Topic: Sci Fi Poll : SW final showdown.

[Sirgod]

Last of the SW films.

Return of the Jedi.   http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0086190/


vs.


Revenge of the Sith   http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0121766/


Stephen

[762_XC]

Hardest one...arguably the worst (or I should say, the least good) of the original trilogy against the best of the prequels.

For me ROTS did much to redeem itself over the previous two films, especially considering it was the tie-in movie that had to link together everything we'd already seen. Lucas did a surprisingly good job of that (the one fault being why didn't Obi-Wan recognize the droids? But that's relatively minor.) ROTS was a darker film and more enjoyable to watch (the lightsaber fights were also awesome). There was also some real good acting - Ewan McGregor and Ian McDiarmid were both outstanding, as was Christopher Lee all too briefly. It was almost painful at times to see such fine actors struggling to find a way to render Lucas' horrible writing.

The downsides of ROTS are Lucas' horrible writing, Vader's fall (the central plot element of the film) being not real convincing, and Hayden Christiansen. His acting range does not seem to go beyond whining tween, and no doubt the last two points are related.

ROTJ had its own issues but they were small by comparison. I understand the role Lucas wanted the Ewoks to play, but they were still annoying. I am usually asleep from the time Leia falls off her bike until they get to the shield bunker. There is also something of an inconsistency in how we see Luke at the end of the previous film, and the start of this one (I don't mean his face). Nothing really explains how he matures from the half-trained rookie who ran off on impulse and got Vaderpwnd, to the calm, poised all-but-Jedi who was able to handle Jabba's whole gang with relative ease, and face down Vader and the Emperor with absolute (over)confidence.

On the plus side is Luke's confrontation with the Sith, culminating in Vader's redemption and the fulfillment of the prophecy. Luke falling here (as Lucas originally intended) would have been much more interesting but overall it was still well done. We also get to see the only real fleet battle in all the films.

In the final balance I have to vote ROTJ, as ROTS, despite being better than the schlock that was Ep. I-II, has too many fatal flaws.

[EschelonOfJudgemnt]

Return Of The Jedi.  I left the theater in a good mood.

Revenge Of The Sith.  I left the theater saying to my brother "There's two and a half hours of my life I'm not getting back".

Episode III was a disappointment to me on so many levels. But I can sum it up around Anakin Skywalker's script.  You KNEW going in to the theater how he'd end up, but I kept waiting for plot twists, etc. which might make you think otherwise.  Instead, he beelined to the dark side, and no suprises.

It's kind of like reading the last chapter of a novel first.  We had that with Episode IV-VI.  Lucas knew that we all knew, and yet made absolutely no effort to titilate us with plot twists r.e. Anakin.

Special Effects aside, Episode III is by far the worst Star Wars Movie ever.  At least with the Ewoks, while too cute, you were rooting for the guys as they bashed Imperial scout walkers!

I wasn't rooting for anything in Episode III.  Other than for the pain to end after the first hour...

The lava sequences were nice looking though.  Just not nice enough for me to endure that POS piece of writing again.

[knightstorm]

Return of the Jedi was the best of the Star Whores films.

[FCM_SFHQ_XC]

mmm, I have to go with Return of the Jedi

[Age]

I went with Return of the Jedi.

[marstone]

I wanted all Ewoks to be turned into fur coats.  i absolutly hated it.  The attack to blow up the new Death Star, sucked.  Fly the MF inside and hit the core reactor, with more nimble Tie fighters not being able to follow it, yeah right.  Even the final fight for Luke and Darth Vader was a let down.  Death of the Emperor was crappy also.

Now was Revenge of the Sith good not really.  i actually think most of the SW movies sucked overall.  Plots are all weak, usually fair to midland acting, and special effects are good based on the times they were done.

[Andromeda]

I always found Jedi to be the weakest of the original trilogy.  I'd rather watch it than Empire Strikes Back, but Empire was a better movie.  The acting, especially the supporting roles and Carrie Fisher, just wasn't that interesting.  The Ewoks, for such important characters, were a real problem.  Even with the size and cuteness issues, they could have been more developed if they could speak.  Chub-chub just wasn't enough expression.  I didn't have a problem with Luke being confident.  A Jedi should always seem confident.  Luke went far past confident into cocky, and for that he had no justification - perhaps other than ignorance.  I liked the space battle, but the Falcon should have had more trouble than the TIEs in the interior.  Still, that was exciting. 

Sith was a good movie, but it had the problems of the bad guys won in the end and Christiansen not being a good enough actor to pull off the role in which he was cast.  I can't blame him for that failing, but I do blame whoever cast him as Anakin.  Obi-wan was a great character and it was sad to see the younger version go.  I can get technical and justify the later version not seeming to know R2 and 3Pio, but I won't.  I liked the pace, I liked the final battle.  This movie made a great lego game! 

