Topic: Starship "poll" #1

[FoaS_XC]

Introducing the first of a series of questions. Share your thoughts on the matter in replies - Threads will be open for a week for people to weigh in and discuss, and then we'll move on to more questions.

Question number one: What is your favorite canon Federation design (from any era) and why?

[Chrystoff]

Mine would have to be the Miranda/Reliant/Avenger class. It has a utilitarian, workhorse feel to it that appeals to me. I also like the dual shuttle bays, and the "rollbar" weapons pod.

[FoaS_XC]

For me its the Excelsior, as you might have already guessed. The proportions feel solid and but the long lines are graceful and sleek without being a hot rod. Less of a Jeep Wrangler like the Miranda, or the Miata of a Defiant - the Excelsior is a Cadillac.

[I, Mudd.]

The Daedalus class ... ( it IS canon, isn't it???) there's something almost tangible and plausible about the design ... as if we might actually build something like it ... it has always sung to me for some reason.



Mudd.

[762_XC]

TMP Enterprise. It has a grace and elegance that has never been surpassed.

[Kreeargh]

I am a fan of the 1701-C .

[Starfox1701]

Galaxy Class USS Venture. She is the Galaxy class perfected. More poertful weapons, more power to run everything and better impulse engeines so she is actully more menuverable then the Mk 1 like Galaxy and Chalenger even though she come in 600,000 tons heavier. She is the badest of the bad. Fought through the Dominion war and set the standard.

[Norsehound]

The Refit Constitution "Enterprise" class.

Much of the movies is, as I see it, the mature form of the Original series and the Refit Connie is no exception. She takes off the muted paint, stick-like support struts, and clumbsy greebling and streamlines her into a mechanical bird. The nacelle struts swoop, the blocks and greebles flow with the rest of the design, and she's illuminated like a real vessel. Her bare metal hull adds a level of detail that the original could not.

She is Star Trek at it's height during the mid 1980s, representing a bold Federation ready to take on anything and a franchise that wasn't afraid to be bold about shooting adventures in space. Enterprise-A is just as effective of a warship as a vehicle for exploration.

The Miranda/Avenger/Reliant is a hot contender, if not surpasses the Enterprise. Compact, cut-down, and being the co-star of TWOK, the Reliant is a pure military vessel sporting better firing angles and better guns. Her compact form implies she can turn quicker, move faster, and won't catch her angles on anything. Where the Enterprise epitomizes grace, the Reliant emphasizes compactness... while still retaining the material aesthetic of the Enterprise. She is indeed a counterpart to the Refit constitution in many ways, yet still remain a contemporary.

Maybe a third category is all TMP-era ships in general. I'm disappointed there was never a TV show set in this era because it would have been the most awesome thing ever.

[atheorhaven]

Simple, for me anyways.

TOS Connie - the original, and the one that started it all.  Iconic, simple and clean.  My next favourites are derivative works off that, Phase II Connie (as done by Schtupp and coloured illumination maps by me) actually comes ahead of the TMP Connie at number 3.

Yes, someone's work from here is actually my Number 2.  And here's why.. after all these years, I still freaking LOVE this ship..   

[Chrystoff]

atheorhaven, you're right; that USS Doohan is a beautiful ship. I use it as my Galactic Exploration Cruiser.

Hey, Fury, I also agree with you on the Excelsior. However, and people have heard me rail on this topic before, I much prefer the Ingram Class SCS design over the Excelsior. It just seems like a more fleshed out, logical design evolution of the Excelsior. Bear in mind, that's just my opinion. I respect other's opinions on this.

[FoaS_XC]

I'm actually more a fan of the Enterprise-B - I like the protrusions on the secondary hull - they were a good visual breakup of the smooth hull. As far as the Ingram, or the Doohan: remember: we're talking Canon

[Chrystoff]

As far as the Ingram, or the Doohan: remember: we're talking Canon

I know, you're right, lol. 

[FoaS_XC]

Maybe a third category is all TMP-era ships in general. I'm disappointed there was never a TV show set in this era because it would have been the most awesome thing ever.

Quoted for massive amounts of truth! the TMP has always been, and will always be, my favorite era.

