Topic: WARNING!!! Microsoft Sabotaging WinXP?  (Read 7735 times)

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Offline Nemesis

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Re: WARNING!!! Microsoft Sabotaging WinXP?
« Reply #20 on: November 14, 2010, 12:24:29 pm »
Nemesis, Nemesis...Nemesis.....Whew...you must be an attorney :) (i tip my hat to you)


No need to be nasty, I dislike lawyers as a class as much as the next guy.  I have no legal training at all.  I have however observed a lot of legal issues in multiple countries in respect to the computer industry over a long period of time.  Groklaw has been an excellent source in regard to U.S. cases.

(imho) I don't think the antitrust suit scares them a bit...keyword here is (again) It has happen before, it will happen again.. we as  a consumer just don't know when these things will happen, it's all just speculation to us.. but we do have time and experience on our side to know when a good deal is (not so good), Now I'm not a coder like SCM_SFHQ_XC, but I was told that older OS's like 98SE and 2000 are written without a certain code for tracking purposes..which make them a GREAT OS for hackers...I don't know.. that's just what I was told..


Antitrust terrifies them. 

They came within a hairs breath of breakup last time in the U.S..  If Al Gore had won the Presidential election I believe they would have been.  ( :police: DON'T take that as an excuse ANYONE to start a political discussion here :police:)

In the EU they faced and paid fines in excess of $1 billion USD AND were forced to change their ways and document many of their interfaces for free use by their competitors.    The only reason the fines didn't go higher is the MS caved, the EU wouldn't back down.  IE use has been dropping for a long time but the Antitrust decisions in the EU has accelerated it there. 

As far as the Google acquisition..we all saw this coming..and MS has been trying to buy the entire market since IBM and TI fell under there umbrella..why fight your competitors when you can own them? that also has been going on throughout our entire history. empires have been made and civilizations have crumbled under that kind of power. look at it this way..what if..(warren buffet, bill gates and Jay-z formed a union) now that would be crazy power to say the least.


What Google acquisition?  No way that would pass antitrust law. 

Microsoft has been pushing (a matter of public record) against Google to the DOJ in regards to Googles dominance of the online search and advertising market.  I don't think they will be successful in any legal way due to the fact I haven't seen evidence of Google using that monopoly to block competitors or extend their monopoly to other products/fields. 

98 thru XP might be ancient, but that does not mean anything in usefulness..come on.. everyone is complaining about vista this and 7 that so much it's killing me..Trust me I understand better than most, that if you don't make something new you run the risk of losing it all.
coders need work, programmers need work. etc etc etc..
but here is an example ( I have XP and I'm running office XP...soon they released Office03, ok no problem I upgrade then....pop.. out comes vista..opps Office03 does'nt work on vista only Office07...now I have to import all my 03 doc's to 07...any new 07 doc's won't work in my XP machins using 03..now there's 7 with Office10...don't forget nothing works in 64bit..


Just because it is useful does not require Microsoft to continue supporting it.  The same for any other software. 

MS has had there security cracked before..it was on TV, something about there firewall was shut down for a couple of days..


They have but not to the degree that would be required to insert a "bug" into their Windows upgrade repositories without them noticing.  That would be too big an issue and high lights the whole "Windows Monoculture" issue.

The motherboard issue....code is code right...all 11001001000111010 there doing something to the boards, I just don't know what.


Many of the features that newer motherboards have don't have support within older OSs.  Also how many people are going to buy a mother board that supports multicore chips to run Win98 (single core inherently) on it?  Would you want to write the code to support SATA and USB 3 under Win98?  Then there are issues with newer CPUs that are faster than the older software was designed for.  (As an example one AMD CPU ran certain Windows code too fast above 300mhz and MS had to patch it, it fouled timing loops). 

Unless Microsoft can be shown to have "influenced them" to not support older OSs there is no case for blaming them.  If such evidence were to be found then they should be nailed for it. 

There have been memos from Microsoft indicating that they SHOULD try to make power management only compatible with Windows as they felt their efforts shouldn't benefit their competitors (and ignored the fact that they were not the only company involved and the other companies had rights too).  I think that should be investigated to see if MS managed to do something as the memo indicated.
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Offline Dash Jones

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Re: WARNING!!! Microsoft Sabotaging WinXP?
« Reply #21 on: November 14, 2010, 12:27:49 pm »
I have a Dell laptop that runs XP Pro and every time I update windows it has serious issues with any .NET update.  I've had to reformat/reload once because of it.  What I have found is that if I install patches in order from lowest to highest, IE 1.0 --> 4.0, then I don't have any problems.  However when I let windows update install them in the order they are downloaded then I have problems, not booting right etc.  It's weird, and I don't have any explanation for it but that's what works for me.

