Topic: FYI: work in progress: OP+ 4.1

[762_XC]

And FireSoul dialed it back after I asked him to, Corb got temp-banned, and Dizzy's wasn't a flame at all (he attacked your argument, which is exactly what he is supposed to do).

Now I'm talking to you. When I say "keep it civil", I don't mean this:

Your god complex is showing.

stop being stubborn.

Hmmm, a superiority complex mixed with total ignorance, lack of respect for others

This sounds a lot like firesoul.

Good riddance to bad rubbish.

[LordSaxon]

. I'm gonna start calling you Captain Obvious, LS.

It's obvious to me we need someone to develop a shiplist based on computer gameplay, not SFB. No one gives a crap anymore (that still actually plays this game with others online) if the SDS says 99% of the pirates don't have a probe. For in-game play thats pretty dumb. We could also use the deletion of about 40% of the ships on the list for online play. I have to scroll for 3 minutes past useless crap just to find my C7.

[Dizzy]

. I'm gonna start calling you Captain Obvious, LS.

It's obvious to me we need someone to develop a shiplist based on computer gameplay, not SFB. No one gives a crap anymore (that still actually plays this game with others online) if the SDS says 99% of the pirates don't have a probe. For in-game play thats pretty dumb. We could also use the deletion of about 40% of the ships on the list for online play. I have to scroll for 3 minutes past useless crap just to find my C7.

I agree. That is what FS is doing, but afaik, Bonk just throws OPPlus4.0 unto a server w/o modification. That doesnt work for campaign games. Slave Girl lists take those 40% of the sucky ships out so your allies in mission arnt scouts and commando ships and sublights.

Also, I dont understand FS's statement where Pirates need to lose a weapon in order to add a probe. Probes in SFC are gameplay aids to find ships beyond 100k. They aid in tactical info and are sometimes used as a very lousy close range weapon... I dont see why giving every pirate 5 probes would be so bad and require them to lose weapons.

For ship purchasing, I think we are movong away from ships listed in the yards to ships that are listed online via the OCI (Online Campaign Interface) where they would be made available immediately and instantly for purchase. In addition we have already enabled one account usage where you can change your race to any allied race and purchase any ship to use for them, thus maximising your prestige bank without restriction.  (Insert tactical deceptive play) where your name and color on the campaign map is green as romulan but you are flying a Klink ship.

EDIT: If you are scrolling thru the OCI already for a C7 and it takes 3 minutes, then the OCI isnt optimized properly. Your characters race, prestige, stats, ship, stores, location and everything else should be laid out plainly and a list by ship class should enable instant and immediate ship purchase. Havent seen the OCI in a long while so I dont know what eaxtly you are complaining about.

[KBF-Crim]

Pretty sure he means the stock in game ship selection screens for PvP on game ranger...not the OCI used for the DV...

[Dizzy]

oh, yeah... well, be nice if there was a tag line description for ships that could be implemented into the interface such that certain type ships would be able to be filtered out. Kindalike how khoromags fleeat attack whatnot script is like. Whats name of that one?

[FireSoul]

sorry for being quiet: been extremely busy at work. Just did a 16 hour and 10 hour days, just these last 2 days.

Bottom line, looks like most things have been answered for themselves.


Re. pirates and probes:

Many of the pirate ships in stock SFC-OP are artwork. .. and I don't mean that in a good way: they are put together by someone who thought it'd be 'cool' to have them do stuff they really aren't even designed to do. The BPVs are wrong. Many weapon loadouts, and arcs,  are simply.. impossible.

It peeves me. So I decided to do something about it and did a total reboot.



I tossed out almost everything that is a recognizable SFB fighting ship, and recreated it. I have done this by entering a template ship, and then generating ships for all races from this template.
See: http://klingon.pet.dhs.org/mediawiki/index.php?title=OP%2B_Contents_and_Changes#Orion_Pirates:_TOTAL_REBOOT

It turns out that very very few of them have a probe launcher on their ships. That's why there's none in OP+ 4.1 . All galactic races tend to equip their shis for science, but the pirates... well. It looks like they do not.



THAT SAID!
Probe launchers are available in one of the weapon option mounts. This is how the ship's generation works: by populating these 'mounts' with weapons, or even some systems.
ie: tractors, transporter, APR, .. probe launchers.

Therefore, to have a probe launcher, an option mount has to be used. That means having 1 less option mount available for weaponry.

