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Topic: SFB rules for calculating BVP  (Read 6626 times)

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Offline ShadowDiver

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SFB rules for calculating BVP
« on: April 12, 2011, 10:11:45 pm »
Does anyone have a copy or can copy the BVP calcuator from the back of the rule book and email it to me ??
I also need the points system for the calculator...I trying to make an excel sheet to balance the ships to correct BVP..


Thanks.
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Offline FoaS_XC

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Re: SFB rules for calculating BVP
« Reply #1 on: April 13, 2011, 02:40:13 am »
Check out Smileylich.com - he's got some interesting ideas on BPV calculating :)
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Offline TAnimaL

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Re: SFB rules for calculating BVP
« Reply #2 on: April 13, 2011, 12:57:35 pm »
sent you a email Shadow...
I'm preuming you mean the the full Annex 6A from Volume 3, before the ship modification was "revised" (read: eliminated) in later versions of SFB.
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Offline ShadowDiver

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Re: SFB rules for calculating BVP
« Reply #3 on: April 13, 2011, 11:07:04 pm »
yes....

thank you...

hehe.....on a side note, I received an interesting email from Mr. Stephen V Cole today....

He states that TFG nor ADB has ever published any such information in any rulebook ever... citing that its a company secret on how they do that...  lmao... :laugh:
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Offline FoaS_XC

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Re: SFB rules for calculating BVP
« Reply #4 on: April 13, 2011, 11:08:40 pm »
I didn't think he stopped by in here at all. Cool :).
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Offline marstone

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Re: SFB rules for calculating BVP
« Reply #5 on: April 14, 2011, 03:58:25 am »
Actually he is correct. They use a sliding scale plus other modifiers to get the BPV of a ship.

The chart published just gives a method to compare changes while doing limited modifications. If you use that chart and try and figure out the BPV of a ship it will come out different from what is the published BPV.
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Offline Czar Mohab

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Re: SFB rules for calculating BVP
« Reply #6 on: April 14, 2011, 05:11:00 am »
Quote from: FoaS_XC on April 13, 2011, 11:08:40 pm
I didn't think he stopped by in here at all. Cool :).

Wish he'd post from time to time. Not like we bite or anything...

Do we?

On track: I was thinking to use annex#8 (the one in C4 comes readily to mind). That should get you close to where you need to go.

Ultimately, its a complex equation with an unknown (to us) number of variables; and i don't mean complex as difficult - rather, something with x's and y's and such.

Since I do like math, and barring any "don't do that" emails, it might be worth an hour or so to try to crack the code... if for no other reason than to try it. It sounds like fun.
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Offline marstone

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Re: SFB rules for calculating BVP
« Reply #7 on: April 14, 2011, 05:25:23 am »
It also includes a fudge factor that takes playtesting in to account and bump values up or down based on that IIRC.
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Offline TAnimaL

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Re: SFB rules for calculating BVP
« Reply #8 on: April 14, 2011, 10:31:12 am »
yeah, that the  "BPV formula is ultra top secret" has been mentioned time and time again throughout SFB history. Of course, with so many ships out there to compare against, a few minutes with a Master Ship Chart and a calculator could get at least get you in the ballpark. I've always thoought there should be a footnote to published BPVs, "your mileage may vary." :)

I'd bet too that SVC doesn't come by here too often, since he says he's never played any of these games, but when you start a thread  with the words "SFB rules" and "caculating BPV," that'll catch someone at ADB's attention.

This thread has lead me to a (SFC) game question:
The annex I mentioned above has a list of different ships systems individual BPVs for SFB SSDs, like a APR costs 2, or a Impulse Engine is 3. It has the costs for each weapon and how much they are modified by arcs. Say, a Ph-1 costs 2 pts for a FA (120 degree)arc, and if it's increased to a 180 degree arc, that adds 25%, so it costs 2.5 pts. In SFC:EAW and OP, if you open up the shiplist in Excel, column "FY" has an entry for "weapons BPV" that very closely matches the values from this annex. (Although as to why the shiplist's weapons BPV is calculated to 6 decimal points, I have no clue.) So, my question is;

does the program utilize these number in game balance (i.e. a multiplayer script) or in assigning damage to/from? Whenever I've modified a ship using ShipEdit, that number refelects any weapons changes I've made. Example - I took a R-ROC and modified it into a "Battlestar," changing phaser arrangements and torpedo types, and the the weapons BPV number increased. Did ShipEdit do that or did the game engine?

Wait, that's two questions. Damn.

