Topic: So I watched the old old versions of Capt. America last night. (Read 4992 times)

Sirgod · « **on:** July 22, 2011, 12:35:26 pm »

I find it interesting that our three most iconic "American" heroes are:

An illegal alien (who is actually an alien), with a fake identity, who is a vigilante with near God like powers.

Another illegal alien, who is also second in command of a secretive foreign monarchy, with a fake identity, who is operating as a spy inside the US military, and is a vigilante.

And a doped up soldier.

Stephen

TAnimaL · « **Reply #1 on:** July 22, 2011, 03:49:00 pm »

ok, I'm utterly baffled by the second one on that list!

my cable co. has those 70s Capt. America and the ones from the 90s in their VOD, but I wasn't brave enough to try...

knightstorm · « **Reply #2 on:** July 22, 2011, 04:32:31 pm »

Quote from: TAnimaL on July 22, 2011, 03:49:00 pm

ok, I'm utterly baffled by the second one on that list!

I think he's referring to Wonder Woman.

Sirgod · « **Reply #3 on:** July 22, 2011, 04:48:49 pm »

Sorry , yes, Wonder woman.

Supes, WW, and Capt. America.

Those old late 79 movies are so full of well something. Avoid them if you can unless you think Plan 9 from outerspace is a masterpiece.

Stephen

Nemesis · « **Reply #4 on:** July 22, 2011, 06:07:15 pm »

Quote from: Sirgod on July 22, 2011, 12:35:26 pm

I find it interesting that our three most iconic "American" heroes are:

An illegal alien (who is actually an alien), with a fake identity, who is a vigilante with near God like powers.

Another illegal alien, who is also second in command of a secretive foreign monarchy, with a fake identity, who is operating as a spy inside the US military, and is a vigilante.

And a doped up soldier.

Stephen

Back in the days when Superman was born things were rather less formal. Truthfully of course he is in fact a castaway with no nation to deport him to. As such at the time I'm sure he would have been given citizenship if his American foster parents had revealed his origins (assuming he wasn't locked up for study). I'd have to say he fails the vigilante test as most such try to be judge, jury and executioner where Superman does cooperate with the police and turns the "evil doers" over to them for normal trial.

Wonder Woman is technically a spy but of a friendly power attempting to aid the U.S. against enemies to democracy and freedom. As to being a vigilante I suspect it would depend on the WW version, that of the 70's TV show for example was a official U.S. government agent though self recruited rather than following the normal method of hiring. She also mostly acted based on orders to her secret identity.

As to CA being "doped up" I disagree. He is the result of a one time application of a medical procedure, there is no ongoing drug use. Therefore he is not "doped up".

Have you read the "Wild Cards" series of super hero novels?

knightstorm · « **Reply #5 on:** July 22, 2011, 07:19:20 pm »

Quote from: Sirgod on July 22, 2011, 04:48:49 pm

Sorry , yes, Wonder woman.

Supes, WW, and Capt. America.

Those old late 79 movies are so full of well something. Avoid them if you can unless you think Plan 9 from outerspace is a masterpiece.

Stephen

What are you talking about, the first two Superman films were classics. The franchize didn't get $#$%ed up until they got the bright idea of adding Richard Pryor.

Sirgod · « **Reply #6 on:** July 22, 2011, 07:29:05 pm »

@kightstorm, I was referring to the old Capt. America movies. in response mostly to TAnimal.

@ Nem. The fact remains, his current abilities are the result of drugs, there for I say Drugged up pretty much works. As for WW, we have had spys from allied countries before, still doesn't make them good guys. As for the vigilante test, I used a broader example, of working outside of typical law enforcement. For example, I go out and grab Criminal John doe off the street, and then hand him over to the police.

Wild cards does sound familiar though, been a long time.

Stephen

Nemesis · « **Reply #7 on:** July 22, 2011, 08:30:50 pm »

Quote from: Sirgod on July 22, 2011, 07:29:05 pm

@ Nem. The fact remains, his current abilities are the result of drugs, there for I say Drugged up pretty much works. As for WW, we have had spys from allied countries before, still doesn't make them good guys. As for the vigilante test, I used a broader example, of working outside of typical law enforcement. For example, I go out and grab Criminal John doe off the street, and then hand him over to the police.

Wild cards does sound familiar though, been a long time.

Stephen

Drugged up to me implies drugs currently in the system. I'd say that CA is more genetically altered (The old TSR Marvel Superheroes game classed him as an altered human-like Spider man as I recall).

So if you are on the scene of a mugging and stop it you are being a vigilante? Not to me. Vigilantes don't so much as stop crime as attack criminals (The Punisher is such a vigilante) but CA Superman and WW to my knowledge go after crimes in progress not punishing for past or future crimes. WW in the old TV show was an Naval Yeoman and later civilian intelligence officer making her actions official not vigilante.

Dash Jones · « **Reply #8 on:** July 22, 2011, 09:58:33 pm »

I don't know, I think I'd put Batman above WW and Cap both.

Fantastic Four aren't quite as old, but I think may be more popular than WW or Cap...

X-men certainly are younger, but definately younger...

and what about Spiderman!!!

Nemesis · « **Reply #9 on:** July 24, 2011, 07:00:26 pm »

Quote from: Dash Jones on July 22, 2011, 09:58:33 pm

Fantastic Four aren't quite as old, but I think may be more popular than WW or Cap...

X-men certainly are younger, but definately younger...

Both the FF and X-Men are of the 1960s.

knightstorm · « **Reply #10 on:** July 25, 2011, 12:08:06 am »

Quote from: Dash Jones on July 22, 2011, 09:58:33 pm

I don't know, I think I'd put Batman above WW and Cap both.

Fantastic Four aren't quite as old, but I think may be more popular than WW or Cap...

X-men certainly are younger, but definately younger...

and what about Spiderman!!!

I'd certainly agree about putting Batman ahead of Wonder Woman, whose only purpose was to keep little girls from feeling left out. However, the only marvel character that is anywhere near iconic enough to be mentioned in the same sentence as Batman and Superman is Captain America. All the other marvel characters are a bunch of losers who have nothing better to do than chase around guys in odd head dresses.

Andromeda · « **Reply #11 on:** July 25, 2011, 12:52:56 am »

Just because Cap is Marvel's best (which he is) doesn't make him Batman's equal. I have a big two: Superman and Batman. After that, you're going for the second tier. That's large enough, but WW and Cap are going to be near the top of it. Third tier is too large to count.

FA Frey XC · « **Reply #12 on:** July 25, 2011, 01:38:54 pm »

You all realize Captain America is dead right?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Death_of_Captain_America

Regards,

knightstorm · « **Reply #13 on:** July 25, 2011, 01:41:23 pm »

Quote from: FA Frey XC on July 25, 2011, 01:38:54 pm

You all realize Captain America is dead right?

Regards,

He's already been brought back.

FA Frey XC · « **Reply #14 on:** July 25, 2011, 01:43:29 pm »

Yea, I know...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Captain_America:_Reborn

Thanks, dammit... I was seriously hoping to get SirGod going!!!!

Regards,

Sirgod · « **Reply #15 on:** July 25, 2011, 02:09:34 pm »

Haha, and you would have also. I haven't kept up with comics since around Planet Hulk or that civil war series.

Stephen

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