[atheorhaven]

I'm actually more a fan of the Enterprise-B - I like the protrusions on the secondary hull - they were a good visual breakup of the smooth hull. As far as the Ingram, or the Doohan: remember: we're talking Canon

Phase II was canon, it was just briefly canon before it went on to TMP.  My view is that if Paramount used the Phase II design to advertise TMP in Marvel Comics (and DC at the time), then that makes it canon.. if only to be superseded by TMP shortly there after once those designs were fleshed out.

That's my little soapbox, and I stand on it stamping and pointing at all non-believers.  >=)

[FoaS_XC]

Personally, I'm willing to call it Sanon (Damnit, if people can make a word out of Fan Canon, then I can make a word out of Semi-Canon). For this? we can call that canon

[Norsehound]

I'm actually more a fan of the Enterprise-B - I like the protrusions on the secondary hull - they were a good visual breakup of the smooth hull. As far as the Ingram, or the Doohan: remember: we're talking Canon

Mnn... I don't like the Enterprise B because it breaks up the form of the Excelsior's lines. It's too many additions.

Part of the reason why I like the TMP/TOS era is that many of the designs and shapes use perfect circles and geometry without a lot of clutter. When seen from the top, the Excelsior can be represented by circles and squares. From the front, it has a semi-circular cross-section on the engineering hull before connecting to the engineering section. The secondary hull from the front, and primary hull from the top, on the Enterprise are also perfect circles.

The Enterprise-B makes the design too busy in my opinion, with additions that hurt, rather than support, the shape simplicity in the Excelsior. It's really interesting how the NX-2000 design fits so well into TMP alongside the Enterprise-class while giving off the sense that it IS the B-29 to the Enterprise's B-17. I also feel the NX-2000 from ST3 represents a future of Star Trek that was never capitalized on. TNG's world became more homely, expressing creature comforts over utility. In my opinion this makes starfleet seem unwilling to take combat (and by extension, the dangers of space exploration) seriously. NX-2000 on the other hand still has that utility of the Motion picture era but expanded with a new level of technology. The NCC-2000 version (and the Ent-B) we see later is just a brick in the road to TNG, and moves away from the promise given in the NX design.

[knightstorm]

My fav is easily the Constitution refit

I also really like the Sovereign.  It seems to have the most attractive features of all of the preceding ships.  The sleek hullform of the Intrepid class, the back swept nacelle pylons of the Refit Constitution, and the long nacelles of the Excelsior.  In my opinion, it is much worthier of the name Enterprise than the Galaxy class.

[FoaS_XC]

Mmm - I can live without the extra impulse engines and the fins and nacelle caps on the Ent-B - but I really like those chin extensions for some reason. *shrug* I can't articulate why, but you definitely have a point.

@Knightstorm - I'm with you on the Sovereign and the Galaxy both. I might get flamed, but I was never big on the Galaxy.

[Wicked Zombie]

I generally favor the TMP era as a whole, but I don't have a specific favorite from that time frame. Since we're talking single, canon designs, then I'd have to jump ahead to the TNG era and go with the Galaxy class. It has an epic majesty, and the design is distilled to the point where it can't be easily kitbashed or modified without looking silly or pointless. Not that it hasn't been tried...

For you Miranda fans, there's this video courtesy of DrexFiles that you might find interesting.

[marstone]

Original Enterprise.  I guess it is mainly that I like the ship as it was what I first seen.  I don't mind seeing alittle massaging of the ship (but pulling it close to TMP/TNG etc I say meh).  when I think SFB/SFC the original series is the ships (mainly as that is the timeframe it was based on, the game never got to the movie ships as they didn't have the writes to that material.

Now I like some of the other era ships (Even the JJ stuff) for different reasons, but when asked about the gut love, it is the original.

[Bernard Guignard]

TMP Enterprise and TOS Enterprise   

[Czar Mohab]

Question number one: What is your favorite canon Federation design (from any era) and why?

Glad that you worded it that way. Leaves LOTS open

For me, I have many, with one that is "king of the hill". I'll break them down:

TOS:
Gotta go with the Constitution class here. Utilitarian with smooth lines and a feeling of balance between all of the roles that a TOS era ship would need to fill; the cruiser is built as a jack of all trades ship, and it shows.

