Topic: Sci Fi Poll 15 Star Trek Edition.

[knightstorm]

The real Capt Kirk would of taken the capt seat instead of going down to fix those isolinear chips.

The whole point of him not taking the captain's seat was because he was acknowledging that his era was over and that it was time for him to step aside for the new generation.

[Age]

The real Capt Kirk would of taken the capt seat instead of going down to fix those isolinear chips.

The whole point of him not taking the captain's seat was because he was acknowledging that his era was over and that it was time for him to step aside for the new generation.

That was Berman and Braga's Idea as I read in magazine there was alternate version of the script that did not include him dying.

[FPF-Tobin Dax]

lotta apocryphal info and confirmation bias in those posts. Not calling anyone a liar, but the old "friend of mine" anecdote usually turns out to be bogus.

-the blindfold on the bust of GR is common knowledge, in many articles and books (ie - STTNG Companion). RB put the blindfold on when a writer was suggesting something contrary to GR's vision (ie, using "space pirates" in TNG "The Gambit"), but the blindfold was a joke, get it?

- I'm trying hard not let sarcasm or snark sneak in here - I was sorta making a joke about Scotty's confusion, but duh, "Relics" was witten 2 years before "Generations." They certainly weren't going to go back and reshoot the TV show, and since Doohan was one of the few TOS cast to sign up for Generations, so they had to use him. It's like "UESPA" or "Romulans are pure impulse" in TOS, TV writers will write their episodes, not think "what if they make a movie involving these chaacters someday that contradict my lovely scene?"

- by most reports, GR and RB got along pretty famously, and RB strove pretty hard to follow GRs vision while trying to make a fresh TV show. It's pretty safe to say that RB was the chosen successor, and chosen by GR himself.

- I'm old fanbase, kid. I watched every episode of anything called Star Trek, live from 1969 on. I loved TOS, and I loved TNG. In fact, I liked or loved all of it until Abrams came along.

Television is a producer's medium. The EP runs the show and makes the big calls, the producers make it happen and work, and writers bring in ideas and characterizations, which the actors bring to life. There were a lot of producers and writers that made TOS happen, and GR has gotten a little too much solo credit over the years, something I think even he would admit to. Gene Coon, Bob Justman, DC Fontana and dozens of others made TOS happen, just as Justman, Piller Braga and dozens made TNG happen. I think it comes down a personal choice - did you like TNG (and their followups)? If you hated it, then there's nothing anyone can say good about it or Berman that you won't scoff at.

Film is a director's medium. What's true of TV production still holds true here, but it's the director who drives and molds the film. If you gonna throw some hate on TMP, make sure you hit Wise with some of that. GR wasn't a movie producer, for sure, but what Paramount movies was doing was trying to cut out the guy who would say "In the ST future humans aren't into greed and revenge and all those things that make we make movies out of." And lo, they made movies that were Star Wars clones about blowing up the Death Star instead of science fiction.

In honor of this thread, I went and put a skirt on. It's called a kilt. C'mon, say something about it, I dare you...

Good thing in this case. My friend was a videographer for space the imagination station at the time, Canada's version fo sci-fi, er syfy.

I watched trek 1st run from 1966 on...I have worked professionally in television since 1980 and I have Scottish ancestry. So there!   

[TAnimaL]

...I have worked professionally in television since 1980 and I have Scottish ancestry. So there!   

I'm Irish laddie, so my kilt is solid colored!
Nice to know there's another old-timer AND a fellow video professional. What're you? Production? Post? I was a cameraman in my twenties, but been an editor for the last 20.

Kids today have it easy. When I learned how to cut videotape, we cut videotape. As in with a razorblade.

[EschelonOfJudgemnt]

Just remember, Generations is still better than Star Trek V...

I actually was somewhat enjoying STV UNTIL they went to the center of the galaxy.  At that point, disappointment set in...

Haven't watched V recently though, so other than the fact there was a sequence on the Bonneville Salt Flats, I don't remember much.  Probably a good thing.