Sith, for all its flaws, was a good movie.  Sure, it will never be considered a great movie by any critical standards, but I enjoyed it.  Some parts of it were just really stupid.  Jedi, for all its flaws was about in the same situation.  I can't really say there were some parts of it that were really stupid.  I voted for it.

[knightstorm]

I wanted all Ewoks to be turned into fur coats.  i absolutly hated it.  The attack to blow up the new Death Star, sucked.  Fly the MF inside and hit the core reactor, with more nimble Tie fighters not being able to follow it, yeah right.

In the previous two films we established that Imperial pilots suck.

[marstone]

I know, the imperial pilots sucked.  But how did they go from the Clone Warrior awesome pilots to Imperial Pilots not being able to fly through a whole twice their size (that the MF could fly through and just barely fit)?

[knightstorm]

Genetic deterioration from repeated clonings?  Abbreviated, and inferior flight training as the empire began to rely on numbers as opposed to quality?

[762_XC]

That would only happen if they cloned each generation from the previous one. From all we've seen it looked like the Kaminoans were using only the original DNA.

[knightstorm]

I'm just throwing ideas out there about how the storm troopers went from the powerful fighting force that they were in the prequels to the walking bullseyes that they were in the original trilogy.  Other than the fact that they're the badguy's henchmen now so they're easy to kill.

[EschelonOfJudgemnt]

Well, the stormtroopers seemed to do well enough assaulting Leah's diplomatic transport. I saw several dead rebels in that corridor.  Those may have been Vader's handpicked troops, however.

Keep in mind that Episode Six brought us that iconic Akbar line:

It's a trap!

[marstone]

and they have stormtrooper armour that doesn't protect against a hand throw rock, or stick.

[FRA.E.Kehakoul_XC]

In regard to Obi wan not recognizing the robots,i found it to be perfectly logical.
If you bring the sequences up in your mind you will notice Obi wan doesn't admire technology hes pure on the other side of the spectrum.
 For him they are just tools,.. i cant remember any scene where he would call them by their names.
When he first saw c3po the android wasn't completely assembled. I remember the scene when he flew to that clone planet,.. a lot of swearing in that one regarding technology:).
If you connect that with the fact how cybernetic implants a valued.,as symbols for drifting to the dark side it becomes even more obvious.
And culminates in yodas hide..in episode V bare of any technology.

[marstone]

after 18 years those droids all look alike.  Since R2 was saying he was the property of Obi-Wan, Kenobi had said, "I don't remember owning any droids"  which was true, they were not his.  After all that time an R2 would look like any other R2.  Also, the last time he saw 3PO, it had really shiny gold colored skin.  now it is just a beat up old thing.  I could see him not recognizing those droids.

[knightstorm]

Well, the stormtroopers seemed to do well enough assaulting Leah's diplomatic transport. I saw several dead rebels in that corridor.  Those may have been Vader's handpicked troops, however.

They had a large numerical advantage, and were fighting people with the goofiest looking helmets ever.

and they have stormtrooper armour that doesn't protect against a hand throw rock, or stick.

That's because the Empire is corrupt, and greedy officials pocket most of the money and send the troopers out with unacceptably thin armor.

[Kreeargh]

Return Of The Jedi.  I left the theater in a good mood.

Revenge Of The Sith.  I left the theater saying to my brother "There's two and a half hours of my life I'm not getting back".

Episode III was a disappointment to me on so many levels. But I can sum it up around Anakin Skywalker's script.  You KNEW going in to the theater how he'd end up, but I kept waiting for plot twists, etc. which might make you think otherwise.  Instead, he beelined to the dark side, and no suprises.

It's kind of like reading the last chapter of a novel first.  We had that with Episode IV-VI.  Lucas knew that we all knew, and yet made absolutely no effort to titilate us with plot twists r.e. Anakin.

Special Effects aside, Episode III is by far the worst Star Wars Movie ever.  At least with the Ewoks, while too cute, you were rooting for the guys as they bashed Imperial scout walkers!

I wasn't rooting for anything in Episode III.  Other than for the pain to end after the first hour...

The lava sequences were nice looking though.  Just not nice enough for me to endure that POS piece of writing again.

I Vote for Epp3  Its hard for me to like 2 mini sasquatch and an adult to be the saviors of the universe. One can get real sick of ewoks even as a kid  in the 80s. If it wasnt for Chewy and the crew of that walker  the story would be crapola.  I was not a fan of any of the 3 new movies untill i watched them for the 20th time but the storys must go on.  The clone wars anime shows helps .  Epp3 wins my vote. Starwars fan here!

[762_XC]

and they have stormtrooper armour that doesn't protect against a hand throw rock, or stick.

LOL yes, and this.

[Kreeargh]

Well, the stormtroopers seemed to do well enough assaulting Leah's diplomatic transport. I saw several dead rebels in that corridor.  Those may have been Vader's handpicked troops, however.