[FireSoul]

oh, yeah... well, be nice if there was a tag line description for ships that could be implemented into the interface such that certain type ships would be able to be filtered out. Kindalike how khoromags fleeat attack whatnot script is like. Whats name of that one?

You should load 4.0 or 4.1 into excel/openoffice and check out the last 5 columns to the far right. I added those back in 4.0. No one uses those, except for me: coopace 4.0, bfests+, etc.
Really! Do it right now.

You can use that data to make a quick sub-shiplist in no time. You can also use the modified shiplist api, available on my site for years now, to use those columns to generate interesting missions.
ie:
- a mission with just ships of the line? no problem.
- you want to see a carrier group? a carrier and 2 smaller escorts? no problem.
- you want to see a hunter pack? ie: a D5L and 2 normal warship D5s? .. but for any race, and autogenerated without any hardcoded ships in the mission? no problem.

.. For you, you can use that data to filter out the commando ships in seconds., remove those scout ships in no time, and toss out those pesky tugs too. It's real damn easy now. I made sure that data's accurate.

[Dizzy]

oh, yeah... well, be nice if there was a tag line description for ships that could be implemented into the interface such that certain type ships would be able to be filtered out. Kindalike how khoromags fleeat attack whatnot script is like. Whats name of that one?

 you can use that data to filter out the commando ships in seconds., remove those scout ships in no time, and toss out those pesky tugs too. It's real damn easy now. I made sure that data's accurate.

Well I hope we can do up a script with ED or someone that can take advantage of that feature. Nice feature, FS! That might actually make using the STOCK list in a slavegirls mod possible... If every script had a call for the types of ships in mission... then wow. We could have monitors and tugs only for a shipyard defense script... commando onlly type ships for a capture mission... these type missions wernt ever possible on D2 because all those kinda ships were taken out of the list. Mission variety is one way to ease the monotony of doing missions on the D2... and maybe we can use this in the future.

[FireSoul]

oh, yeah... well, be nice if there was a tag line description for ships that could be implemented into the interface such that certain type ships would be able to be filtered out. Kindalike how khoromags fleeat attack whatnot script is like. Whats name of that one?

 you can use that data to filter out the commando ships in seconds., remove those scout ships in no time, and toss out those pesky tugs too. It's real damn easy now. I made sure that data's accurate.

Well I hope we can do up a script with ED or someone that can take advantage of that feature. Nice feature, FS! That might actually make using the STOCK list in a slavegirls mod possible... If every script had a call for the types of ships in mission... then wow. We could have monitors and tugs only for a shipyard defense script... commando onlly type ships for a capture mission... these type missions wernt ever possible on D2 because all those kinda ships were taken out of the list. Mission variety is one way to ease the monotony of doing missions on the D2... and maybe we can use this in the future.

yes, missions can be made to do just that. You just need a volunteer to spend the time to make it.
Ever clicked on the 'enhanced shiplist options' of the coopace 4.0 customizer?

big image: http://pet.dhs.org/~firesoul/sfc2/coopace/coopace40/coopace_40_wip4.jpg

-- FS

[FireSoul]

sample, edited code: "I want an armed freighter: auxiliary warship, carrier or PFT tender"

In this enhanced shiplist code tidbit:
- a quick test to see if it's actually an enhanced shiplist that the modified shiplist API loaded.
- an initial filter is done based on a given race
- ships with SPECIAL is filtered out.
- class type filter: narrow it down further using the enhanced shiplist code. Filter based on auxiliary class
- role type filter: we want that auxiliary to be a warship, pftender or carrier.

neat huh? This is a modified/simplified tidbit on something I did to make a better Convoy Escort mission. This is part of the qship code, mostly in case a qship failed to be picked. I modified NW's version of convoy escort mission.