Thank goodness STVI was much better!  My personal fave, which barely edges out STII by a hair in my book.  R.E. II, I still miss the phaser buzzsaw effect.  Best special effect that was never used again!  Photons get boring after awhile...

[knightstorm]

STV is kind of ominous when you consider that Nichelle Nichols' brother died with the Heavens Gate cult a few years later.

[marstone]

I voted Star Trek TMP as Generations was the start of the death of the franchise.The real Capt Kirk would of taken the capt seat instead of going down to fix those isolinear chips.

Disagree, Kirk was always a "I will do it" captain.  He never sat in the capt seat if he could be on an away party.  They even referenced it in one of the movies when Spock said something like "I assume stating that regulations state that the Captain is not to do such and such would help"  Kirk replied something like, "Yep, your right on that".  (major paraphrase since scene was last seen something like 20 years ago).

[FPF-Tobin Dax]

...I have worked professionally in television since 1980 and I have Scottish ancestry. So there!   

I'm Irish laddie, so my kilt is solid colored!
Nice to know there's another old-timer AND a fellow video professional. What're you? Production? Post? I was a cameraman in my twenties, but been an editor for the last 20.

Kids today have it easy. When I learned how to cut videotape, we cut videotape. As in with a razorblade.

Mostly production work. I started as a VTR editor and playback operator, working with Ampex 2 inch quadreplex machines. I spent a few years in master control and then moved on to audio for most of my career. I have been a technical director for the last few years and I also direct our weekend news shows.

Mother's side Scottish, father's side Irish here.

[Lieutenant_Q]

I voted Star Trek TMP as Generations was the start of the death of the franchise.The real Capt Kirk would of taken the capt seat instead of going down to fix those isolinear chips.

Disagree, Kirk was always a "I will do it" captain.  He never sat in the capt seat if he could be on an away party.  They even referenced it in one of the movies when Spock said something like "I assume stating that regulations state that the Captain is not to do such and such would help"  Kirk replied something like, "Yep, your right on that".  (major paraphrase since scene was last seen something like 20 years ago).

Actually it was the 2009 Star Trek Movie, where Spock tells Kirk, "I would quote the appropriate regulation, but I know that you will ignore it."

[marstone]

I voted Star Trek TMP as Generations was the start of the death of the franchise.The real Capt Kirk would of taken the capt seat instead of going down to fix those isolinear chips.

Disagree, Kirk was always a "I will do it" captain.  He never sat in the capt seat if he could be on an away party.  They even referenced it in one of the movies when Spock said something like "I assume stating that regulations state that the Captain is not to do such and such would help"  Kirk replied something like, "Yep, your right on that".  (major paraphrase since scene was last seen something like 20 years ago).

Actually it was the 2009 Star Trek Movie, where Spock tells Kirk, "I would quote the appropriate regulation, but I know that you will ignore it."

Really, I seem to recall an earlier one, but I will buy it.  My Star Trek is fuzzy, I'm old and all.  Remembering all the Star Trek all the way back to the original makes it all sort of a lump.

[Age]

I voted Star Trek TMP as Generations was the start of the death of the franchise.The real Capt Kirk would of taken the capt seat instead of going down to fix those isolinear chips.

Disagree, Kirk was always a "I will do it" captain.  He never sat in the capt seat if he could be on an away party.  They even referenced it in one of the movies when Spock said something like "I assume stating that regulations state that the Captain is not to do such and such would help"  Kirk replied something like, "Yep, your right on that".  (major paraphrase since scene was last seen something like 20 years ago).

He wasn't going on an away mission though and who wouldn't want to take the Capt seat of the Ent.-B as he has big ego.

[Nemesis]

TMP had a lot going for it. The plot was novel,

Really?  Old probe mysteriously becomes super powered by an alien encounter and endangers Earth?  Changeling Mark II to me.

