Topic: FYI: work in progress: OP+ 4.1

[FireSoul]

It's fine. I can look at this too.
Note: I'd rather have you playing.

LOLOLOLOL... I have a copy of R12... I can get a mini shiplist with just the R 12 stuff put together probably by the end of the weekend if you want.

[Shalafi]

hehe alright... do you have a compiled list of known bugs to date by chance?

[FireSoul]

hehe alright... do you have a compiled list of known bugs to date by chance?

Not really. Most of the bugs have been immediately fixed in the current unreleased version which has been completely gutted from pirates (which is why I can't release it till I recreate them).

Please check the OP+ wiki for more info. I always blog/post my progress each day.

http://pet.dhs.org/mediawiki/index.php/OPPLus_Project_Blog
http://pet.dhs.org/mediawiki/index.php/OPPlus_4.1_project_wiki

[Dizzy]

Well, if you're only rehardpointing the planets, then they would only require a .mod without textures. That'd be way less of a D/L. And it'd be quicker, cuz the alternative is to find nice looking planet models and hardpoint those, and it'd be tough to get all the ones we need.

However, you run into a problem with someone swapping out better planet models that are not hardpointed properly. To avoid that, we need to find or make better looking planet models so one wouldnt want to replace them. I tried once before... but the response was a little soft. Course that was just me asking in a non-friendly models forum... At the time I'm sure I was posting about excessive model polys or something... So with your and FOAS's backing, mb it could get done?

[FireSoul]

Let's start with getting it working, and then we can move on to making it pretty after. I may be including the models and textures both, in their entirety, and call this what it is: a BUGFIX.

Well, if you're only rehardpointing the planets, then they would only require a .mod without textures. That'd be way less of a D/L. And it'd be quicker, cuz the alternative is to find nice looking planet models and hardpoint those, and it'd be tough to get all the ones we need.

However, you run into a problem with someone swapping out better planet models that are not hardpointed properly. To avoid that, we need to find or make better looking planet models so one wouldnt want to replace them. I tried once before... but the response was a little soft. Course that was just me asking in a non-friendly models forum... At the time I'm sure I was posting about excessive model polys or something... So with your and FOAS's backing, mb it could get done?

[Dizzy]

Cool, sometime tomorrow, ill post the diagram for the hardpoints. Where is shipedit?

[FireSoul]

I should still have a copy of it on my downloads site..
Look through here: http://klingon.pet.dhs.org/sources_and_utils/

Note: I don't think that planets have weapons UIs.

Cool, sometime tomorrow, ill post the diagram for the hardpoints. Where is shipedit?

[Dizzy]

They dont. but im gonna recreate a 360` equatorial hardpoint image that shows the arc of the weapon for @ hardpoint. The planets weapons will all have to be redone.

[FireSoul]

Ugh. I think this "redoing the pirates" thing is going to take me a few months. I may have made an announcement that I'm working on something (and have been for months) but am months away from the end product.

For example, tonight I managed to cover 2 SSD's worth.. the Orion LRS and the Orion LX. I created the data templates that generate the ships for all Orion races: 94 shiplist entries.  *sigh*  There's a lot of tools I wrote to help myself move along, but I'm afraid it's just going to take a long time.

-- FS

--------------

..
For the curious, here's how my templating works:
First, I have a shiplist-like file with the templates entered. I put in illegal weapons in option mounts in a way that describes what kind of option mount is present.
MLR (Mauler) : Centerline option mount.
ESGL (ESG Lance) : Wing option mount.
PhoH (Heavy Photon) : HDW rear-firing mount.

I have written perl script that take these templates as well as coded directives in a source file and generate the various ship entries. Weapon mounts are mentioned as the column number in the shiplist itself.

ie, template data:

Code: [Select]

  "X-LRS1" => { 'template' => 'O-LRS', 'race' => 'OrionOrion',
    'options' => {
      27 => { 'weapon' => 'Phot', 'num' => '1', 'arc_reload' => 'FA', 'ref' => 27, },
  }, },
  "X-LRS+1" => { 'template' => 'O-LRS+', 'race' => 'OrionOrion',
    'refit_base_class' => 'X-LRS1',
    'options' => {
      27 => { 'weapon' => 'Phot', 'num' => '1', 'arc_reload' => 'FA', 'ref' => 27, },
  }, },
  "X-LRSx1" => { 'template' => 'O-LRSx', 'race' => 'OrionOrion',
    'refit_base_class' => 'X-LRS+1',
    'options' => {
      27 => { 'weapon' => 'Phot', 'num' => '1', 'arc_reload' => 'FA', 'ref' => 27, },
  }, },


