Topic: What we've been up to - from a Modeller's perspective.

[Norsehound]

The Constellation as GSC is completely fitting since it seemed to carry that role into the decades following its introduction. It's hardly a warship, and seems to have more space for cargo than the Constitutions did.

There will be plenty of ships that break the mold, so I feel like its nice to have a couple that don't.

That may be true, but in the case of the Fast cruiser I still think those engines aren't dramatic enough of a change from the stock ones. Just glancing at the Wolverine you can't tell it's different from the connie unless you know what to look for. Personally I'd expect a completely different set of nacelles (With "black" patterns changed, perhaps with more sweep) and maybe the crystal at the top of the warp column changed- either a different color or a different assembly. These things tell me its the same spaceframe, just converted to produce and channel more power.

For the Fencer... I don't like designs that mess with the deflector dish like that. If the assembly could be smaller than how it appeared on Enterprise, it wouldn't be as big as it is. Plus I feel a hangar right there would interfere with what we know of the warp core (or it's a really small hangar). Instead I'd rather have everything behind the secondary hull docking port converted for hangar duty on the theory that you're converting that cargo deck into a full-fledged hangar and switching out primary hull labs for cargo space. You could think of it as docking the ship and letting the construction team go to town on the secondary hull. Take out the fan tail and smooth out the cylindrical hull to have a double-deck assembly. You could even put a hatch on the bottom as a drop-door.

I guess in the end I have different conventions and presumptions on starship design for Trek :\

[Terradyhne]

I if I might ask are community models going into this or will they all be Original construtions?

They're all going to be original builds.

ok than the CE will be the wrong edition name, if CE stands for "Community Edition" 

for the whole project i wish you much luck, as there would be so much work involved, for remaking all those fleets in such a high poly matter, like those Feds are.

[FoaS_XC]

The Constellation as GSC is completely fitting since it seemed to carry that role into the decades following its introduction. It's hardly a warship, and seems to have more space for cargo than the Constitutions did.

There will be plenty of ships that break the mold, so I feel like its nice to have a couple that don't.

That may be true, but in the case of the Fast cruiser I still think those engines aren't dramatic enough of a change from the stock ones. Just glancing at the Wolverine you can't tell it's different from the connie unless you know what to look for. Personally I'd expect a completely different set of nacelles (With "black" patterns changed, perhaps with more sweep) and maybe the crystal at the top of the warp column changed- either a different color or a different assembly. These things tell me its the same spaceframe, just converted to produce and channel more power.

For the Fencer... I don't like designs that mess with the deflector dish like that. If the assembly could be smaller than how it appeared on Enterprise, it wouldn't be as big as it is. Plus I feel a hangar right there would interfere with what we know of the warp core (or it's a really small hangar). Instead I'd rather have everything behind the secondary hull docking port converted for hangar duty on the theory that you're converting that cargo deck into a full-fledged hangar and switching out primary hull labs for cargo space. You could think of it as docking the ship and letting the construction team go to town on the secondary hull. Take out the fan tail and smooth out the cylindrical hull to have a double-deck assembly. You could even put a hatch on the bottom as a drop-door.

I guess in the end I have different conventions and presumptions on starship design for Trek :\

That's not a bad argument against the Fencer... I think I'll revisit it.

Also, perhaps you're right about the wolverine, it may need to be turned up a notch.

[FoaS_XC]

I if I might ask are community models going into this or will they all be Original construtions?

They're all going to be original builds.

ok than the CE will be the wrong edition name, if CE stands for "Community Edition" 

for the whole project i wish you much luck, as there would be so much work involved, for remaking all those fleets in such a high poly matter, like those Feds are.

It's a fitting name - it is going to be built by members of the community into the game that's been "dialed up to 11" compared to EAW/OP - which includes the models: We don't want to fall into a situation where someone might pull their contribution to the project halfway through the production pipeline - which is why we don't want to use models that already exist (think p81 and OP, there was a big stink back in the day about it). When time comes I hope to enlist the help of everyone willing here.

[Terradyhne]

We don't want to fall into a situation where someone might pull their contribution to the project halfway through the production pipeline - which is why we don't want to use models that already exist (think p81 and OP, there was a big stink back in the day about it).

ok this is a good way of thinking about it, i respect that, sorry than for my earlier post. 

[FoaS_XC]

Naw you're fine. You had a good concern.

[Panzergranate]

I have a plastic model of the Constellation Class.... I've always liked the design mainly as it is so radically different to the normal Star Fleet fare.

For one thing the engines are shorter and smaller than the usual TMP LN-64 Warp engine nachelles.

It does feature 6 forward firing tubes under the saucer front so its torpedo salvo is more than that of a Constitution II class. It has the conventional front twin Phaser emplacement of the top of the saucer but the lower saucer Phasers are split on to seperate bulges either side of the torpedo tubes. (USS Hathaway in TNG "Peak Performance") A bit of a problem regarding weapons hardpoints.