[TAnimaL]

well, at the time, sorta new-ish...
I "think" they were sorta going for a Planet Of The Apes/Soylent Green surprise twist; yeah, similar plot to Changeling but they knew in the first act that it was an old Earth probe, not in the climactic scene.

working with Ampex 2 inch quadreplex machines.

ah, 2"... a couple of years ago I was freelance at a post house redoing their facilities and they had a working 1" Ampex; me & the other old-timer were stressing putting it in clear view in the tape room, next to the P2 rack, so clients could say, "wow, these guys have experience and can do it all."

It wound up in the back of the tape room, hidden 

[Nemesis]

You do realize that there's no "super notebook" with all of Trek layed out in order?

I`ve never worked in the industry but from my reading I understand that it is common for a show to have a `Bible`that is used to maintain continuity.  I`m pretty sure they didn`t do it during TOS days but probably did by the time of TNG.

[Nemesis]

Also, I blame the failure of Enterprise not on the quality of the show, but on the fact that it was tied to UPN.

I blame it on throwing out the continuity which alienated Trek fans while not attracting new fans. 

[TAnimaL]

[ I understand that it is common for a show to have a `Bible`that is used to maintain continuity.

The "bible" is common in TV, and they did have one for TOS, TNG, DS9, et. al., but it's not what you think. It's a guide to writers about the characters and set up, so in ST it would say what phasers are, info on the ship, people's backgorunds, and such. It has nothing to do with plotting and story arcs: even with shows like "X-Files" "Babylon 5" and "BSG-new" that have long-running arcs, the individual scripts are written as the show goes. It's not about continuity. Most, if not all shows, hire a lot of freelance writers to supply  scripts, so the bible is a guide for newbies.

One of the best books on how television shows get made happens to be "The Making of Star Trek" by Stephen Whitfield. Worth a read from both the ST perspective and how TV shows happen.

[marstone]

[ I understand that it is common for a show to have a `Bible`that is used to maintain continuity.

The "bible" is common in TV, and they did have one for TOS, TNG, DS9, et. al., but it's not what you think. It's a guide to writers about the characters and set up, so in ST it would say what phasers are, info on the ship, people's backgorunds, and such. It has nothing to do with plotting and story arcs: even with shows like "X-Files" "Babylon 5" and "BSG-new" that have long-running arcs, the individual scripts are written as the show goes. It's not about continuity. Most, if not all shows, hire a lot of freelance writers to supply  scripts, so the bible is a guide for newbies.

One of the best books on how television shows get made happens to be "The Making of Star Trek" by Stephen Whitfield. Worth a read from both the ST perspective and how TV shows happen.

one of the reasons so many shows are/were written to be self contained episodes.  so continuity wouldn't be a factor, new people wouldn't feel lost because they didn't know the earlier shows, they also can break anything done earlier to make a new episode work (which is done alot).

The reason a laser pistol from the pilot time of TOS became a phaser wasn't that new tech was made, but it sounded more future tech.

[knightstorm]

I thought the reason they changed laser to phaser was to make it more fictional, so that their uses of it in the storyline wouldn't be hampered by reality.

[marstone]

I thought the reason they changed laser to phaser was to make it more fictional, so that their uses of it in the storyline wouldn't be hampered by reality.

right, it sounds more future tech, thus can't be compared to actual tech.  People understood lasers (somewhat) at that time.  But a phaser was something totally new (but sounded in the same branch as a laser, so believable).  They even had futuristic salt and pepper shakers for the show, but they were not used in the mess hall.  They ended up being medical tools for Bones. 

[FPF-Tobin Dax]

You do realize that there's no "super notebook" with all of Trek layed out in order?

I`ve never worked in the industry but from my reading I understand that it is common for a show to have a `Bible`that is used to maintain continuity.  I`m pretty sure they didn`t do it during TOS days but probably did by the time of TNG.

They did employ a "librarian" during the TNG years who helped research the continuity aspect. I remember reading this at startrek.com when he got laid off. 

Enterprise got better when Manny Coto became the show runner for season for as he knew his star trek stuff.