Topic: Question regarding GSC

[Bernard Guignard]

The blueprints of the Uprated Federation class  shows that  while the Saucer is the same dia as the Constitution refit
the Bridge and  B-C deck structure are larger, the Secondary hull is slightly longer and she has Twin photon torp tubes
Fore and AFT

http://www.cygnus-x1.net/links/lcars/blueprints/starship-design-sheet-10.jpg

[TAnimaL]

I like those choices, you did a nice job distributing them.

My only quibble, and it's purely a personal one, is the Constellation as HDW, because it's "my" ship that I've been flying since 1988. I see it more as a NCA, being as large as it it (305m), and I'll confess I don't know the Nitocris at all. Since there is a CB, Lexington can still go there, and there's a ship I can't quite remember at the moment, a 4-nacelle Fed, that could go into the HDW, but maybe it'll come to me later. That's just my 2 cents though, due to my bias.

[TAnimaL]

I can see it as an overpowered wartime NCL.

That's interesting, because that's exactly what a NCA is, in SFB terms - a overpowered wartime constructed ship to replace CAs, using NCL parts.

Now, that's not what I think a Constellation is; after all, some of them are still in service in the 2360s, which runs contrary to the "wartime construction" ethos.

[knightstorm]

I can see it as an overpowered wartime NCL.

That's interesting, because that's exactly what a NCA is, in SFB terms - a overpowered wartime constructed ship to replace CAs, using NCL parts.

Now, that's not what I think a Constellation is; after all, some of them are still in service in the 2360s, which runs contrary to the "wartime construction" ethos.

I get the impression that the Constellation class wasn't in continuous service, and that ships could be mothballed for decades before being reactivated.  Also, I don't think the liberty ship comparison is the best.  I think a better comparison would be the Independence class light carriers.  One was still in service in a foreign navy in the 1980s.

[TAnimaL]

making the Constellation a HDW is ok, just not what I'd do. As some alternatives:

The U.S.S. Apache FDX Destroyer by pneumonic81

The FCHE, also by pneumonic81

or the USS Baker HDW 4 engine variant by D'deridex

All nice 4 engine Feds.

[Age]

The Miranda is actually a NCM a medium cruiser wihch is just powerfull as large cruiser but has a smaller crew just like the Soyuz.

[Lieutenant_Q]

I would probably switch the Abbe (TACPOD) with the Saladin.  The Saladin is more of a true destroyer than the Abbe is, the Saladin is designed to take a bit of a beating, while the Abbe has more firepower, but seems far more fragile.

[TAnimaL]

I personally discount single-engine ships (not canon) but Saladin is sorta "grandfathered" in as part of Trek lore, so I like Saladins as older DDs and Abbe as the DW, like LtQ suggests, but I'd disagree over durability. The Abbe looks more rugged to me, and with the upper pod, has more variant possibilities than the Saladin.

I don't know all those ships by name, I'll have to spend some time on looking them over..

[Age]

Yes Age. We know the Miranda is a NCM but I need to fill an entire class not just one slot.

You still refer to it an an NCL instead of an NCM.What are you trying to do mkae up your own shiplist?I like the Chris Jones Shiplist in UU Legacey TOS/TMP era.

[TAnimaL]

By it's size, it sure seems big enough to be a DN or maybe even a BB, but there's no Excelsior in SFB; chronologically, it should at least be a X-BC, but there's none of those in SFB either. Use as you see fit.

[knightstorm]

Mr. Scott's guide to the Enterprise refers to the Excelsior as a BB.

[Starfox1701]

Excelsior is also referred to as an SCS in the Mastercom books. Considering that she has several large shuttle bays this is another possibility. It would fit as Excelsior's torpedo loadout is rather light for a ship here size in the tmp time frame. Ingrahm (NX-2001) also included a variant warp drive and mega phasers on the pylons

[Age]

I would say it is more like long range exploration cruiser and I don't think Starfleet has any DN or BBs.

[Age]

I am just referring to the canon od Star Trek as they don't DNs or BBs because a photon does the same amout of dmge fired from any ship.

I know you are talking about SFB/SFC.