I've noticed that some people like to have the torpedo launcher in between the Warp engine mountings, which is completely wrong if one watches the TNG episode "The Battle" as the Stargazer launches its salvo of 6 Photons from under the saucer front.

If anything the Constellation class is considerably better armed than the Constitution II class but this is probally needed by a GSC operating alone.

I look forward to seeing the model.

[Starfox1701]

I always liked Belknap as a Fast CA class. there is even a veriant with different Necelles.

It does feature 6 forward firing tubes under the saucer front so its torpedo salvo is more than that of a Constitution II class. It has the conventional front twin Phaser emplacement of the top of the saucer but the lower saucer Phasers are split on to seperate bulges either side of the torpedo tubes. (USS Hathaway in TNG "Peak Performance") A bit of a problem regarding weapons hardpoints.
I've noticed that some people like to have the torpedo launcher in between the Warp engine mountings, which is completely wrong if one watches the TNG episode "The Battle" as the Stargazer launches its salvo of 6 Photons from under the saucer front.

Not according to the actual shooting model

[Klingon Fanatic]

The new Abbe with the deflector on the bottom saucer looks fantastic!

Please tell me that the new Akula has an under saucer deflector. I would like to see some uniformity in the Fed fleet. I say let's use this opportunity to correct some issues with the Chandley Class as well as the canon Miranda class too and give them a deflector either on the bottom saucer or like the Loknar (USS Phobos).

I have noted that the FASA pics of the Chandley vary regarding the amount of open space on the wing areas. The original main schematic is not detailed very much and yet other pictures show what resembles what the Chandley has beciome as an SFC model. There is no rule that states the Chandley couldn't have had variants as FOAS proposes.

Here are some pictures of the Old Chandley miniature showing solid wing areas a la the Marine variant:

http://users.sisna.com/roguewing/workshop/startrek/chandley1.html

Other solid wing areas:

http://www.shipschematics.net/startrek/images/federation/frigate_chandley_upg2.jpg

I'd like this one with a bottom saucer deflector:

http://www.shipschematics.net/startrek/images/federation/frigate_chandley_upg.jpg

Just my opinion about fleet uniformity...

[Klingon Fanatic]

I if I might ask are community models going into this or will they all be Original construtions?

They're all going to be original builds.

ok than the CE will be the wrong edition name, if CE stands for "Community Edition" 

for the whole project i wish you much luck, as there would be so much work involved, for remaking all those fleets in such a high poly matter, like those Feds are.

Terradyhne, I would be extremely disappointed if at least some of your models were not included in CE. You have a ton of excellent non-Federation ships that have yet to make it into SFC.

[GotAFarmYet?]

Leave it to me to get back to the modelling questions:
So you went to one sheet which is fine, what is the sheet size you are going to work with?
will the engine be updated any so that the true 16 bit colors can be used, or will it only still render in 8 bit as before?
will it support other picture formats?
Spec maps?

[Norsehound]

lease tell me that the new Akula has an under saucer deflector. I would like to see some uniformity in the Fed fleet. I say let's use this opportunity to correct some issues with the Chandley Class as well as the canon Miranda class too and give them a deflector either on the bottom saucer or like the Loknar (USS Phobos).

I like the Miranda the way it is. I also like the Akula the way it is. I don't like the saucer-mounted oval deflector.

Adding to the sentiments about messing with the deflector dishes, Perfect circles seem to be common in the TMP era. The saucers are circular, the deflectors are circular, the cross-section for the secondary hull is circular. It isn't until TNG that a lot of oval shapes begin to appear. With the squeezed saucer deflector your introducing an eye-catching, light-emitting oval in a place where it should be bare hull. It's too distracting and out of place, imo. I tolerate it on the Abbe because that's how the Abbe was designed, but I wouldn't miss its absence. The Miranda looks awesome enough without a 'mouth' on the saucer.

However I wondered what a Connie secondary hull would look like mounted on the underside of the Chandley. If I didn't think the Miranda fit so well as a New Heavy cruiser, I'd think such a modified Chandley would fit just as well.

Re: Constellation

The armament was upped sure, but the increase in mass wasn't accommodated with an increase in weaponry. In fact she's missing contemporaries of the underbelly and fantail phaser mounts seen on the refit connie. You could even write off one of the photorp launchers as geared specifically for probes. It's just for the amount of mass added, it seems to be dedicated to colonization and scientific equipment instead of troop space or weapons arrays. That's why she makes a good auxiliary carrier.

Re: Fast Cruiser
Another suggestion might be to reduce the taper near the bottom of the nacelle struts to make it seem like there's more hold on the engines. No sense in having them tear off the ship if they're going twice the speed of the original design specifications. On the other hand as field emitters, are they really pushing the ship? or just emitting a stronger field that moves the ship? Either way it wouldn't be an overt deal, just something subtle to suggest a few more ribs and beams were added to the pylons to better connect the monster engines to their parent ship.

