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Offline ShadowDiver

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Assets/Models/Space....
« on: April 20, 2011, 03:00:18 am »
Can someone please explain to me how to make model files? what program you need to run?

I've figured out how to replace the texture files (removing gas clouds/inserting planets)...but that is way to0 time consuming and not piratical..
also sometimes the images are so skewed it's worthless...

plus I would like to add depth and create my own images....like has anyone ever thought of putting the "USS Cygnus" the ship from Walt Disney's "The Black Hole" out in space next to a black hole that you could never reach? or putting the monolith from 2001 and the Discovery in a still shot?

I made a great Earth file but I can't create one.....humm.....need some help please..
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Offline atheorhaven

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Re: Assets/Models/Space....
« Reply #1 on: April 20, 2011, 10:54:37 am »
Wow, talk about jumping right off into the deep end.  ;)

I'll take a shot at some of these..

Modeliing programs.  Well most of us here are using either Milkshape3D or gmax 1.2 to convert into SFC.. but as long as your modelling program can generate a reasonable .3ds file, someone else can usually port.  Mackie uses Lightwave, and way way back in the SFC1 days, there was a program to convert .LWOs to SFC.. but these days, I think I'm one of the few that does that conversion.

How to add depth and create your own images.. well, any really good program like Paintshop, Paint.Net, GIMP or others (I use PaintShop Pro mostly) will let you edit an image.  My best suggestion is to try modifying some of the stock textures.  Back up all the original textures, and the open some of those up in whatever you choose to texture with, and check the image size.  You might see 64x64, 128x128, and a lot more.. select the full area and go to town.  Save, and start up SFC and see how it looks.

The Cygnus was done, so you could create the shot you're looking for.. and there was a Discovery mesh out there as well.  Monolith would be relatively easy, the trick would be seeing your Monolith mesh against your playing field.

For your Earth file, check out the planets available in game, and then try replacing those textures with your new one.  See how that looks.  :)

Glad to see you here, looks like you've been bitten hard by the modelling bug.  :D
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intermech

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Re: Assets/Models/Space....
« Reply #2 on: April 20, 2011, 12:15:43 pm »
Shadow Diver,

I have messed with this extensively. The best thing to do is to model a cube, face the faces inside, and then apply the textures. You cannot apply depth, i.e. the image will look the same from all angles. I have tried putting model pieces in the middle of the scene, but they get applied to the background. I have several that I have messed with, some I can make available to you tonight as examples. The cubes already made and sized, all you would have to do is change the square texture. Another downside is that SFC seems to pick random backgrounds from the names already there. To test one new one, you will have to replace all space**.mod files with the one you want to test, otherwise, it could be up to 32 missions before you see your new background.

Where is Fallen Warrior? I gave him a whole slue of backgrounds a few years back, right along the lines of what you are looking for with planets and such.
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Offline FoaS_XC

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Re: Assets/Models/Space....
« Reply #3 on: April 20, 2011, 12:47:52 pm »
Sorry, I saw this topic but I couldn't reply to it before work.

I know you have GMax, but I can't remember the workflow to get models from gmax into game.

For background models I actually have the best luck with making a bunch of planes randomly in the scene so that they are facing towards the center. Then i can paint a texture on each plane as I see fit.

Adding planets to the background could be done similarly, or even modelling in a sphere model, but you'll never be able to reach it. You probably want to mess with the actual planets models/textures to have them actually sit in the flyable area. IIRC someone messed with doing low-orbital battles by using a different background.

I'm not sure if the background is ALWAYS random: i hope that a person who writes the scenario can actually pick one, but who knows.
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Offline ShadowDiver

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Re: Assets/Models/Space....
« Reply #4 on: April 20, 2011, 01:19:17 pm »
all GREAT answers!!! thanks everyone!