I haven't seen anything like this since Windows Live Mail not starting up more than once per reboot or unless I go into Task Manager and kill the Live Mail processes.  This issue started ever since I put separate accounts on the machine for the kids.  Strange as he|| but at least I know how to get around it.

that actually sounds EXACTLY like what happened.  I've done what you did and it seems to be working now...so it probably is the entire order of installation.  It must mean something is wonked with windows update.
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Offline ShadowDiver

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Re: WARNING!!! Microsoft Sabotaging WinXP?
« Reply #22 on: November 14, 2010, 01:00:53 pm »
OK..ok..ok...

you win.....I capitulate to your awesomeness....and knowledge.... :notworthy: :notworthy: :notworthy:

Offline FCM_SFHQ_XC

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Re: WARNING!!! Microsoft Sabotaging WinXP?
« Reply #23 on: November 14, 2010, 01:10:24 pm »

Technically speaking though the newer OSes deserve a bashing for failing to consider legacy games and support.
When it comes to this I blame it on Bethesda if you are talking about Star Trek Legacy not MS.I haven't had any issues updating XP and I do dl all the .Net frameworks.It works fine on 2 pcs for me and I have my 7 drive.

When reinstalling do you reinstall java and adobe flash as well as an AV?They wouldn't sabotage their own OS as the last of our 98s got all the updates untill support was stopped.This is at the office.

No not ST Legacy, just legacy games and support in general, legacy being defined as all the old stuff. They did fail to consider that there are still some of those programs and games from the 90s and earlier that weren't exactly written in todays standard of coding and that people still need to be able to run those programs/games in conjunction with newer technology that might only be able to run on Windows 7 due to the functions called in the newer program. They just kinda assumed that there would be a newer or better version of the program that Windows 7 could run instead of realizing that there is only 1 version they could use which now they cant thanks to them not considering this legacy program.

I have a Dell laptop that runs XP Pro and every time I update windows it has serious issues with any .NET update.  I've had to reformat/reload once because of it.  What I have found is that if I install patches in order from lowest to highest, IE 1.0 --> 4.0, then I don't have any problems.  However when I let windows update install them in the order they are downloaded then I have problems, not booting right etc.  It's weird, and I don't have any explanation for it but that's what works for me.

I haven't seen anything like this since Windows Live Mail not starting up more than once per reboot or unless I go into Task Manager and kill the Live Mail processes.  This issue started ever since I put separate accounts on the machine for the kids.  Strange as he|| but at least I know how to get around it.

that actually sounds EXACTLY like what happened.  I've done what you did and it seems to be working now...so it probably is the entire order of installation.  It must mean something is wonked with windows update.

WIndows update I could see being out of wack if something happens, given that pretty much all of the needed updates for Windows XP are released, at this point it would just be easier to download all the redistribiutals from the MS DL center that would have been on Windows update, burn them all to a CD or in the case of SP2/3 slipstream it into the Windows XP disk so there would be no need to even touch Windows update ever again. They never really made that windows update work very well, so that is a fail for MS though I dont think it would be intentional in any way, as Nemesis said above that would be a little stupid of MS.
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Offline marstone

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Re: WARNING!!! Microsoft Sabotaging WinXP?
« Reply #24 on: November 14, 2010, 02:11:20 pm »
While I understand the point of supporting legacy code I know it can't be done fully and a cut off has to be put in.

If not the code of new OSs will be so full of bloat and points for errors to be fully unmanageable.  You can't write an OS that handles the same request for services in two many ways.  You have to build in a cut off point or you can't add new features because it breaks old code.

Case in point was paged memory for the clone machines.  It was the only way to get the extra memory on the 8 bit bus.  But in order to not break old code this crap system of memory was used even after the CPU's were able to directly access the memory above 640k.  Then you added the endian problem to data when you started to go to the 32bit addressing (could have had some at the 16 bit addresses).

So even tho I want old games to run, I am fine with new OSs cutting off the legacy support at a specific ponit.
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Offline Age

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Re: WARNING!!! Microsoft Sabotaging WinXP?
« Reply #25 on: November 14, 2010, 06:42:23 pm »

Technically speaking though the newer OSes deserve a bashing for failing to consider legacy games and support.
When it comes to this I blame it on Bethesda if you are talking about Star Trek Legacy not MS.I haven't had any issues updating XP and I do dl all the .Net frameworks.It works fine on 2 pcs for me and I have my 7 drive.

When reinstalling do you reinstall java and adobe flash as well as an AV?They wouldn't sabotage their own OS as the last of our 98s got all the updates untill support was stopped.This is at the office.

No not ST Legacy, just legacy games and support in general, legacy being defined as all the old stuff. They did fail to consider that there are still some of those programs and games from the 90s and earlier that weren't exactly written in todays standard of coding and that people still need to be able to run those programs/games in conjunction with newer technology that might only be able to run on Windows 7 due to the functions called in the newer program. They just kinda assumed that there would be a newer or better version of the program that Windows 7 could run instead of realizing that there is only 1 version they could use which now they cant thanks to them not considering this legacy program.
I would tend to think this is up to the developers or publishers of who made the games or older software.I agree with what Nemesis is saying about all this.


Offline Javora

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Re: WARNING!!! Microsoft Sabotaging WinXP?
« Reply #26 on: November 18, 2010, 08:18:03 am »
that actually sounds EXACTLY like what happened.  I've done what you did and it seems to be working now...so it probably is the entire order of installation.  It must mean something is wonked with windows update.

Glad that helped.  If you ever think about it and have the time, try to document the issue.  I'm trying to narrow it down but haven't had much luck.  Thanks.