I have coded Annex 8B (option mounts) and Annex 8H (HDW options) for what is valid for SFC and thus can generate the ships' weapon loadouts. The BPVs will be accurate, and weapon-based BPV adjustments (like no UIM breakdown BPV increases) can be done at this level.
 
ie: a sizeclass 4 X ship can have a Disruptor 30..

Code: [Select]

  "Phot" => { 'weapon' => 'Phot', 'BPV' => 0, },
  "Dis1" => { 'weapon' => 'Dis1', 'BPV' => 0, 'min_sizeclass' => 4, },
  "Dis2" => { 'weapon' => 'Dis2', 'BPV' => 1, 'min_sizeclass' => 4, },
  "Dis3" => { 'weapon' => 'Dis3', 'BPV' => 2, 'min_sizeclass' => 3, },
  "Dis4" => { 'weapon' => 'Dis4', 'BPV' => 3, 'min_sizeclass' => 2, },
  "Dis3X" => { 'weapon' => 'Dis3', 'BPV' => 2, 'min_sizeclass' => 4, 'xtech' => 1, },
  "Dis4X" => { 'weapon' => 'Dis4', 'BPV' => 3, 'min_sizeclass' => 3, 'xtech' => 1, },


Here's what the script's debug output looks like:

Code: [Select]

* X-LRS1
** based on template 'O-LRS'
** template 'O-LRS' loaded.
** setting race to: OrionOrion
** UI: PFF  mounts: 27, 30, 33, 60, 63, 78, 81, 84
** have:  center:1  HDW:0  wing/any:0
** want: (1) Phot  reload/arc: FA
** want:  center:0  HDW:0  wing/any:1
** YFA: -13, YLA: 7
** installing (1) Phot (reload/arc: FA) into mount 27
*** BPV increased by 0. (68 -> 68)
** Total BPV: 68
* X-LRS+1
** based on template 'O-LRS+'
** template 'O-LRS+' loaded.
** setting race to: OrionOrion
** UI: PFF  mounts: 27, 30, 33, 60, 63, 78, 81, 84
** have:  center:1  HDW:0  wing/any:0
** want: (1) Phot  reload/arc: FA
** want:  center:0  HDW:0  wing/any:1
** refit base: X-LRS1   refit: shield
** YFA: 6, YLA: 36
** installing (1) Phot (reload/arc: FA) into mount 27
*** BPV increased by 0. (73 -> 73)
** Total BPV: 73
* X-LRSx1
** based on template 'O-LRSx'
** template 'O-LRSx' loaded.
** setting race to: OrionOrion
** UI: PFF  mounts: 27, 30, 33, 60, 63, 78, 81, 84
** have:  center:1  HDW:0  wing/any:0
** want: (1) Phot  reload/arc: FA
** want:  center:0  HDW:0  wing/any:1
** refit base: X-LRS+1   refit: PARTIAL X REFIT
** YFA: 33, YLA: 999
** installing (1) Phot (reload/arc: FA) into mount 27
*** BPV increased by 0. (82 -> 82)
** Total BPV: 82


[FoaS_XC]

Well, dude - I think many of us weren't even expecting to see a new version of OP+, therefor, I doubt any of us would mind waiting (at least) or helping (where we can). Just do your thing, man. We got your back.

[FireSoul]

Well, dude - I think many of us weren't even expecting to see a new version of OP+, therefor, I doubt any of us would mind waiting (at least) or helping (where we can). Just do your thing, man. We got your back.

.. well.. let's talk option mount weapon loadouts for the various pirate races.

To paraphrase the SFB rules, a pirate fleet must have at least 70% of its weapons from the local empire. 20% can come from the neighbour empires and the 10% can be from anywhere. Additionally, any pirate ship may choose to pay for a cloaking device. I have automated the OAKDISC cost and settings based on loadouts.

