Topic: It's All Relative

[Scottish Andy]

Very nice, Q! Controversial and perhaps incendiary. it's a shame it didn't spark a political/moral/ethical debate, but I guess this is sci-fi forum and that belongs in the Off Topic or Equine Graveyard.


Apologies for being absent but I'll be back more now.

[Lieutenant_Q]

I went that way for a reason.  Everyone here knows what Khan will become, but from his perspective he had his reasons to do it.  He's already brought a good semblance of order to the Middle East.  Granted there's a few places on the periphery of his Empire that aren't as well off as the central parts.  But no one is going to be able to just suddenly crop up from nothing without some international support.  Russia and China are constantly supporting powers in the Middle East that they think will either support their interests, or just be a thorn in the side of the "West".  Quite soon the two of them will turn on Khan, once they realize that he's an immediate threat to them, and it will be the US and UK that will support him because of what he's been able to do with Terrorism in general.  I know Roddenberry thought that the United Nations would be the entity that will lead us into a bold new future, but personally I do not see the United Nations accomplishing anything near something like the uniting of the World.  In fact, it would not surprise me if the United Nations is a catalyst for a Third World War.  These are the same type of people that supported the defunct League of Nations, who thought that the best way to stop all wars, was to outlaw it.  We saw just how well THAT turned out, but they think that THIS TIME, they have all the right pieces in place.  I'm sure that after the UN we'll have another entity that pops up that will try to do the same thing.  Most bad ideas have to come around again and again a few times before most of the people realize that it is indeed, a bad idea.  Is there a way to unite Earth?  Not at present.  I fear that it will indeed take the discovery of Extra-Terrestrial Intelligence for that to happen.  Because even if someone manages to unite the World by force, that unity will only be temporary.  A world wide sense of purpose, whether it be to present a united Human face to an alien race, or even to sponsor a trip beyond the solar system, that's what I think it will take.  But... well... I'll leave it at that because this isn't Hot & Spicy, and I don't want this over there.

I do not like having characters, especially main characters, that are "Pure Good" or "Pure Evil".  Because NO ONE is either.  Even a man as reviled as Hitler was not "Pure Evil", although he is about as close as you can get.  I also like having characters that "grow" with the story.  That's something that you really didn't get in TOS, but got in TMP and beyond.  If a character did "grow" in a TOS story, it was usually just for the duration of the Episode, and then it was back to normal for the next week.  I'm not saying that it's bad that they didn't, its a by-product of when it was filmed, continuity didn't matter from episode to episode, it wasn't deemed as very important, the story that was being told was what was important.

[Scottish Andy]

I'm sure that after the UN we'll have another entity that pops up that will try to do the same thing.

The New United Nations?
http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/New_United_Nations

As to the rest of your rationale, I fear that you are correct in your assessment. Currently, the members of the U.N. all seem to be in it not for the collective good of Humanity but for the increase in visibility and alliance-building influence for their own nation. When one or more big countries don't like something that goes against their own political goals, they use their veto power to stop it. Currently the U.N. is merely an international political forum. Nations do as they please and use all sorts of political wrangling to get what they want. It often is merely a P.R. campaign, putting the happy face of international cooperation over the back-room deals as nations wrangle to get the best "what's in it for me if I help you?" angle.

Very tiresome and disheartening, I must say.

What is it with veto power anyway? It just makes one country able to waste months or years of diplomatic and political effort and no doubt billions of pounds right at  the very end of the process, or is a big stick to scare others into not even attempting to go forward with something. Why is this a good idea?

To unite the world, we'd have to do away with nation-states. As long as there are nation-states, those within it will always be looking out for what is best for them, which will more often than not be at odds with what is best for their neighbours or those they affect around the globe. Each nation-state is all about getting the ultimate best for their own, which will always be to the detriment of others. For common cause to unite the nation-states, it has to be a long-term, all-encompassing goal that can be dealt with by cooperation with all nations. Otherwise it's too short to maintain everyone's focus, and those who simply are unable to help won't care.

I totally agree about with you about Good vs. Evil. We can all be petty muppets thwarting someone else's idea because we don't like them or they wronged us in the past; or be the opposition whose aims momentarily line up with those of the proposers to get something done.

I'm going to be deconstructing your deconstruction of Europe in your second installment next. The individual European militaries are in no way as woeful a shape as you paint! Certainly not after only two more years. I've not finished reading it yet though, and I still have to catch up on the Guv's Cleo #2 and Rommie's story (just to let you know I've not forgotten about you! ) so I'll be around for a bit, making lots of comments and again trying to resuscitate this comatose forum.

Just out of interest, do any of you read (or used to read, when I regularly updated it) my website? I have been regularly updating it again now for almost two months continuously. Not much I grant you, but after about 5 updates in 2 years, I think it is a marked improvement. Go back and read it! Please?