[FoaS_XC]

I like the Miranda the way it is. I also like the Akula the way it is. I don't like the saucer-mounted oval deflector.

Adding to the sentiments about messing with the deflector dishes, Perfect circles seem to be common in the TMP era. The saucers are circular, the deflectors are circular, the cross-section for the secondary hull is circular. It isn't until TNG that a lot of oval shapes begin to appear. With the squeezed saucer deflector your introducing an eye-catching, light-emitting oval in a place where it should be bare hull. It's too distracting and out of place, imo. I tolerate it on the Abbe because that's how the Abbe was designed, but I wouldn't miss its absence. The Miranda looks awesome enough without a 'mouth' on the saucer.

That's part of the reason why I left it out of the Miranda. I wasn't sure so I drifted on the side of caution. I do feel like it works on the Akula, however.

However I wondered what a Connie secondary hull would look like mounted on the underside of the Chandley. If I didn't think the Miranda fit so well as a New Heavy cruiser, I'd think such a modified Chandley would fit just as well.

I feel like it would get too massive at that point. I feel like it should either have the mouth-deflector (ala Abbe) or no deflector (ala Miranda).

Re: Constellation

The armament was upped sure, but the increase in mass wasn't accommodated with an increase in weaponry. In fact she's missing contemporaries of the underbelly and fantail phaser mounts seen on the refit connie. You could even write off one of the photorp launchers as geared specifically for probes. It's just for the amount of mass added, it seems to be dedicated to colonization and scientific equipment instead of troop space or weapons arrays. That's why she makes a good auxiliary carrier.

Six of one, half a dozen of the other. There is enough room to get it to do what we want, methinks.

Re: Fast Cruiser
Another suggestion might be to reduce the taper near the bottom of the nacelle struts to make it seem like there's more hold on the engines. No sense in having them tear off the ship if they're going twice the speed of the original design specifications. On the other hand as field emitters, are they really pushing the ship? or just emitting a stronger field that moves the ship? Either way it wouldn't be an overt deal, just something subtle to suggest a few more ribs and beams were added to the pylons to better connect the monster engines to their parent ship.

Good notion! again: I'll play around with it some

[FPF-Tobin Dax]

Fasa Andor would combine the constitution / chandley components mentioned. It was originally a torpedo boat I think for FASA. Kreeargh made one I think.

[Panzergranate]

Not according to the actual shooting model
[/quote]
Check again.... the Stargazer fires a salvo of 6 torpedoes originating from under the saucer at the Enterprise.

Data also makes it clear that the Stargazer (and therefore the 5 other Constellation class star cruisers) can fire a total of 6 torpedoes in a salvo.

The model I have does not have Photon tubes anywhere near the engines. Even the official pictures of the TNG show model show it does not have torpedo launchers between the nachelles. They are an addition of fanon....

I like the Abbe. It even appeared in DS9 on one occasion. Modifiying it for other purposes seems logical.

[Klingon Fanatic]

I like the Abbe. It even appeared in DS9 on one occasion. Modifiying it for other purposes seems logical.

Do you have a picture to show it in DS9?

[Starfox1701]

Not according to the actual shooting model

Check again.... the Stargazer fires a salvo of 6 torpedoes originating from under the saucer at the Enterprise.

Data also makes it clear that the Stargazer (and therefore the 5 other Constellation class star cruisers) can fire a total of 6 torpedoes in a salvo.

The model I have does not have Photon tubes anywhere near the engines. Even the official pictures of the TNG show model show it does not have torpedo launchers between the nachelles. They are an addition of fanon....

I'm not saying that the ship can't fire 6 torps but I can show you the torpedo tubes between the necelles.
The 1st pic shows the model as most people have seen her on TV. The details of the lunchers is completly obscured by the low resolution.
Pic 2 is the desk top model which came first and served as the foundation and plan for the shooting model.
pic 3 is the TNG trading card of the Constellation. The art department has iluminated several details not shown on the Hathaway and Stargazer. One feature is the dorsal torpedo tube.
pics4-8 show closeups of the dorsal and ventral areas that contain the torpedo lunchers. You can note 2 features. Feature 1 is the tube like structure that the art department ment to be the Torpedo tubes. Feature 2 are flat faced versions of the TMP Enterprise's torpedo launchers.  These are the places that most people placed the launchers for obvious reasons. Over time the art departments have retconed the luncher location to show the TMP Enterprise stile launchers as pic 9 shows. This model was built and rendered by Doug Drexler

[Starfox1701]

Pics 8 and 9

[Norsehound]

What's the say on Phasers, though? Any more other than the six on the primary hull?

[Kreeargh]

Fasa Andor would combine the constitution / chandley components mentioned. It was originally a torpedo boat I think for FASA. Kreeargh made one I think.

Please dont use the name-0-Kreeargh-0 in this topic. Whatever I did in the past is no glory to me.  KF made the model look good not me. KF sould get that glory!