Code: [Select]

if (gST.narrowed_sl.mIsEnhancedShiplist()) {

int32 fShiplistCount = 0;
ShipList aux_sl = gST.narrowed_sl;

tTeamInfo* freighterTeam = fMissionInfo->mGetTeamHandle( static_cast<eTeamID>( kFreighterTeam ) );
eRaceName freighterRace = freighterTeam->mGetRace();

std::list< eRace >  raceList;
raceList.push_back(freighterRace);
fShiplistCount = aux_sl.Subset(raceList);
gST.mDebug_fprintf("subset for race (%d) filter completed. ships: %d\n", freighterRace, fShiplistCount);

// Strip out ships with SPECIAL
std::list< eClassTypes >  classTypeList;
classTypeList.push_back(kClassSpecial);
fShiplistCount = aux_sl.Subset(classTypeList, false);
gST.mDebug_fprintf("subset for eClassTypes (no SPECIAL) completed. ships: %d\n", fShiplistCount);

fShiplistCount = aux_sl.Subset(auxClassTypeList, true);
std::list< eEnhancedClassTypes >  auxClassTypeList_take2;
auxClassTypeList_take2.push_back(kEClassSmallAuxiliary);
auxClassTypeList_take2.push_back(kEClassLargeAuxiliary);
fShiplistCount = aux_sl.Subset(auxClassTypeList_take2, true);
gST.mDebug_fprintf("subset for auxiliary filter completed. ships: %d\n", fShiplistCount);

// aux classes: warship, carrier, PFT
std::list< eEnhancedRoles >  auxRolesList;
auxRolesList.push_back(kWarShip);
auxRolesList.push_back(kCarrier);
auxRolesList.push_back(kPFTender);
fShiplistCount = aux_sl.Subset(auxRolesList, true);
gST.mDebug_fprintf("subset for auxiliary eEnhancedRoles completed. ships: %d\n", fShiplistCount);
}


[FireSoul]

Here's another good one: I want just the new Andros, sifting them out from the other Monsters. (from new Andros! mission included in 4.1)

Code: [Select]

                // Andros are CustomRace1
                std::list< eEnhancedRoles >  androRolesList;
                androRolesList.push_back(kRoleCustomRace1);
                fShiplistCount = narrowed_sl.Subset(androRolesList, true);
                mDebug_fprintf("subset for andro list completed. ships: %d\n", fShiplistCount);


[Dizzy]

Man that is exactly what Im talking about! Very cool stuff. An OCI shipyard could also break down ships according to the hull class making choosing a ship a breeze. Now that is the kinda of mission interface we need for a GSA 6 position start. The mission would allow the host to be able to toggle what ships his entire game lobby would be able to choose from.

The standard Free for all GSA script everyone uses could be the template and just add this filtering thingy and then maybe adjust the starting positions so everyone is 10k distance further away than stock. Always ben annoying how close you start in a game.

Wonder if ED could whip something like that up?

[FireSoul]

Man that is exactly what Im talking about! Very cool stuff. An OCI shipyard could also break down ships according to the hull class making choosing a ship a breeze. Now that is the kinda of mission interface we need for a GSA 6 position start. The mission would allow the host to be able to toggle what ships his entire game lobby would be able to choose from.

The standard Free for all GSA script everyone uses could be the template and just add this filtering thingy and then maybe adjust the starting positions so everyone is 10k distance further away than stock. Always ben annoying how close you start in a game.

Wonder if ED could whip something like that up?

Do you know C++, Dizzy?
You could learn it, maybe?

[Age]

Man that is exactly what Im talking about! Very cool stuff. An OCI shipyard could also break down ships according to the hull class making choosing a ship a breeze. Now that is the kinda of mission interface we need for a GSA 6 position start. The mission would allow the host to be able to toggle what ships his entire game lobby would be able to choose from.

The standard Free for all GSA script everyone uses could be the template and just add this filtering thingy and then maybe adjust the starting positions so everyone is 10k distance further away than stock. Always ben annoying how close you start in a game.

Wonder if ED could whip something like that up?

Do you know C++, Dizzy?
You could learn it, maybe?

I wished I could as well as afford it.

[Klingon Fanatic]

Are the new hard pointed planets going to be put out in the next release candidate or as an individual  download?

[FireSoul]

Are the new hard pointed planets going to be put out in the next release candidate or as an individual  download?

They'll be added. It'll take time to add them: remapping and redoing all the weapons is tedious. I've done the Feds and the Gorns, but then the needs of my job has kept me extremely busy for the last few days. (oncall)

I don't expect another release until a few weeks from now.

[Klingon Fanatic]

Thanks Firesoul.

The fixed planets are going to make the game even better!

Best wishes.

[Age]

I would just make patch for the planets istead of a complete installer.

[FireSoul]

I would just make patch for the planets istead of a complete installer.

I am going to add them right into OP+ and make everyone use them. Far less optional, and far easier for everyone.