A good runner up here is Station K7. I'm just not sure if it is a Federation design or not; but the way it is built fits both the era and style of Federation building, so it easily could be.

TAS:
I'm not 100% clear on the canon-ness of TAS (last I knew it was, but before it wasn't... so...), so I'll play a "sanon" card just in case. So with that said, the Constitution takes the win here, too, but not the main star of the show - the inflatable decoy. While such a thing is highly suspect to critisism, and believability, it was still awesome to see.

TMP:
Stardock. Why? I don't know. Just seemed to me that something as big as the Enterprise being worked on in something so much bigger... its more of a "that's cool" than anything else. Enterprise gets the runner up slot here, she's the star of the show, but for me shown off too much in this one.

TWoK:
The Reliant gets the win here. I see the ship/class as being a compact version of everything that the more familiar Constitution is with some other side benifits from its smaller frame. The runner up here for me is the Regula Station (sorry Enterprise) simply because at this point in Trek history it is one more unique item for us to ponder over; "that thingie there - whazzat?"

TSfS, TVH:
Enterprise herself takes the win for these two movies. Runners up include Study model II Variant II of the McQuarrie Enterprise (TSfS) for its "WTH is that!?" factor and the Grissom (TSfS) for its (at the time) uniqueness; and the Excelsior (TVH).

TFF:
I absolutely HATE the way that the Enterprise is portrayed in this film, but that is not why I am going to say that the shuttlecraft (Galileo 5 type) gets the win. I see this beast of a tiny ship as the logical step between the original Galileo and the future TNG  Type 6 shuttle; and even a bit into the type 7. No runner up here.

TUC:
Excelsior gets it here, and for reasons already stated: She's a cadilac in the world of jeeps. Enterprise gets the runner up.

TNG:
Oh my - you do realize how many designs are in TNG? Ambassador class gets the win for all of TNG, despite the super rare appearance rate. Nebula, Constellation, and Galaxy take a very close third. In second place? Constitution class refit(yep. I said it) simply beacuse, 80ish years after it was common to have around, there's one in BoBW with potentially a second, but it could still be just the saucer of the first.

For the record: AGT Enterprise with big guns and 3rd nacelle was cool, but not cool enough for my list.

DS9:
This is harder to choose from than in TNG - there's more to choose from, from silly designs like the Yeager (really? I can't believe that they built this) to the more believable Centaur. So, I will go with the Dominion War refit Galaxy class, with the Defiant taking a tie for first. The Federation finallt threw of the gauntlets and began building/refitting for war. Powerful weapons on sleek and elegant lines (Galaxy class) and an extremly unique vessel with the look and feel of a warship (Defiant). The runner up here is the Danube class runabout, since these super shuttles were all that they had for two seasons, and were still used through all 7 seasons. They could fight, they could flee, and they looked pretty cool while supporting the station.

While not a "Federation" design, I liked the station, too.

Generations:
Enterprise-B - we finally get to see this ship as more than just a brassy looking model on the Ent-D's wall. She has some issues with pieces and parts that screw with the sleek lines of the ship, but ultimately it isn't that bad, and she's the new Caddy of the fleet. There isn't much else that hasn't already been seen in Trek by this point, so no runner up.

Voy:
Type 9 shuttle gets the win here. Its sleek, its useful , its -- cool. Nova gets the runner up slot. For those that had the TNG tech manual, you know that this ship is mentioned in the book, and finally we get to see it on screen. But the best part of this class? It blows up nicely. Voyager? Its purdy and all, but after seeing it for 7 seasons... ugh...

FC:
Akira and Steamrunner. Both have a "that's cool" look to them, but also both have the "warship with laboratories" look to them; like when the war is over, they're goin out explorin'.

Insurrection:
Data's scout ship. Its cool. 'nuff said.

You'll note that the Sovereign class Enterprise-E wasn't mentioned. I don't like it in these two movies as much as I like it in...

Nemisis:
Enterprise-E. Smooth, sleek and looks very fast. I don't think that this was a ship built for war but the refits required by one made it to the hull; but regardless, this is a ship of exploration, and of going where no one has gone before. The ship is purdy despite the overly dark feel of the movie, almost as if any alien planet would want one orbiting so they can brag to their friends.

