Topic: In Need of a Professional Opinion

[Czar Mohab]

Okay - a bit of background first (the short version):

I spend FOREVER researching, looking for, and eventually finding a new motherboard to upgrade/build a better system. One of the major considerations was to have the ability to move (rather than replace or duplicate) as many pieces of the current build as possible into the new build... This is to keep up front costs down but leave both systems open for future work. The key to this plan is the CPU, the socket and the associated chipset.

This is the old board: http://www.asus.com/Motherboards/Intel_Socket_775/P5GD1VM/

This is the new board: http://www.asus.com/Motherboards/Intel_Socket_775/P5K3_DeluxeWiFiAP/

The original plan was to transplant the P4 3.4GHz temporarily into the new board along with other transferable components (vid card, optical drive, etc.) until I could afford a better one, but I just found a heck of a deal on a Core 2 Quad Q9550 ES so that actually eliminates one of the questions I had regarding the interaction between a P4 and DDR3.

But my remaining questions about this board is not as easily solved. The P35 chipset is supposed to be limited to 8GB DDR3. Personally, I doubt that I would ever need more than 8GB. However, finding 2GB (or 1GB or less, for that matter) sticks of DDR3 at a local store is near impossible - even the mom and pop shops have to order them, which makes replacing bad sticks difficult should the situation ever come up... The manual for the P5K3 is all about 512MB, 1GB and 2GB sticks in any combination up to 8GB, but nothing about putting in one or more 4GB other than "it can't be done".

So the first question is, can it be done, even if it requires something obscure such as hanging chicken bones from the side of the case?

The next question is, assuming the first can be done, could it be used in combinations over 8GB up to 16GB?

See, I have done some research on this myself. Do please keep in mind, I don't *need* more than 8GB - so far every PC or laptop that I use regularly for anything is doing OK on 4GB or less. Just having the option, though, to expand above and beyond is... neat. The prices for 4x2GB are close enough to 2x4GB that cost isn't the issue. I can, however, get 2x4GB on my way home from work for all of about $0.25 in gas vs. variable shipping costs and unreliable delivery times on 4x2GB... but I digest...

What I have found, however, is that some people have boards with P35 chipsets have tried successfully with the full 16GB while others have failed. Some even using identical components (or so it was said). Eventually I found this thread, which links to these two pictures:

http://www.freeimagehosting.net/d6b4b

http://www.freeimagehosting.net/pz388

which bring me to my penultimate question here: Are those real? I mean, seriously, its the board I bought, running a Q9550, and the fabled 16GB on an 8GB chip... is this too good to be true? I can't read the language it is in, but I can compare my CPU-Z to the one in the pictures, and I just don't see how each slot (#1, #2, etc.) has the exact same serial number - the S/N's should be different, even if by at least one character/number - and there should be "DDR3" in the first box on the memory tab. These are red flags to me, at least for when it comes to authenticity. There's probably other things, but that's what I could see.

Now my final question I think I know the answer to this but I'm still not sure... The new board supports RAM at 1333MHz, 1600MHz RAM is slightly cheaper. Would 1600MHz work in the 1333MHz board? I suspect the answer would be yes, with the 1600 running at 1333, but this is a new realm for me - I usually have pieces and parts that match (the old board supports 400MHz and runs 400MHz DDR, for example).

I just want to be sure I have the right RAM before I commit to something that I may not be able to exchange easily. Then again, I guess I already have committed to an extent. The new board arrived today, the CPU is due in day after Thanksgiving...

Well, anyway, I appreciate anything y'all might have.

The Czar

P.S. Whoops. Fell asleep without clicking "Post"... Time to fix that

[Javora]

What operating system are you using?  If you are using WinXP than anything more than 2~4GB of Ram us a waste of time and money.

[Czar Mohab]

New board will be running Win7 Ultimate x64, leaving options open for either dual boot with or upgrade to Win8.

Old board is running Win7 Ultimate x64, dual boot with WinXP Pro (SP3) x86.

[Javora]

IMHO I would just buy 4 - 2GB sticks of Ram and be happy.  I also wouldn't try running 1600MHz in a 1333MHz max speed motherboard.  I've heard issues with instability.  I would stick with 1333MHz for that system.  Hope this helps.

[Strat]

Prob not what you want to hear.. But unless you are developing, running a server, a ramdrive, 5 3d games at once, doing some sort of serious modeling or artwork, you can't use 16GB if you wanted to. As a matter of fact, Windows 8 has specific under the hood changes to use LESS ram that even Windows 7 did. So the thought of 'future proofing' isn't really all that important past a certain capacity, except where there is a specific need.

http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2012/10/better-on-the-inside-under-the-hood-of-windows-8/3/

As for the ram speed.. Well I can't say for certain your MB, but in some MB, it simply downspeed's the ram to what it supports. Sometime's you have to pick the slower speed manually. That said, it's mostly wiser to just get the correct speed.

