Topic: Can a tholian starship be created High-Poly?

[Atolm-Rising]

Out of curiosity I have an easy tos tholian scout ship/patrol vessel (like a cutter), but i cannot see how o make the ship render worthy (with another High poly), as it is a tholian ship?
 Here is the vessel in question:

 

[Klingon Fanatic]

Certainly looks like a Tholian. Enterprise series concept art perhaps? I have no doubt it can be done by one of the remaining non-Federation modle makers still around.

Always nice to see a non-Federation ship.

Thanks for sharing this with us.

[pepperman]

Other than modelling in the vents on the forward section of the ship, there doesn't seem to be many place to add modeling details.  You could model in some plating similar to the way the Tholian Webslinger was done and give it a good weather texturing job.

http://www.shipschematics.net/startrek/images/tholian/tholian_webslinger.jpg

[manitoba1073]

you could do some greebles, but it would be better off with hi-res textures. That is just my opinion ofcourse.

[Atolm-Rising]

See I think Mani hit it right...you can only do a really high res texture with it.
the reason I'm asking, is that I have a friend who has a great hipoly Suyra class and he's looking for a tholian to match... so I drew up the tholian, and actually have a basic mesh of the ship's shape already built, but I can only do so much for hi poly and hi res textures.
Thanks for the feedback mates.

[Norsehound]

I think Tholian ships are better using just simple shapes anyway.

The basic webspinner from Tholian web is still my favorite Tholian out of everything outside of Klingon Academy. Even over the newfangled replacements.

[Atolm-Rising]

I think Tholian ships are better using just simple shapes anyway.

The basic webspinner from Tholian web is still my favorite Tholian out of everything outside of Klingon Academy. Even over the newfangled replacements.

exactly, but if you had to do a render or even a fan movie, you need something to make it comparable to the Connie in terms of presence... such a simple shape, is fine, but then you need something, otherwise the ship is like 14 polies, while a Connie an be over easily 100k.

[GotAFarmYet?]

Well you could make it semi hi-poly you still will not get as many as the Connie because you have allot of flat areas were the Connie is round
You could make the Tholian more cone shaped and then extend the protrusions from there. smooth and round the sharp edges will also increase the count. Add cuts and inlays in the flats as well and you can detail it up pretty well. Mapping will be a pain though if you do that

[markyd]

Hey Atolm,

  Do you mind if I have a crack at making it high poly..

Made the lower poly mesh..

But I think I can make a high poly one of these tonight, I'll upload the mesh here when done, it will have a low poly cage so mapping will be easier and it will be able to be backward compatable for use in games.

Such as SFC 

[markyd]

I think in answer to your orginal question... Yes it can...

this basic model sits at 17k polies, the advantage being the massive reduction in HARD edges, as no edge is 100% sharp, a lower poly mesh would show that on a quality reder.. anyway it not finished, but it proves the point i think.

I may continue with it, not sure. (I like the design mate)

[Bernard Guignard]

Looking real good

[Atolm-Rising]

Wow that looks mint!

[markyd]

Thanks, ill start adding in some detail and see how it looks, how much detail were you thinking? Ent type of tholian or tos type?

[Terradyhne]

Thanks, ill start adding in some detail and see how it looks, how much detail were you thinking? Ent type of tholian or tos type?

Markyd, nice start

i tryed to make one to but got only to 1076 polys with the detail i'm willing to add






i could model in the squares for the warpgrills but i'm to lazy for such things 

[Atolm-Rising]

Thanks, ill start adding in some detail and see how it looks, how much detail were you thinking? Ent type of tholian or tos type?

TOS mate... As she has to stand up to scrutiny in a scene with a high-poly Surya-Class, to simulate an actual show scene.

[Atolm-Rising]

Thanks, ill start adding in some detail and see how it looks, how much detail were you thinking? Ent type of tholian or tos type?

Markyd, nice start

i tryed to make one to but got only to 1076 polys with the detail i'm willing to add






i could model in the squares for the warpgrills but i'm to lazy for such things 

Terra, you too are amazing. 

[markyd]

Thanks, ill start adding in some detail and see how it looks, how much detail were you thinking? Ent type of tholian or tos type?

Markyd, nice start

i tryed to make one to but got only to 1076 polys with the detail i'm willing to add






i could model in the squares for the warpgrills but i'm to lazy for such things 

Nicely done mate, hope you decide to texture it too :-)

Thanks, ill start adding in some detail and see how it looks, how much detail were you thinking? Ent type of tholian or tos type?

TOS mate... As she has to stand up to scrutiny in a scene with a high-poly Surya-Class, to simulate an actual show scene.

Ok cool, Ill keep details to a minimum then.

[markyd]

Rebuilt the model today, prefer the new mesh, its cleaner and i learnt some things in the process. Took a bit more time with it. So will start detailing tonight.