Enterprise:
While canon enough, nothing here is technically "Federation" designed. The Federation was formed in the last episode, which means that anything designed and in service prior to that point by members of that Federation, would be possible Federation designs... right?

No, I won't say NX-01 for my choice here. I will, however, say that I really liked the shuttle pods. They weren't the star of the show, but they were very good supporting actors. They fit the era well, and you can see in them a pure utility vehicle with just enough streamlinging to qualify for "sport" status. Plus, somewhere along the growth of the newly formed UFP, they would have needed a basis to design a new shuttlepod/shuttlecraft to fill the shuttle/launch bays of the new Federation ships rolling off the lines... and until that design was finallized, I'm sure these space SUVs filled in nicely.


The overall winner:

The refit Constitution. Her lines keep true to the original while still pointing to the future. She's an explorer, not a warship. But when push comes to shove you bet you're going to get more than you thought you would by lookin' at her. The ship not only looks reliable, it is proven reliable; beat to hell and back she still brought Kirk and crew home⁽¹⁾. She maintained the fleet strength while the Excelsiors, Constellations and Mirandas grew in number to eventually take the torch from her; and did it all while lookin purdy. With a smug smile she slipped into retirement, after all it took at least three new classes of ships to replace her, to fill the void that she left in the fleet when she left. Finally, when asked, she served again, and she went toe-to-toe with the Borg at Wolf 359, buying precious time for one of her great-grandchildren, a Galaxy class vessel, to catch up with the Borg and ultimately destroy the threat near Earth.

Truely, the Federation owes much to this class.


 
Note:
I said nothing about the "Star Trek - XI" movie - I'm indifferent to the ships and the designs, despite not liking the movie. I hate to say it, but I need to see more (*shudder*) of these ships before I can say anything more about them.



⁽¹⁾: Technically, Spock came home on the HMS Bounty in TVH; but the rest of the main crew made it home in TWoK, and the main crew is assumed returned home following TUC.

[FoaS_XC]

haha! that's it! "Sanon" is now a word.

Czar, you have some really good thoughts there. You reminded me of the Akira and Centaur, both of which I actually very much like.

The K7 station is definitely a fed design, I can't see it being anything else.

[knightstorm]

The K7 station is definitely a fed design, I can't see it being anything else.

Actually, it was designed by Douglas aircraft.

[Norsehound]

the Galaxy class. It has an epic majesty, and the design is distilled to the point where it can't be easily kitbashed or modified without looking silly or pointless. Not that it hasn't been tried...

I was never a huge fan of TNG, but I can agree with this sentiment. The whole design is flowing and complete in a way that reminds me of something either Gene or Jefferies said about the original enterprise: No greebles, no bits, no extensions, fins, or exhaust trails (something to that effect). One could say the Ent-D is extremely streamlined and there are no protrusions interrupting that smoothness. Though I would argue modifying the design detracts from it... the End-D-X from All Good Things is impressive in itself, but takes away something from the simple form of the Galaxy Design.

I think my only critiques about the End-D (putting aside my criticism of TNG's art direction as a whole) are the proportions of the nacelles/body/saucer and the size of the saucer itself. Overall it helps the statement of TNG's character, but I prefer my Enterprise to be more balanced.

----

I may be opening up a can of worms here, but the Trek-11 Enterprise has been growing on me. She's an interesting take on the classical design, almost cutting in a different direction than the Refit Enterprise, but both advancing the basic design. One could say the 11 Enterprise retains the "class" of 1960s art direction into her character while also advancing forward into a streamlined, refined design. About my only complaint at this point is the 'jutting chin' of the secondary hull, but that's a minor point next to the fact that the Enterprise is new again, and has the chance to appear on the big screen. I also think that the closer-placed nacelles is an interesting take on the character of the ship.

Am I also alone in thinking the Kelvin and her ilk fit well as Pre-TOS designs? The Kelvin saucer kind of reminds me of the Baton Rouge class, and all the basic components look like runners-up to what we see in TOS. Even the equipment and uniforms of that period look as if they could transition into what's seen in the original series.