Also as far as future proofing, I think that staying in that cpu slot greatly limits you as far as upgrading to any future performance gain. All the new 'Core i' stuff is on a new socket, and light years better performing (and cooler temps are a nice perk) than even a Core 2 Quad. ( a q9550 performs HALF as fast as a Core i5 -3570k according to one site, http://www.cpubenchmark.net/) Not to mention the major advances in chipset design. It might be just as well to price out a similarly priced system using the LGA1155 socket.  For example, for all the effort you spend to get 16GB of ram squeezed into that old system, a Core i5 with 8GB will still blow it out of the water in 99.999% of tasks. If you live in the US, check out www.newegg.com for pricing out ideas.

[Age]

I would go with board like this as it can take an I5 or I7 chipset I got an Intel 775 socket set.I do like asus boards good pick.

http://www.asus.com/Motherboards/#Intel_Socket_1155

[Javora]

Just a programming note, Intel will be releasing a 1150 chipset sometime next year.  Read about it last month somewhere.  Can't believe how much Intel changes chipsets.  Ugh...

[Czar Mohab]

Future-proofing isn't even in the plans for me. I know its an older board with older parts. Its what I wanted. More preciesly, its what I wanted for *this* build. in 4-6 years when the new board is overly taxed by what I throw at it, I'll upgrade to something more Core i7 or so. Hopefully by then DDR4 or DDR5 wiill be common place, with vid cards running DDR7 in slots that make PCI-E 2.0 x16 look slow...

As a counter-point, I'm also building a Socket 370 Intell PIII 1.0GHz machine, mostly because I can. The board I have for it will wield a whopping 1.5GB of PC133. Don't know why, but I love the older stuff. I also have a PI 166MHz Packard-Bell behemoth in my garage that I tinker with from time to time. I seriously love the older stuff.

I am also aware that C2Q Q9550 < Core i5 anything (more or less). But, so to is the Q9550 < i5 in price. The biggest benefit to me is I am sitting on a "spare" LGA 775 CPU that is supported by the P5K3. CPU goes out and its a 15-20 min swap; I'll be slower, but functional. Honestly, with PCs and electronics in general I tend to be more paranoid than a pot head holding at a policeman's ball. Its actually paid off. The LGA775 was one of the requirements for me with the new board, which I will outline below:

Must be LGA775 CPU, based on equipment on hand.
Must have at least one (preferably two) standard PCI slots
Must be crossfire or SLI (or both) capable, crossfire preferred due to equipment on hand
Must support DDR2 or DDR3 (DDR3 preferred - I actually found boards that supported both but only one at a time)
Must support SATA, the higher the better
Must have eSATA port (at least one)
Must be USB 2.0 compatable, USB 3.0 optional
Preferance to overclocking ability
Preference to FDD compatability
Preference to IDE compatability
Preference to ATX over smaller boards
Preference to low price
Preference to more than 4GB of RAM compatibility

To keep up front costs down the initial plan was to drop the P4 in the board until I could get something better. But then I realized (as I was drooling over the C2Q's and C2QE's) that I really DO NOT want to mess with the P4 board *again* as setting the heat sink is a pita, and ~$120 + shipping for a Q9550 ES (it arrived today - not so "intel confidential" now, eh?) isn't all that much...

I have various pieces of PC stuff that will be migrating from the old into the new. The old will then be sitting underneath and plugged into the big screen, acting as a media center (if nothing else this old beast plays music and movies very well). Ultimately, this has been the plan for this old girl since I built it.

Like I said in the beginning, I don't plan on going over 8GB RAM. I'm pretty certain that I won't even fully utilize 75-80% of that for a long time to come. I definately want more than 4GB... My questions about the RAM are more based around what is more readily available (2x4GB @ 1600 sells at almost all of the stores that sell anything PC around here, 4x2GB @ any speed is online only), prices of said availabilities vs. online only stuffs, and what I can really get away with.

I am still torn over 1333 or 1600... I might overclock the board in the future but I'm not even sure if that is a factor in any of that... By the end of its life, this will be my learning board for all those things I've never been able to do before. I might just say frog it and go for the 1600MHz. I can always return it if it doesn't work out.

Time will tell

The Czar

P.S.

Crucial Memory Advisor™ Tool
 Use our Advisor tool to find guaranteed-compatible upgrades specific to your computer model:

http://www.crucial.com/store/listparts.aspx?model=P5K3%20Deluxe%2FWiFi-AP&Cat=RAM

4GB kit (2GBx2) 
DDR3 PC3-12800 • CL=11 • Unbuffered • NON-ECC • DDR3-1600 • 1.35V • 256Meg x 64 •   •  Part #: CT2KIT25664BD160B

^^THIS^^ kind of stuff is why I am so... confused - Grrr...

P.P.S.

Just a programming note, Intel will be releasing a 1150 chipset sometime next year.  Read about it last month somewhere.  Can't believe how much Intel changes chipsets.  Ugh...

Paving the way for that DDR4 I hoped for earlier in this posting 

[Age]

The i5 chipset won't work on a 775 motherboard.

[Czar Mohab]

The i5 chipset won't work on a 775 motherboard.

I know. Just like 478 before it, 775 had to eventually be replaced by something better. I just hope that when I do this all again in 3-4 (or more) years, the prices on i5's and i7's drop... A LOT... the i7 I would want is ~$1k... but enough of the future. It'll be here soon enough.