I have found that Interstellar Machine is exactly correct I have been creating 32x files to avoid the problem of the random background issue.. also I have noticed that everything appears to be in a sphere model like FoaS suggest, but there seems to be no consistency in shape or size. I have found like atheorhaven said that most images are 64 up to 256.. I myself have inserted images up to 2048x2048 the clarity is amazing!!
but my problem here is that the shapes of the panels are screwed up (ex: earth is in the shape of a kidney) or (planet fills whole panel in one scene but in another one it's too small)

I will upload my space file so you guys can look at it and give my some constructive criticism..lol

I do like the box idea....humm...

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intermech

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Re: Assets/Models/Space....
« Reply #5 on: April 20, 2011, 01:33:11 pm »
FOAS, I was, at least one of the people doing low orbit battles. When I worked on a project with Fallen Warrior, he had a programmer on the team doing scenarios and according to them, choosing the background was not possible. I tried several other things, including altering one of the  . . .  if forget, *.gf ? files in meta assets that lists the background names, but it did not seem to make a difference.

Shadow Diver, the portions of the sphere are specifically mapped to the shape of the particular image. If you have a comet for example already in the game and then you try to replace it with the earth, it will either chop parts of the earth off, or stretch it out. The best thing is to use a cube. I have some that you can use already in mod format, all you will have to do is make 6 square textures and replace the ones I have mapped them to. You won't have to mess with the *.mod files I give you. Unfortunately it won't be till later this evening, check back here about 8:00 eastern.
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Offline ShadowDiver

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Re: Assets/Models/Space....
« Reply #6 on: April 20, 2011, 02:33:55 pm »
GREAT....THANK YOU!!!


ps...Low orbit view can be accomplished by using a terrain texture model as a ship model, I will upload the file tonight..

but you guys already know that..  lol.... :-\
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intermech

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Re: Assets/Models/Space....
« Reply #7 on: April 20, 2011, 06:48:12 pm »
Here is a link to a sample model:

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/3234901/Misty%20Lakes.zip

The problem with using a ship model is that when the center of the model is out of the screen, the model disappears. If you have found a way to correct that, I am all ears!!!

I have about 43 megs worth of backgrounds, if you are interested, I can provide a link but it will take time. The zip will be disorganized, but it will give you plenty to mess around with.
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Offline GotAFarmYet?

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Re: Assets/Models/Space....
« Reply #8 on: April 20, 2011, 07:21:46 pm »
Quote from: ShadowDiver on April 20, 2011, 03:00:18 am
Can someone please explain to me how to make model files? what program you need to run?

I've figured out how to replace the texture files (removing gas clouds/inserting planets)...but that is way to0 time consuming and not piratical..
also sometimes the images are so skewed it's worthless...

plus I would like to add depth and create my own images....like has anyone ever thought of putting the "USS Cygnus" the ship from Walt Disney's "The Black Hole" out in space next to a black hole that you could never reach? or putting the monolith from 2001 and the Discovery in a still shot?

I made a great Earth file but I can't create one.....humm.....need some help please..

Think you have your answers now for the planet and space sections
At battle Clinic there are a few space and planet mods that can be downloaded, one of the planet packs is quite good
GMax does have the export features you are looking for to make mod files

The textures can be made to blend a bit by how you make them but their placement on a space scene will be impossible. but if you are just trying to get Renders GMax can do those as well

Quote from: Interstellar Machine on April 20, 2011, 06:48:12 pm
Here is a link to a sample model:

I have about 43 megs worth of backgrounds, if you are interested, I can provide a link but it will take time. The zip will be disorganized, but it will give you plenty to mess around with.

Disorganized!
that sound like my type of organization  ;)
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intermech

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Re: Assets/Models/Space....
« Reply #9 on: April 20, 2011, 07:48:26 pm »
Here is a link to the other backgrounds. There is a set of 21 in one of the folders, these are from a 12 year old game called BANG! Gunship Elite. The others are all made by me.