[FoaS_XC]

Am I also alone in thinking the Kelvin and her ilk fit well as Pre-TOS designs? The Kelvin saucer kind of reminds me of the Baton Rouge class, and all the basic components look like runners-up to what we see in TOS. Even the equipment and uniforms of that period look as if they could transition into what's seen in the original series.

You are incredibly NOT alone in that. The kelvin is the basis for my own Pre-TOS fleet.

[marstone]

Am I also alone in thinking the Kelvin and her ilk fit well as Pre-TOS designs? The Kelvin saucer kind of reminds me of the Baton Rouge class, and all the basic components look like runners-up to what we see in TOS. Even the equipment and uniforms of that period look as if they could transition into what's seen in the original series.

You are incredibly NOT alone in that. The kelvin is the basis for my own Pre-TOS fleet.

Well, I can't agree.  Pre-TOS ships that look more advanced then the original Enterprise doesn't work for me.  Now as a reboot pre-TOS sure. 

But I also have to say, I didn't like the Kelvin at all.  It's layout sucked IMHO.  Sorry guys. 

[FoaS_XC]

Well, marstone - consider what I've done with my TOS fleet - the Kelvin fits right in there.

[Norsehound]

Pre-TOS ships that look more advanced then the original Enterprise doesn't work for me. 

Does your sentiment also include the NX-01?

After reading Doug Drexler's blog about the design of the NX-01 I've become less opposed to that design. They tried, but it appears executive meddling made it the way it was. In truth perhaps the Pre-Enterprise vision of Pre-TOS wasn't as visually exiting as the suits wanted, and Enterprise ended up the way it was. Kudos to Manny Coto for trying to repair the damage left by B&B, and bigger Kudos to Drexler for conceiving a potential 5th Season Enterprise refit that would have brought it closer to its successor... and less like the Akira which it was derived from.

[FoaS_XC]

I agree with norsehound completely.

[knightstorm]

Truthfully, I thought the NX class made a good transitional ship between the Phoenix (a rocket with warp nacelles), and early fed ships.

[FoaS_XC]

the NX is decent - the refit of it would've been great as the original ship.

[marstone]

Well, marstone - consider what I've done with my TOS fleet - the Kelvin fits right in there.

I will agree (will have to relook at them again also), but in my eyes most of the pre-TOS and TOS ships being made to me look like TMP or later ships that are blanded or simplified alittle.  But compared to the 1701 they look more advanced and of the later generation ships.  now with the reboot of the 1701 with the new movie, I can reset my baseline to fit them in.  But as for the classic ship, most of the ships being done just don't fit right in my eyes.

Not that they look bad or anything like that.  Great ships, just not my taste for that generation of ships.

A reason I usually don't post on WIP/model threads. 

[intermech]

My favorite is the Defiant. No, not because it is a hot-rod, but because of the esthetics. I like ships that take cues from this design as well; the steamrunner, for example. I would really like to see some cruisers with Defiant design philosophy.

[Magnum357]

I'm very suprised you came up with this question.  I have seen so many different designs over the years for Fed ships (some bad, a lot of them really good!) that most seem like good canidates for Star Trek shows (excpet maybe the Titan, I think I could have designed a better ship there on the book cover, but what do I know). 

This is why I'm always open to canon and "non-canon" designs because there are just too many good artists out there now with computers that can even kick the crap out of a California design studios best nerds.  Power to the people I guess. 

I'll just have to "abstain" on this poll.  Just can't give an opinion on the best design.  As kirk once said to scotty "a ship is a ship" I guess. 

[FoaS_XC]

@magnum, it is the first poll

[FoaS_XC]

Again: this is poll #1 - there will be more.

[atheorhaven]

On a side note, If we ever do a Poll for Best NONE TREK design, I call Destiny from SGU (so sad to see it go) Galactica (original) LEXX and the Event Horizion and War - Leviathan from Farscape (Talon)

I'd only disagree with the War Levithan (as I liked Moyah better) and add in the Cygnus from Black Hole and Red Dwarf.    Will also miss SG:U, though I have a pet theory that you'll see it show up again (as a TV movie probably) in three years (the length of time they're in stasis).  A real-time stasisfield for a TV show would actually be kind of cool.