They had a large numerical advantage, and were fighting people with the goofiest looking helmets ever.

and they have stormtrooper armour that doesn't protect against a hand throw rock, or stick.

That's because the Empire is corrupt, and greedy officials pocket most of the money and send the troopers out with unacceptably thin armor.

Ohhhhhhhh i see a snap to real life stuff. I think about the pic with bush as vader oooooo not cool i think no matter!
I will ignore an one should if so and say sith dont care about funds they want power funds are part of power but with the sith funds are not needed. SO no greed there more slavery and by the way, most STORM troopers are NOT clones they are the same as our own military. Han solo was a storm trooper so far as i read  The clones i hope died out at some point.   

[knightstorm]

Ohhhhhhhh i see a snap to real life stuff. I think about the pic with bush as vader oooooo not cool i think no matter!

Ahh NO.  One of things that sucked about the prequels was Lucas' attempt to inject his tired left wing rhetoric into the film.  There was no need for him to put Bush's words in Vader's mouth in ROTS, and Obi Wan's stupid reply was hypocritical.  "only the sith deal in absolutes" THAT IS AN ABSOLUTE YOU &*(&(ing MORON!!  My statement had nothing to do with Bush, it was merely an attempt to explain why the Storm troopers have armor which is clearly useless.  Corruption has been an evil to be fought ever since we started using a professional military as opposed to having soldiers purchase their own gear.

sith dont care about funds they want power funds are part of power but with the sith funds are not needed

The sith don't care, but they rule the empire through officers and officials that are corrupt and/or incompotent.

most STORM troopers are NOT clones they are the same as our own military. Han solo was a storm trooper so far as i read  The clones i hope died out at some point.   

You shouldn't use anything you've read.  Using the expanded universe chronology has several flaws.  For one thing, it was started before the prequels, so when Lucas took things in a different direction, they started making really convoluted turns in order to try to reconcile themselves with the films.  Also, its a different media with different needs.  As a result, it is filled with super jedi who make me wonder why they needed a chosen one since there are so many who have more power in their pinky than Palpatine had in his whole body.  There is nothing in the films to suggest that Han was a storm trooper, and nothing to suggest that the empire stopped using clones.  I can't see the emperor abandoning the use of clones who are loyal solely to him in favor of an army of individuals who may be loyal to their homes and their families.

[Brush Wolf]

I think the Han was a Stormtrooper bit comes from his military style pants. If we accept that Han was involved with the military but not as a trooper the best place for him to come from would be the navy, pilot most likely.

[knightstorm]

One good thing about ROTS, it did give us the audio for this awesome video

Sith Lord Tom Cruise destroys Oprah!!

[Kreeargh]

Ohhhhhhhh i see a snap to real life stuff. I think about the pic with bush as vader oooooo not cool i think no matter!

Ahh NO.  One of things that sucked about the prequels was Lucas' attempt to inject his tired left wing rhetoric into the film.  There was no need for him to put Bush's words in Vader's mouth in ROTS, and Obi Wan's stupid reply was hypocritical.  "only the sith deal in absolutes" THAT IS AN ABSOLUTE YOU &*(&(ing MORON!!  My statement had nothing to do with Bush, it was merely an attempt to explain why the Storm troopers have armor which is clearly useless.  Corruption has been an evil to be fought ever since we started using a professional military as opposed to having soldiers purchase their own gear.

sith dont care about funds they want power funds are part of power but with the sith funds are not needed

The sith don't care, but they rule the empire through officers and officials that are corrupt and/or incompotent.

most STORM troopers are NOT clones they are the same as our own military. Han solo was a storm trooper so far as i read  The clones i hope died out at some point.   

You shouldn't use anything you've read.  Using the expanded universe chronology has several flaws.  For one thing, it was started before the prequels, so when Lucas took things in a different direction, they started making really convoluted turns in order to try to reconcile themselves with the films.  Also, its a different media with different needs.  As a result, it is filled with super jedi who make me wonder why they needed a chosen one since there are so many who have more power in their pinky than Palpatine had in his whole body.  There is nothing in the films to suggest that Han was a storm trooper, and nothing to suggest that the empire stopped using clones.  I can't see the emperor abandoning the use of clones who are loyal solely to him in favor of an army of individuals who may be loyal to their homes and their families.

I think you belive  and hate to much no offence, But the first 3 movies were movies at first. Lucas vision didnt come to a final till Jedi. When he got the tech he needed he rethought the prequils for $  kids are more a $ maker than adults! Story 85% FOR THEM!   His and other co wrighters are as say liberal and i was not happy about the themes shown in the prequils. I did not quote you then so whats your issue with me?  I dont want a fight its all opinions i thought.

[knightstorm]

My issue with you is that you basically accused me of viewing Return of the Jedi through the lens of left wing politics.

[Sirgod]

Gentlemen, please take any political disagreements to Hot and Spicy.

Thanks,

Stephen