Thus:
Orion (generic SFC2-EAW pirate race)  => whatever
OrionOrion => 70% Fed, 20% Rom and Klingon.
OrionKorgath => 70% Klingon, 20% Fed and Hydran
OrionPrime => 70% Romulan, 20% Fed and ISC
OrionTigerHeart => 70% Lyran, 20% Klingon and Mirak/Kzinti
OrionBeastRaiders => 70% Hydran, 20% Klingon and Lyran
OrionSyndicate => 70% Gorn, 20% Fed and Romulan
OrionWyldeFire => 70% ISC, 20% Romulan and Gorn. (Plasmas.. and more plasmas? Oh, and some phasers)
OrionCamboro => 70% Mirak/Kzinti, 20% Fed and Lyran


The way I've been doing loadouts is that I want to try to make 2-3 variants of each ship. If I've got more than enough mounts, I'll make a 0 variant with a special weapon or 2.

ie:
Syndicate LR  (1 centerhull FA/FH(plasma) , 2 wing mounts LS/RS or LP/RP(plasma))
0: Dis2, DroG, DroG
1: PLaF, PLaF, PLaF -- cloak
2: PLaF, DroG, DroG
3: Phot, PLaD, PLaD -- cloak


So. I have Tons and Tons of ship loadouts to create. Who wants to try their hand at it?

[Bonk]

I love it when you talk like that.    Don't tempt me so.

I would love to write the algorithm to fill out a pirate shiplist against sfb constraints. Generate them all with the push of a button and then have the definitions in code on hand...

But I have this regexp problem to work on today and a matlab program to write (which of course I will overdo to the umpteenth degree).

P.S. I'm curious about how being a bilingual Canadian has gone down there, if it has affected the experience at all or how you are received. Also curious about your daughter... look out world! Got a post somewhere with such updates?

[marstone]

have a question?  Any way to add new ship UIs to ship edit?  My luck new projects starting and my machine is down.

[FireSoul]

I love it when you talk like that.    Don't tempt me so.

I would love to write the algorithm to fill out a pirate shiplist against sfb constraints. Generate them all with the push of a button and then have the definitions in code on hand...

There were a lot of problems solved, first. One of the is that I have all the UIs in code, which helps determine if putting a weapon in a specific mountpoint will make it viewable in-game. Another was the automatic ADD generation for DroG and DroGX weapons.

But I have this regexp problem to work on today and a matlab program to write (which of course I will overdo to the umpteenth degree).

What's the regexp question? ;p

P.S. I'm curious about how being a bilingual Canadian has gone down there, if it has affected the experience at all or how you are received. Also curious about your daughter... look out world! Got a post somewhere with such updates?

I have a 7-year old autistic son who is having a grand ol' ball using hulu to view OLD cartoons. I think he just watched an episode of He-Man. ;p  As for being French Canadian, my English is excellent and I'm doing all right. I miss being able to casually speak French (specifically, our French) for an extended period of time. .. but it doesn't affect my work or living at all. I'm doing ok.

[FireSoul]

have a question?  Any way to add new ship UIs to ship edit?  My luck new projects starting and my machine is down.

Hey Marstone. I don't know how the images are set up in ShipEdit, but the mount points themselves are defined in a text file.
Program Files\EagleEye Software Group\ShipEdit\dat\HARDPOINTOPB2.TXT

The dat files are complete unknowns:

Code: [Select]

$ file *
(...)
RCX-a.se:          data
RCX-n.se:          data
RDD-a.se:          data
RDD-a.ui:          data
RDD-n.se:          data
RDD-n.ui:          data

-- FS

PS. I love cygwin.
PPS. Don't worry about new UIs. I want this to be a classic OP+. We can look into modding the game's internals, and making this stuff integral, later.

[marstone]

Yeah I looked into the data files and drew a blank. But knowing the hardpoints are in one file might help. Thanks.

Understand not adding new uis.

[FireSoul]

Today, I'm looking at doing the Orion DBR and its refits. I took about 60 to 90 minutes to think about and put together the following. I am looking for comments or suggestions of better ship loadouts following the previously-mentioned 70,20,10 loadout rules.