[Starfox1701]

Starfleet calls BBs and DNs Explorers because it is more politically correct but there is no doubt the the Galaxy class is the Battleship of her age. 3 ten round burst fire torpedo launchers with a reload rat of 1 round a half second and more than 600 individual type X phaser emitters  in 12 arrays with 360X360 degree coverage and the power to put 3 or more beams on target with every firing do not a pure science vessel make. The Sovereign is even more well armed. with nearly a third more emitters of a more advanced type and 8 total torpedo launcher and a permanent complement of quantum torpedoes.

[Corbomite]

I think the Galaxy Class is a DN/BB hull, but not a true DN/BB because of all the passengers/families and science/recreation facilities. In Tin Man, the Excelsior Class captain chides Ryker for getting soft on 'that luxury liner' and in Yesterday's Enterprise Tasha Yar inadvertantly describes many of the differences between a wartime Galaxy and a peace time one; replicators on low power to save energy for defenses, greater shield heat dissipation rates etc. It is obvious that Starfleet has a wartime package available for all their ship classes that they cannot install unless in an actual wartime stance. Some ships, like the Defiant, that are built as pure warships cause them issues with their neighbors. Didn't Sisko have to do some fast talking to get the Defiant out of mothballs because Starfleet isn't allowed to build pure warships? And did you see how fast the Feds became militarized when they went to war with the Klingons and then the Dominion?

[Lieutenant_Q]

Given that the timeline changed almost immediately following the disappearance of the Enterprise-C it would stand to reason that the Galaxy class, which may have been in the drawing board phase at the time, was redone to remove all the luxuries and replace them with more combat facilities, as the Klingons were probably quite agitated that the Enterprise said they were responding to the distress call, but never showed... damn Federation Cowards.

Most of the older ships (Miranda Excelsior Ambassador) probably didn't need any refitting beyond keeping their technology level up to date.  The Galaxy and Nebula would have needed some kind of refit to drop all the non-essentials, but ships designed after Wolf 359 (And J-25) were already being designed with encounters with the Borg in mind, so probably didn't need any refit at all.

[TAnimaL]

I concur with Corbomite and Lt Q that the Galaxy-class is just a refit away from being a BB, and that the Federation is no stranger to war and its necessities, but rather than think they were "understating" it's role as a "politically correct" move, I think Starfleet has a different perspective than ours. How many times did Picard, Sisko  & Janeway et.al. say in an episode that "Starfleet's mission is peaceful exploration." They are not a military in the way we think (at Roddenberry's insistence). Yes, they use a command managerial hierarchy, and they prove that when they have to, like with the Klingons or Dominion wars, they can arm up and slug it out when they have to, but I don't think they are "hiding" their ship strengths. Starfleet is "allowed" to build warships, they just don't, until something like the Borg comes along. The only issue, IIRC, about the Defiant was that it had a cloak, which was forbidden to the Federation under treaty, so Sisko wasn't supposed to use the cloak in the Alpha Quadrant (but he did anyway). I suppose in  a way, that sort of treaty illustrates this idea - Starfleet was willing to go along with giving up cloak tech because they didn't want it; that is, until a rogue unit decided to build their own in secret anyway. (To retcon this, I think that the Pegasus and the phased cloak was a Section 31 action...)

It's worth noting, the "radio chatter" in ST:TMP at Epsilon 9 included a call to the "Dreadnaught Entante NCC-2120." So, there's seems to be DNs in Kirk's time at least.

[TAnimaL]

this is turning into a potato/pohtato discussion - it's not that the Galaxy isn't a well-armed, kickbutt ship (because it is), is that it's not a "battleship." It's not propaganda if the Federation sticks to it's principles either. They might use some naval parlance for ship types but it's not "military" vs "science." The error in thinking is that a scientific, exploratory ship can't also be armed to the teeth; based on what Starfleet has learned while exploring space, it's just smart.

When it comes to this game, yes, a Galaxy is like a BB, but that's just a slot to compare it to other races. Since all DN/SCS/CVA/BB share the same "Dreadnought" slot, that's were it should live in the shiplist.

I really do believe the Federation's Starfleet doesn't just switch classifications willy-nilly. In TNG times, there is a large ship called an "Explorer;" the Klingons or Dominion might consider it a BB, but not the Fede. They don't do war until they have to.

[knightstorm]

The Galaxy class is probably at least a DN in terms of firepower, however as I have said previously I tend to view diplomacy as being prioritized above combat in its design.  All of that useless #$%% like petting zoos is meant to impress diplomats.