[FireSoul]

It's a sweeping fix. What is involved is that the shiplist for all the planets with weapons are redone and then the models themselves will have to be rehardpointed. The hardpoints are currently located anywhere from 5 to 7 range above and below the equator on the physical planet model itself, which obviously causes point defense weapons not to fire because if a ship approaches the equator, the point defense weapons are too far away to fire.

Make note that any weapon that ignores a fire arc should not be used on a planet as firing through the planet mesh occurs and the resulting sound collision from that fire is quite annoying. Below you will see the planet fire arc where HW1 is the front of the ship. HW1 stands for heavy weapon hardpoint 1 and is the 1st heavy weapon column in the shiplist. PH11 stands for the 11th phaser hardpoint and corresponds to the 11th weapon column in the shiplist.

The Yellow arcs should be Ph3 hardpoints which should be present on ALL planets. The Blue are the Ph4's which should be standard on all armed planets. The Red should be heavy weapon hardpoints that should be on all armed planets. The Orange should be optional heavy weapon hardpoints. The rest shaded grey should be only used for homeworlds. Ph1's should not be used on planets as it would give the planet too many defensive phasers.

I do not remember testing to see if a planet can make use of defensive tractors vs drones. I think they do, and I would give all planets 6 and homeworlds 12.

I am fuzzy on the artifex program and do not remember specifically which planets are referred to as colony world, core world and homeworld. If there are other designations artifex uses that the scripts and the map match up, it would be easy to simply use the existing planets as a reference and arm them from the stock taldren template using the fixes I have made.

I have implemented this fully, and as-is.

.. why? Because SFB-style planets are impossible. We can only make a close approximation.
In SFB, planets are not armed. They have ground bases, and these are independant units. Firing at a ground base unit only affects that unit, and not the whole planet  (unlike SFC). There's no sharing of power either between these ground units. (again, unlike SFC).

That leaves me with 2 alternatives: do nothing, or we do our own. .. and this rules are good enough as-is. It's detailed enough that I can programmatically detect problems if there any.

Note: I haven't changed any of the other systems, except for the tractors.
Note2: I haven't released an installer for this. I have more work to do before I am satisfied with some other stuff that needs to be redone. (ie: bad pirates powercurve)


-- FS


Code tidbit for the mount definitions:

Code: [Select]

  # defensive phasers only! 14, 17, 21, 24
  my $all_planets_mounts = {
    66 => { 'mount' => 14, 'arc' => 'RS' },
    75 => { 'mount' => 17, 'arc' => 'RH' },
    87 => { 'mount' => 21, 'arc' => 'LS' },
    96 => { 'mount' => 24, 'arc' => 'FH' },
  };
  # 3, 4, 8, 9 -- 11, 15, 18, 22
  my $armed_world_mounts = {
    33 => { 'mount' => 3, 'arc' => 'FRR' },
    36 => { 'mount' => 4, 'arc' => 'RRR' },
    48 => { 'mount' => 8, 'arc' => 'LLR' },
    51 => { 'mount' => 9, 'arc' => 'FLL' },
    57 => { 'mount' => 11, 'arc' => 'FH' },
    69 => { 'mount' => 15, 'arc' => 'RS' },
    78 => { 'mount' => 18, 'arc' => 'RH' },
    90 => { 'mount' => 22, 'arc' => 'LS' },
  };
  # 1, 2, 5, 6, 7, 10, 12, 13, 16, 19, 20, 23
  my $home_world_mounts = {
    27 => { 'mount' => 1, 'arc' => 'FA' },
    30 => { 'mount' => 2, 'arc' => 'FAR' },
    39 => { 'mount' => 5, 'arc' => 'RAR' },
    42 => { 'mount' => 6, 'arc' => 'RA' },
    45 => { 'mount' => 7, 'arc' => 'RAL' },
    54 => { 'mount' => 10, 'arc' => 'FAL' },
    60 => { 'mount' => 12, 'arc' => 'FAR' },
    63 => { 'mount' => 13, 'arc' => 'RS' },
    72 => { 'mount' => 16, 'arc' => 'RAR' },
    81 => { 'mount' => 19, 'arc' => 'RAL' },
    84 => { 'mount' => 20, 'arc' => 'LS' },
    93 => { 'mount' => 23, 'arc' => 'FAL' },
  };