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/3234901/backgrounds.zip
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Offline FoaS_XC

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Re: Assets/Models/Space....
« Reply #10 on: April 20, 2011, 11:00:04 pm »
Cube environments are tricky - in order to get them to look right there can be a need for distorting the textures - it can get funny.
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Robinomicon
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Offline ShadowDiver

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Re: Assets/Models/Space....
« Reply #11 on: April 21, 2011, 12:55:44 am »
FoaS,  could you do a tutorial on yer site showing sphere design and implementation?


that would really be the best course to take, if you have time...that is.

or really anyone could do it........if they have time..
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Offline ShadowDiver

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Re: Assets/Models/Space....
« Reply #12 on: April 21, 2011, 09:33:20 am »
Great...

Thanks to everyone again.. :) ya'll are a great help no matter what they say..   ::)

has anyone ever done a model like replacing a 3d planet with a derelict space ship? (kinda like the Lost in Space movie) or maybe inserting the DS9 base station to fly around?

again I don't want to mess with the shiplist by replacing a planet model or ship model.. I would want to incorporate it with the other files somehow..

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intermech

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Re: Assets/Models/Space....
« Reply #13 on: April 21, 2011, 09:43:46 am »
Fallen Warrior has done a huge amount of swapping out planets for other things like giant space stations and such. What we found was that, at least in SFC3, there is a set diameter around the center of the model hard coded into the game that acts as a collision point, no matter how small the actual model is. So, you might be heading toward a derelict ship and then explode before you get to it. Another thing I have done (again in SFC3) is to change the ship to be classified as an asteroid. To play the ship, I had to change the default player ship, otherwise I couldn't select it. The fun of it was that I could play Captain Nemo and ram other ships! I have also replaced asteroids with derelicts (I think this was included in my Terra Prime mod over at SFC3files.com). This works better than planets in close proximity.
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Offline ShadowDiver

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Re: Assets/Models/Space....
« Reply #14 on: April 21, 2011, 10:11:17 am »
well thanks for the heads up....Ive been trying to open my Gmax but i keep getting this error..

(Fallen Warrior), do you have a link to your stuff? I would love to look at it and dl if I can...

on BC I found this download for gmax...do I need it? (http://sfc.battleclinic.com/docks/view.php?id=4628)
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Offline ShadowDiver

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Re: Assets/Models/Space....
« Reply #15 on: April 21, 2011, 11:01:57 am »
please ignore my last....
Yes.... I did need it and a little fussing later I got it to work..  :)

thanks guys.....

Now I just need to re-watch all of FoaS tutorials to remember how to use it.....lol
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Offline FoaS_XC

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Re: Assets/Models/Space....
« Reply #16 on: April 22, 2011, 12:26:41 am »
Quote from: ShadowDiver on April 21, 2011, 12:55:44 am
FoaS,  could you do a tutorial on yer site showing sphere design and implementation?


that would really be the best course to take, if you have time...that is.

or really anyone could do it........if they have time..

I will see what I can do :)
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Robinomicon
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Offline ShadowDiver

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Re: Assets/Models/Space....
« Reply #17 on: April 26, 2011, 05:10:02 pm »
OK... I finally got thru remapping all the jpeg images from Interstellar Machines (http://dl.dropbox.com/u/3234901/backgrounds.zip) site
and I got to tell ya'.....

1. The images are OUT OF THIS WORLD FANTASTIC!!!  AAA+++ god I love them...

2. The images are 512 x 512 in a cube like he said but the in-game images are choppy at best...would increasing them to 1024 x 1024 or higher be better... I can see the pixels and distortions....

3. how do I make the lines of the cube disappear...(very annoying..)
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intermech

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Re: Assets/Models/Space....
« Reply #18 on: April 26, 2011, 06:48:11 pm »
First, sorry about the resolution, the graphics are from a ten-year-old game. The atmospheric ones are higher resolution. Second, sorry about the lines. They don't show up in SFC3. This is because of the way they are mapped. The vertecies are placed on the edge of the texture causing the very edges to show part of a line of texture from the opposite side. This can be corrected by pulling those verticies back onto the texture, an easy way to do that is to select them in the mapping environment and scalling by 0.99. Increasing the resolution of the textures "may" have the same effect. Irfanview offers a batch converter that will make it really quick.
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Offline ShadowDiver

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Re: Assets/Models/Space....
« Reply #19 on: April 26, 2011, 11:24:26 pm »
OMG...please don't be sorry for anything..

