Topic: Spider Silkworms?

[Nemesis]

Link to full article

Scientists have created a genetically modified silkworm that spins a new kind of silk: a hybrid of silkworm silk and spider silk.

The new material alone could shake up the textile industry, while future silk hybrids could be used in everything from bulletproof clothing to artificial tendons.

"Compared to normal spider silk, it's not as strong," said Malcolm Fraser, a scientist from the University of Notre Dame. "But we are confident that, this being our first attempt, that we will be able to tweak the system to bring the system closer to the strength of true spider silk."

In this work the Notre Dame and University of Wyoming scientists replaced only one of multiple silk-producing genes in silkworms with spider silk genes. Eventually they want to replace multiple silkworm silk-producing genes with spider silk genes.

In particular, they hope to insert genes from the newly discovered Darwin's Bark Spider (Caerostris darwini), which produced silk twice as strong as any other. That's more than 10 times stronger than Kevlar, a fabric commonly found in bulletproof vests.

What environmental factors degrade spider silk?  Just curious as to what conditions it couldn't be used in. 

[knightstorm]

I'm surprised they didn't think of this sooner.  Rather than the fiasco with the spider goats.

[marstone]

I'm surprised they didn't think of this sooner.  Rather than the fiasco with the spider goats.

Well, they did.  I remember reading about it back in the '80's.  They were looking at using the silk for flak vests in the military as it is stronger then steel the same diameter.  It then faded away, 'til now.

[Bonk]

Problem is that it is a protein is it not? It degrades? If it could be preserved we're talking super-bridges (bering, english, china sea... hehe) and real space elevators.

Ah, I see it is not true spider silk but still a hybrid. Get us pure spider silk and a way to preserve it and then we are talking serious engineering. 

[marstone]

Problem is that it is a protein is it not? It degrades? If it could be preserved we're talking super-bridges (bering, english, china sea... hehe) and real space elevators.

Ah, I see it is not true spider silk but still a hybrid. Get us pure spider silk and a way to preserve it and then we are talking serious engineering. 

true, but imbed it in a coating (like fiberglass, or carbon fiber are) and it might be better then anything we have so far.

[knightstorm]

I'm surprised they didn't think of this sooner.  Rather than the fiasco with the spider goats.

Well, they did.  I remember reading about it back in the '80's.  They were looking at using the silk for flak vests in the military as it is stronger then steel the same diameter.  It then faded away, 'til now.

What I meant was that there was a previous attempt to produce artificial spider silk using transgenic goats which produced spider silk protein in their milk.  The protein could be filtered out of the milk, and spun into a thread, but it was found that artificial means of spinning the web were less effective than the spider's spinnerets, and the resulting web was significantly weaker.  Using silkworms to produce the web instead seems like a more sensible solution.

[Nemesis]

First use:  Women's stockings that don't run (and make great emergency fan belts).

[marstone]

I'm surprised they didn't think of this sooner.  Rather than the fiasco with the spider goats.

Well, they did.  I remember reading about it back in the '80's.  They were looking at using the silk for flak vests in the military as it is stronger then steel the same diameter.  It then faded away, 'til now.

What I meant was that there was a previous attempt to produce artificial spider silk using transgenic goats which produced spider silk protein in their milk.  The protein could be filtered out of the milk, and spun into a thread, but it was found that artificial means of spinning the web were less effective than the spider's spinnerets, and the resulting web was significantly weaker.  Using silkworms to produce the web instead seems like a more sensible solution.

Yeah, remember the spider silk milk thing.  But what I was talking about was back in the '80's they were looking at crossing a spider and silk worm so they could make the spidersilk that would be easier to process.  But then not a word on it until now.  So glad it is coming out.

[Bonk]

First use:  Women's stockings that don't run (and make great emergency fan belts).

   So true. Excellent thinking.

And here I was thinking stuff like flywheels...

I wonder if spiders could be trained/bred to manufacture material, instead of engineering worms. Might not be so crazy...

[Nemesis]

Actually I was sort of half asleep this morning and thinking of this and imagined an engineered spider that would constantly spin a "drop line" while the other end was spooled in at a variable rate to match the spinning of the spider.  Nutrients dripped down the drop line to feed the spider.  Computer monitoring to keep the two rates synchronized and a method of collecting the eggs (or a "queen spider" for spawning purposes).

There are a great many potential uses. 

Fishing line that is really thin.  Parachutes.  Skins for gliders and other aircraft.  Really light weight canoes (that don't dent like the light aluminum jobs).  Clothing that lasts and lasts (military and factory uniforms) where fashion isn't an issue.  Tents (military and hobby).

Composite materials (like the current carbon composites).

Is it an insulator or conductor?  Potential uses for either.

Thin and strong?  Can it be used to cut things? 

Just a few thoughts.

[Bonk]

I would think that any significant electrical current would be a problem.

[Nemesis]

I would think that any significant electrical current would be a problem.

I seem to recall the classic Benjamin Franklin kite experiment using a silk string for the kite.  Admittedly it would have been wet which does change things.  I'd think lightning would be a lot of current.  (Of course I could be wrong about this).

This also leads to thoughts like "doping" the thread/material to give it additional or changed properties.