-- FS


Orion DBR is small (sizeclass 4), has 3 individual centerhull options and 2 wing mounts. It can't have any double-space weapons (PLaG, PLaS, ESG, PPD, ..) nor any of the heavier heavy weapons (Dis3, HB, ..) because of its size.


Orion
1: Dis2, Dis2, Dis2, DroB, DroB
2: Phot, Ph1, Phot, DroG, DroG
3: Ph1, PLaD, Ph1, PLaF, PLaF -- cloak

OrionOrion
1: Phot, Phot, Phot, DroG, DroG
2: DroG, Ph1, DroG, DroG, DroG
3: Dis2, PLaF, Dis2, Ph1, Ph1

OrionKorgath
1: Dis2, Dis2, Dis2, DroB, DroB
2: Dis2, PhG, Dis2, ADD, ADD
3: DroB, Fus, DroB, DroB, DroB

OrionPrime
1: Ph1, PlaF, Ph1, PLaF, PLaF -- cloak
2: PLaD, Phot, PLaD, PLaF, PLaF
3: Ph1, DroG, Ph1, PLaD, PLaD

OrionTigerHeart
1: Dis2, Dis2, Dis2, Ph2, Ph2
2: Ph1, Dis2, Ph1, DroC, DroC
3: Dis2, PhG, Dis2, Ph1, Ph1

OrionBeastRaiders
1: Fus, Fus, Fus, PhG, PhG
2: DroB, Ph2, DroB, PhG, PhG
3: Fus, ADD, Fus, Ph1, Ph1

OrionSyndicate
1: PLaF, Ph1, PLaF, PLaD, PLaD
2: PLaD, PLaF, PLaD, PLaF, PLaF -- cloak
3: Phot, DroG, Phot, Ph1, Ph1

OrionWyldeFire
1: PLaF, Ph1, PLaF, PLaD, PLaD
2: PLaF, PLaD, PLaF, PLaF, PLaF -- cloak
3: PLaF, PLaF, PLaF, Ph1, Ph1

OrionCamboro
1: Dis2, DroC, Dis2, DroB, DroB
2: Dis2, Phot, Dis2, ADD, ADD
3: DroB, Ph1, DroB, DroC, DroC

[Starfox1701]

looks good here

[Bonk]

Nice work on the mountpoint validation.

My regexp problem was latex math delimiters... whoever decided to use both single and double dollar signs was a sadistic bastard. I opted to skip the headache and replace the single dollar sign delimiters with math tags consistent with WikiMedia's implementation, but keeping the other three standard latex math delimiters. I was constrained by the framework I was working in (jQuery/TiddlyWiki) but came up with a pretty good compromise today.
http://myweb.dal.ca/haines/#PluginMathJax
I know pretty much where all the browsers stand now. Next up, ChemDoodle. It won't be so easy. So maybe I'll whip off my overdone matlab app first. 

Glad to hear things are going well. Turn the young fellow on to Hercules and Rocky and Bullwinkle if he has not discovered them yet. G-Force was frickin awesome too.

[FireSoul]

Nice work on the mountpoint validation.

Dude! What do the words "Unit Tests" tell you? I've got my own shiplist cleaned up with unit tests and TDD. Once things were mostly cleaned up, THEN I worked on generators like the Partial X Refit generator and the current Pirate generator.

http://pet.dhs.org/mediawiki/index.php/OPPlus_and_Test-Driven_Development

My regexp problem was latex math delimiters... whoever decided to use both single and double dollar signs was a sadistic bastard. I opted to skip the headache and replace the single dollar sign delimiters with math tags consistent with WikiMedia's implementation, but keeping the other three standard latex math delimiters. I was constrained by the framework I was working in (jQuery/TiddlyWiki) but came up with a pretty good compromise today.
http://myweb.dal.ca/haines/#PluginMathJax
I know pretty much where all the browsers stand now. Next up, ChemDoodle. It won't be so easy. So maybe I'll whip off my overdone matlab app first. 

.. so nothing like Perl's or sed's or grep's regexp?

Glad to hear things are going well. Turn the young fellow on to Hercules and Rocky and Bullwinkle if he has not discovered them yet. G-Force was frickin awesome too.

Oh he already went through the Hercules weeks ago, and it just so happens that Rocky and Bullwinkle was played on Thursday.