I love these images.....I just have to figure out how to make them work, that's all..

Now for the funny side here-----I don't have a clue as to what your saying...lol.... :crazy2:

but I'm trying.....learning as I go... :)
in layman's terms...about how long would that take for an average person to correct all 21 models..

Second: should I increase the res to 1024 or even 2048 x 2048 for better detail.....your original images are in a jpeg format so I will be able to increase size with little degradation to the image.
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Offline atheorhaven

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Re: Assets/Models/Space....
« Reply #20 on: April 27, 2011, 01:54:48 pm »
Quote from: Fallen_Warrior on April 27, 2011, 01:06:39 pm
...

I do enjoy the backgrounds that Interstellar managed to get working, the detail and feel of the game becomes amazing. i kinda moved away from them though because of the scale of planet models and also the games Star, the scale for the whole game becomes a bit fruity, but nether the less pure eye candy for in game pics

I dunno.. there's precedence in Star Trek.. you only have to look at ST:Voyager to see that.  ;)

Personally, I'm loving how these are looking.  Love it, love it, love it.  :D
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Offline FoaS_XC

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Re: Assets/Models/Space....
« Reply #21 on: April 27, 2011, 04:47:00 pm »
Bwahahah! Nice!
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Robinomicon
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Offline ShadowDiver

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Re: Assets/Models/Space....
« Reply #22 on: April 27, 2011, 09:12:52 pm »
see this is what I mean......

Dang it!!!

trial and error, then retrial and still error :)


I could not for the life of me figure out why the plasmas I made kept shaking so bad....then BOOM it came to me.....SFC-EAW & OP images might be 256x256..but the inside image is not centered to that size...ergo the shaking happens....

So now I've redone the Ironic plasma based off of a 42x42 square x 6 giving me a new size of 252x252.. I just add 6 to the right side and 6 to the bottom....and presto it works...

So here is the correct working one......enjoy!
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Offline L0vetobowl

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Re: Assets/Models/Space....
« Reply #23 on: April 27, 2011, 09:47:23 pm »
Awesome, the dreaded smiley face ballet.
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Offline FoaS_XC

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Re: Assets/Models/Space....
« Reply #24 on: April 27, 2011, 11:47:58 pm »
Video tutorial is on the way :)
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Robinomicon
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Offline FoaS_XC

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Re: Assets/Models/Space....
« Reply #25 on: April 28, 2011, 01:22:30 pm »
Nebula tutorial is up on my site and youtube.
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Robinomicon
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Offline ShadowDiver

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Re: Assets/Models/Space....
« Reply #26 on: April 29, 2011, 11:40:56 am »
Hi Guys..

ok, I've been working on more (eye candy)...here are a few new dust clouds, backgrounds and ...well......anything you want them to be I guess  :D

enjoy.


oh and can anyone identify the enterprise in this poster shot I found?
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Offline ShadowDiver

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Re: Assets/Models/Space....
« Reply #27 on: April 29, 2011, 12:05:06 pm »
Interstellar Machine, I was wondering....can you make a video / tutorial on how to make a box model or any type of space texture model...I'm really confused on how to do a sphere / box...I can't seem to get it to work right...
I'm using G-Max from discreet, ver.1.2 with vista-pro 32bit....I don't know it that means anything or not but there it is.
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Offline atheorhaven

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Re: Assets/Models/Space....
« Reply #28 on: April 29, 2011, 01:51:58 pm »
Did I miss the Enterprise poster, or was that the shots with your earlier ingame shots?
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Re: Assets/Models/Space....
« Reply #29 on: April 29, 2011, 04:06:01 pm »
Shadow Diver, regretfully, I don't think I can meet your request . . . not for a couple weeks anyway. I do not have G-Max installed and the one thing my new High-end laptop won't do is save a video file (I really need to get it looked at). I made them all in milkshape. I can give you a few general hints. Make a cube, than make each of the six sides a separate group. Then, when you apply a separate texture to each, use the map from top, bottom, right side, etc. command depending on which side you are on. If your texture seems backwards or rotated, rotate the mapping about the center. What I would recommend is picking one of the cubes I provided, and re-assign the textures to new ones. That is all that I did to make the 21 or so backgrounds. I made one, and then copied it as another file and chose different textures. If you want to make your own textures, you could use the ones I provided as a template. They should be pretty consistently numbered.
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Offline ShadowDiver

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Re: Assets/Models/Space....
« Reply #30 on: April 29, 2011, 10:05:44 pm »
Humm..