Anyways, I was curious about that entry on the shiplist, especially since it so closely matches the established SFB costs of weapons, and wondered if anyone else has any info on it.
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Offline 762_XC

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Re: SFB rules for calculating BVP
« Reply #9 on: April 14, 2011, 10:47:03 pm »
SVC has posted before, both here and on Taldren. I think he's still holding out for a Mac version of SFC.
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Offline Czar Mohab

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Re: SFB rules for calculating BVP
« Reply #10 on: April 15, 2011, 02:28:03 am »
Quote from: 762_XC on April 14, 2011, 10:47:03 pm
SVC has posted before, both here and on Taldren. I think he's still holding out for a Mac version of SFC.

1.) Dev team, get on this. :D J/K
2.) There's a freeware virtual machine that likes Mac's, likes running XP on a Mac, and is capable of playing OP; i forget the name though... Possibly Virtual Machine, but its been a while.
3.) Before is not current enough for me :P , but I understand. He's too busy to spend time posting on forums. He's an Empire to run, after all. :smitten:
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Offline ShadowDiver

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Re: SFB rules for calculating BVP
« Reply #11 on: April 19, 2011, 03:01:41 am »
Quote from: TAnimaL on April 14, 2011, 10:31:12 am
yeah, that the  "BPV formula is ultra top secret" has been mentioned time and time again throughout SFB history. Of course, with so many ships out there to compare against, a few minutes with a Master Ship Chart and a calculator could get at least get you in the ballpark. I've always thoought there should be a footnote to published BPVs, "your mileage may vary." :)

I'd bet too that SVC doesn't come by here too often, since he says he's never played any of these games, but when you start a thread  with the words "SFB rules" and "caculating BPV," that'll catch someone at ADB's attention.

This thread has lead me to a (SFC) game question:
The annex I mentioned above has a list of different ships systems individual BPVs for SFB SSDs, like a APR costs 2, or a Impulse Engine is 3. It has the costs for each weapon and how much they are modified by arcs. Say, a Ph-1 costs 2 pts for a FA (120 degree)arc, and if it's increased to a 180 degree arc, that adds 25%, so it costs 2.5 pts. In SFC:EAW and OP, if you open up the shiplist in Excel, column "FY" has an entry for "weapons BPV" that very closely matches the values from this annex. (Although as to why the shiplist's weapons BPV is calculated to 6 decimal points, I have no clue.) So, my question is;

does the program utilize these number in game balance (i.e. a multiplayer script) or in assigning damage to/from? Whenever I've modified a ship using ShipEdit, that number refelects any weapons changes I've made. Example - I took a R-ROC and modified it into a "Battlestar," changing phaser arrangements and torpedo types, and the the weapons BPV number increased. Did ShipEdit do that or did the game engine?

Wait, that's two questions. Damn.

Anyways, I was curious about that entry on the shiplist, especially since it so closely matches the established SFB costs of weapons, and wondered if anyone else has any info on it.

TAnimal....

That shiplist question is exactly why I'm trying to do this in excel...I have yet to try ship edit but I would like to do the formulas in excel to see how they work...

My major problem is I no longer have any SFB source materials...that's why I was asking in the first place....
also you would think, with all these guys (read as---Brain power) someone by now would have cracked the code....Someone created ship edit and it changes, modify, restores and creates new bvp's all the time...so someone is holding out.. :)

I was also told by a very reliable source...that it's in the source code....but I don't have it nor can I read any type of code as it is..
so I can't confirm/deny it..

now if someone has an excel file already done........may I please have a copy of it?  :angel:
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Offline 762_XC

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Re: SFB rules for calculating BVP
« Reply #12 on: April 19, 2011, 03:41:23 am »
Give him a call then, Czar. His number is on the SFC CD. :P
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Offline TAnimaL

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Re: SFB rules for calculating BVP
« Reply #13 on: April 20, 2011, 02:04:01 pm »
I'm gonna go out on a limb here, because I don't know know, but I'll bet the "formula" is not in the code, nor would SVC "give up" the formula. Whatever might be "in game" (or in ShipEdit) is just a close approximation, but really, isn't that enough? From a SFB standpoint, between all the existing ships and Annex 6, you could probably come up with a BPV that is within a few points of "real" for any ships that you create or modify. Personally, having played a couple of hundred SFB games, (and probably thousands of SFC games), I feel that the BPV only says so much about a ship, not all.

To reuse my joke, your mileage may vary.

I've never learned Excel enough to do it myself, but a subtotal formula that computes the columns shouldn't be too hard...

I have most of SFB from the Designer's Edition thru Commander's Edition, and some copies of Captain's edition/post-Doomsday stuff. Shoot me any wquestions you have.
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Offline ShadowDiver

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Re: SFB rules for calculating BVP
« Reply #14 on: April 20, 2011, 02:30:00 pm »
k..thx

 :smitten:
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