Topic: Opinion for Gaming

[[UFP]Exeter]

My intent is to design the game to run on a DX11 GPU that supports the use of the GPU for number cruching, such as collision.  And dual core for the rest.  An DX11 for the graphics.

Anything less should run but not the best

[TheStressPuppy]

The only issue with 32 bit mode is the 2 gig ram limit. Sins of a Solar Empire found this out the hard way. If you can scale down the textures, and meshes for 32 bit. I don't see any issue. We have done decent work in 32 bit for years.

[Starfox1701]

32b it should'nt limit the ram to 2 gig. Fleet ops got Armada 2 to run on 3 gig at 32 bit

[[UFP]Exeter]

The issue will be paging and virtual memory, death to a game.  We need to use effective memory management.  And I am not adverse to saying 64 bit if that is what it takes.

The limit is for 32 bit 4 gig of total addressable memory, including graphics etc. But in reality PAE extends the addressable range on 32 bit os to 64G, if enabled.

For our purposes, we want the combat portion of the game to run in the RAM.  Smaller the better.

[Starfox1701]

dumb question when you say smaller is better do you mean the memory used or the memory available?

[[UFP]Exeter]

for combat we do not want any paging or virtual memory swaps AT ALL.  So the less memory used he better.   But this is the most memory intesive portion of the game.  My estimates are 4G RAM.  This should leave about 2G for the game on Windows 7.  But as we get closer we will run some tests.

[TheStressPuppy]

This is where optimization will be very important. Try not to cram too much into the game just "because you can". Just because you can run a 100,000 triangle mesh doesn't mean you should. When a 10k mesh with good textures can do the very same job using much less resources. There are ways to optimize code too, but i don't know much about that. I just know it can be done.

[Starfox1701]

for combat we do not want any paging or virtual memory swaps AT ALL.  So the less memory used he better.   But this is the most memory intesive portion of the game.  My estimates are 4G RAM.  This should leave about 2G for the game on Windows 7.  But as we get closer we will run some tests.

What causes paging or virtual memory swaps?

[[UFP]Exeter]

Memory is used in chunks, so if a chunk is not being used and another program or process needs it, that page is saved to the hard drive and the memory is free.  This is the pagefile.  An example if you have multiple programs running and the current one needs more, it will take the least used and save it to a pagefile. 

Virtual takes some of the hard drive and treats it as an extension to memory.  So you can make the system appear to have 16G or more when it only has 2G.  Typically stack or heap data is stored here, but if you run over then the virtual is used.

If a player has multiple things at one running, then a pagefile could be used.  Nothing we can do about this, except have accurate memory requirements.

Virtual, if we use dll's where we can, and create our own heap and control the memory we can minimize the use of virtual, or even use it to our advantage.  Also, offloading the physics to the GPU will help.  However, an integrated graphics that uses the system RAM will not be the best.

For development I am running a 64 bit system with 8G ram, so my tools load and I can run the game and  observe memory usage.  But I am developing the game as a 32 bit program.

[EschelonOfJudgemnt]

A thought...

These days, we are seeing the PC computer industry's sales numbers plummeting, as more and more people are jumping on the tablet bandwagon.

I'm sure that there are users out there that would love an SFC-ish experience on their tablets, or possibly even smartphones although I would think everything would end up being so tiny that trying to do energy allocation, etc. on a smartphone might be a little frustrating.

My point is, this is the wave of the future, and I can see some good sales opportunities for tablet based games.  With this being the case, any such design would need to be 'scaled' performance wise to perform well on a tablet.  This is a relatively untapped market that should be considered.

That being said, the IPad that my job provided me I only use for business, but I see a LOT of people jumping on the tablet bandwagon these days.

Also, desktops are becoming relative dinosaurs, as laptops have become much more versatile, with better/more port options as well as better CPU & Graphics performance.  I know I'm stating the obvious here, but my point is that high poly counts and higher memory requirements won't fly on ultraportable systems very well, and that is where a good share of the market is these days.

Personally, I haven't relied, or really used much,  a desktop computer in almost a decade now, ever since AMD raised the bar r.e. mobile graphics performance and made decently performing graphics solutions on a laptop affordable, forcing Intel and NVidia to follow suit.  Do keep in mind that I do some sound mixing on my laptops, which can be rather CPU intensive, and the laptops have done fine.  I'm sure I could find slightly better performance on a desktop system, but my laptops provide more than adequate performance for my needs.

Food for thought.

[Captain Adam]

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[[UFP]Exeter]

I have noticed that business are turning away for pads as production slows down.  The Windows 8 touch pad is terrible for real work.  I have tried them and hate them.  It is a revolution the computer industry is driving and I do not see it as the wave of the future.

I agree with laptops ovr desktops.  In fact I use only laptops now, and major companies are going the route of laptops.  The game is being coded on a laptop, by the way.

As for Windows 8, not a chance.  The game should run on Windows 8, but the OS is garbage.

[Captain Adam]

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[TheStressPuppy]

Desktops may have lost their utility over the years, but there is still no better platform to use for PC gaming. Mainly because the most powerful laptop still doesn't come close in performance to a desktop with equal specs. Though to give laptops credit they did come a long way. Plus if something breaks on a PC like the video card you can always get a new card. A laptop if something breaks you trash the entire laptop.

[[UFP]Exeter]

With laptops if you spend the money for a very high end one, hey do well for years.  Also the utility, I use mine at home and work.

[Captain Adam]

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[[UFP]Exeter]

I did the same thing yeas ago, and I like it.  Nice 18" screen and DX11.  Only problem with most laptops is they share memory between CPU and GPU rather than dedicated GPU memory.  That does affect performance some.

[Starfox1701]

Well if the game as great graphic and can preform on a good laptop the imagine what it will do unchained on a high en d desktop.

[Captain Adam]

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[TheStressPuppy]

My rig is an i5 2.5 gig laptop with 6 gigs ram, and an intel graphics 3000 chip. Though it is kind of dated. It still serves its purpose until i can build a new gaming rig. I can play Skyrim, Dead Space 1, 2, 3, Supreme Commander, and Mass effect 1, 2, 3 on it with very little trouble. Older games are a cakewalk.

I would rather play games on a good desktop rig with a big ass monitor ( or a 32 inch+ 1080p LCD tv), surround sound. Sitting in a nice comfy chair in my "man cave".