That's what you get for not checking..... :knuppel2:

They never uploaded...but here it is....
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Offline atheorhaven

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Re: Assets/Models/Space....
« Reply #31 on: April 30, 2011, 12:42:51 am »
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Re: Assets/Models/Space....
« Reply #32 on: April 30, 2011, 11:47:44 am »
Why oh why didn't Abrams use that one? There is no way that going through the entire design process with industry professionals would have been cheaper than buying or paying royalties for that one. Too, it would have been a good publicity angle to use a fan design. Must have been a union thing.
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Offline ShadowDiver

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Re: Assets/Models/Space....
« Reply #33 on: April 30, 2011, 08:15:42 pm »
that is a very cool looking ship.....

Umm...now for my Chris Jones question.. hehehe

who is  Gabe Koerner?...sorry..
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Offline Starfox1701

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Re: Assets/Models/Space....
« Reply #34 on: April 30, 2011, 08:56:11 pm »
He is a profesional CGI artist and Scifi fan. He used to work for Zoic and was one of the guys the did the New BSG first and second season effects. He also had a hand in the mini series effects

Quote
Why oh why didn't Abrams use that one?


This shot from the mini series Sad thing is that Gab lost that model in a HD crash not long ago. He is currently using WileyCoyote's vesion for reference in rebuilding his model
« Last Edit: April 30, 2011, 09:06:49 pm by Starfox1701 »
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Offline ShadowDiver

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Re: Assets/Models/Space....
« Reply #35 on: May 01, 2011, 11:53:57 am »
Shoot...


it is always sad to here of HD crash's...I hope he can redo it.. :-\

anyway, I'm glad to see a lot of people have been viewing my shots, May I ask your opinions?  I notice that skybgnd is getting the most views with skybgnd-mono in a very close second place...

is there any particular reason? I know most of you realize that by changing the name any shot can be relocated to anywhere..
do y'all think I should just name them like 1-2-3-4...? and let you decide? or is it pattern? color?

any help will be highly valued..

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Offline Starfox1701

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Re: Assets/Models/Space....
« Reply #36 on: May 03, 2011, 10:43:16 pm »
How would you go about doing a point light sorce like a near by star?
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Offline ShadowDiver

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Re: Assets/Models/Space....
« Reply #37 on: May 05, 2011, 10:23:29 pm »
That is a very very good question... and I have yet to figure it out!

but since you posted it here and I know a lot of modelers look at this, I'm sure we'll get an answer...

Thanks for asking it!
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Offline FoaS_XC

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Re: Assets/Models/Space....
« Reply #38 on: May 05, 2011, 10:25:11 pm »
Actual light sources are not possible through pure modelling/texturing - past that? I have no idea - it could be a scripting thing that can be done or its all hardcoded.
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Robinomicon
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Offline Starfox1701

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Re: Assets/Models/Space....
« Reply #39 on: May 06, 2011, 12:54:41 am »
Hum that makes me wonder is the guys that did the A1 backgrounds photoshop in real stars?
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Offline FoaS_XC

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    • Robinomicon
Re: Assets/Models/Space....
« Reply #40 on: May 06, 2011, 01:45:44 am »
A1? as in Armada I?
using celestial photos isn't uncommon - taldren did it for SFC.
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Robinomicon
"When I was 5 years old, my mom always told me that happiness was the key to life. When I went to school, they asked me what I wanted to be when I grew up. I wrote down “happy.” They told me I didn’t understand the assignment and I told them they didn’t understand life."
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