No more detail than the sketch is that correct?

[markyd]

More progress, poly count 153K 

So I am unsure as to how to detail as the only ref image for a TOS Tholian is the generic one, that looks like one shape, with a couple of grooves and some lighting to make it look interesting.

Are you thinking that this ship should look constructed? Pieces and elements... or more stone and natural like?

Thanks 

[manitoba1073]

Tholians are beings of crystals. Maybe the grow there ships in the way crystals are formed. Something along that line of thought, though I think that could be more of a texture styled set-up more than a poly.

[markyd]

Tholians are beings of crystals. Maybe the grow there ships in the way crystals are formed. Something along that line of thought, though I think that could be more of a texture styled set-up more than a poly.

Hey MANI, long time m8 

Yeah I agree with your input on the Tholian m8, I understand the background etc, but ATOLMS ship looks more constructed than naturally grown (grills etc) ... 

Its gotta be one or the other? or is it a bit of both...?   Tholians grow the main bit, then retro fit etc? 

Anyway it makes a big difference as to where i go next on the mesh, and the communities collective idea of Tholians, more importantly though Atolms vision for the render his friend is producing... whats the desired output?

Do we have a simple generic, stone looking ship with some details?

Do we have a stone themed ship with constructed features?

Do we go ENT on it, and give it windows and greebles :-)

I'll leave that decision to the artist himself 

[manitoba1073]

I still lurk the forums all the time lol.

I think that model you have now is near perfect as can be actually, The textures are where it will seal it all up.

You know since you brought the stoned them up, lol, I do think only the monsters in EaW and OP might have been the closest thing to that, I don't recall any other races even close to that.

 On the crystals as I was mentioning, it would be similar to paneling on any other races ships. Just that it would have that crystal look to it, instead of say looking like metal paneling. No the greebles might be something to look at once it gets done, as a visual check to see how itd look.

[Atolm-Rising]

Hey MarkyD that;s looking sweet.
you may want to use this for some hull details (notice the hull details, the ship seems to have a opalescent striations):
http://www.flickriver.com/photos/tags/tholianweb/interesting/

http://drexfiles.files.wordpress.com/2009/05/tholian-starship-the-tholian-web-5.jpg?w=655

[pepperman]

I assume this thread is related ...

http://www.scifi-meshes.com/forums/showthread.php?79750-New-Tholian-Ship-Needed

[Atolm-Rising]

I assume this thread is related ...

http://www.scifi-meshes.com/forums/showthread.php?79750-New-Tholian-Ship-Needed

Aye mate.  Bolian Admiral is doing a fan series with a Surya-Class called the USS Gemini... He asked me to design the ship (needless to say I did ).  although, I like my tholians a bit more elaborate, nevertheless i did it as per spec.  it was then posed to me if I could model a high poly tholian... I think to myself, "is that even possible?  I mean its a TOS tholian ship!"  So here I am posing the question to you guys, who are far more knowledgeable on these things (originally I tossed the question to Tus, we talked a bit on it, then decided I'd better ask here).
It's a cool project that has brought up some intriguing things... For instance, I never realized that in TNG the ep with the Sheliak, it was established that the Federation first encountered them during Pike's era (this came up as cool idea with the tholian having a territorial conflict with the sheliak... Needless to say,  I'm working on a TOS sheliak design as well).

[Antivyrus]

Looking great Markyd. Cant wait to see the textures

[pepperman]

It has certainly got a lot of us thinking Tholian ships to be sure.     Before now, I never gave them much thought but I love it when creative minds come together.  Markyd, great work on the mesh so far.  It will be interesting to see where you and Atolm take this one. 

[markyd]

Thanks,

  I will clean the mesh up a little this weekend, Ill model the grill effect for the rear glow area, and detail in some lines on the hull as shown in the REF image. Im going to try and make my own texture, a stoney crystal feel keeping it looking as much like the TOS hull as possible.

What colour were you thinking for the glows?

[Atolm-Rising]

Reddish mate... In TOS, they had a subtle reddish hue.

[Starfox1701]

If you are looking to add a more stone like look to her you can try grant counter tops for the hull and jewels fro the warp grills and lettering. I tried somthing like that a few years back if you are interested
http://www.dynaverse.net/forum/index.php/topic,163390686.0.html
I'd offer the textures but they are currently taped on a HD I cant get to work

[markyd]

Thanks mate, the textures will be a little less stonelike though as I am trying to keep it like the textures on the original TOS. Will continue work on it this weekend.

[Age]

That is better than the box ones Cryptic has players buying.Pretty nice Head Waffler and I want some.

[markyd]

Thanks Age..

Does anyone here use Max 2009?

I am currently having an issue with this it crashing all the time on my laptop and its having a massive effect on getting anything done. Im sure max 2009 was ok my desktop.