ" kinda speaks for me..
http://io9.com/star-trek-into-darkness-the-spoiler-faq-508927844?utm_source=recirculation&utm_medium=recirculation&utm_campaign=afternoon

Wow now all we need is an Honest Trailer.

[TheStressPuppy]

It seemed pretty ridiculous to me. I know it was a plot device to set up the literal "kick starting" of the warp core. The part that got me the most was the almost mid air collision of the big E, and the dreadnought. I just said "you got to be kidding me".

Like i said the movie was pretty entertaining, but it does have its facepalm moments.

[Czar Mohab]

Dont get me wrong the movie was "Entertaining" despite the "Been there, Done that" plot. Its just it has plot holes the size of a black hole.

Since black holes are supposed to range in size from 0.1mm to 400AU, I have to assume that you intend your comment to mean the bigger, 400AU black holess; however, I must point out that there were plot holes of varying sizes and intensity, and, therefore, we can easily assume that the vast majority of the spectrum of black hole sizes was represented in this movie, provided your analogy is taken literally.

I also have a very nerdy explanation as to why the "fall to Earth" just isn't very believable, but I don't want to out-nerd myself. Suffice to say that it just doesn't make any sense to me, either.

Should also add a few of these with these two face-palms.

The Czar

[knightstorm]

Why are there barcode scanner guns all over the ship (most notably the pair on the Helm, and 4 others on the bridge)? OK, I get we need to use today's things to show us the future, but couldn't we at least try to hide them better? Or give them a purpose? In Generations Picard's "son" is playing with a toy that I remember seeing commercials for (it was from the Aliens movie that came out just before) but at least it looked like it belonged... and had a purpose... These barcode scanners make me think the crew is going to be registering for a baby shower or wedding or something...

and

Well, they need the barcode scanners if they're going to be selling iphones.

[FPF-Tobin Dax]

I thought that it was better than Nemesis.  I couldn't believe that anyone could have made as bad a film as Nemesis. I can believe that someone could make as bad a film as this. I'm just disappointed that it happened. I feel ripped off here. I went back for seconds of 2009. 2009 was stupid fun. This was just stupid and insulting. Once will be more than enough. I keep reading other comments and reviews glowing about homages. Screw that! The alternate timeline was supposed to free them up to right new adventures, not boldly twist where we have gone before. Lame, bankrupt effort.

[TheStressPuppy]

Before i saw the film i was already spoiled on it. I saw the rants about the film redoing old stuff, but with a twist, and i thought hey it was bound to happen, and it was JJ giving the fans what they demanded, and wanted... Well in this case I think JJ Abrams made a HUGE mistake.

Trek fans are the most Nit Picky, and Unforgiving critics on the face of the earth. I am convinced that nothing will satisfy us. No matter how original, or how much effort is put into a show, or movie. Someone will always find something to complain about, or say "This isn't Star Trek, because it doesn't have this, or that, or it does this, or that inconstantly of Trek canon", and that complaining will just rise to fever pitch. Just like it did for DS-9, Voyager, Enterprise, and especially Nemesis.

 In Into Darkness case the fans do have a reason to bitch. We already knew that this is NOT Star Trek like we knew it before. So why the hell did JJ Abrams cave in, and give the fans what they wanted?. People demanded KHAAAAAAAAAAN!!!!!!! and he delivered. Unfortunately his delivery IMO was an abysmal failure.

I usually don't follow the rank, and file, and i actually LIKED 2009, but in this case i have to agree with the rants. Especially Bernard Schneiders. After seeing the movie a second time (for free). I was astounded by how UN-original Into Darkness was. Almost a bad carbon copy of Wrath of KHAAAAAAAAAAAN!!! but they just tossed a Rogue Admiral in it to say "see this is different". However we already had Rogue Admirals before too. The only thing "Original" here is the Big-E gets its ass royally handed to itself.

There is so much that could have been done in the new rebooted universe. Instead Into Darkness "Boldly went where we all have been before". Except it tried to use the non-stop action, and "coolness" to hide horrible writing, and re-telling of an old story.