Topic: FYI: work in progress: OP+ 4.1

[FireSoul]

Here are the 3 Fed DN models I currently have for OP+. The last one on the right is the one I wonder if we should keep or replace, along with related models used for the F-BCE, F-BB, etc.

[FoaS_XC]

that model isn't mine - its the stock KA one - the one I use is WZ's (but that also needs overhaul).

I thought you just wondered if you should replace the nacelles.

[Dizzy]

The installer would get too big if each ship had its own model. Additionally, I'm trying to remain fully compatible to the old game as if it was 2001 again. That means 8 bit textures, and 3 LODs (levels of details). Crappy stuff. On purpose.

I will take individual suggestions, but you have to understand that I might turn down many just because it's.. too good.
Note: The low res and poly count paid off on Saturday when Coopace 4.0 decided to generate a fleet of Lyrans against us. Since we were playing X-tech era, the script generated X-tech only X-tech Lyrans. There were at LEAST 20 PFs after us, not counting the 6-7 ships.  Low rez matters! ;p

Yes, something I've been advocating for a long time to the newer modeler crowd how we need to keep the lod's and use lower poly meshes... something they dont understand... I've already pissed sum off, lol.

FS: The template for the planet hardpoint was done and tested and worked. We were successfully able to move hardpoints from the northern and southern lattitudes toward the equator and place phasers there that destroyed incoming shuttles and drones. Evens the playing field for plasma and DF races trying to do PA missions over the droners. Still cant put drones on planets, the AI fires them thru the mesh causing irritating collision noises. So DF weapons, even PlaD work when placing the hardpoint along the planets equator.

Right now, we should discuss the how to implement this, because even your no models version would have to have at least the planet meshes. Should we discuss using the better poly planet meshes with atmosphere detail techniques, or just rehardpoint the mesh and use the old textures because at this point, we only have a working test mesh.

[Dizzy]

Here are the 3 Fed DN models I currently have for OP+. The last one on the right is the one I wonder if we should keep or replace, along with related models used for the F-BCE, F-BB, etc.

Replace the last one on the right! That's my vote!

[FoaS_XC]

It's not that they don't understand, its that most of the time, they don't care. They aren't players - they are artists. There are some, like myself, who understands the need for lower poly, and some of my meshes reflect that - othertimes, I don't care (example: my excelsior is 15k).

[FireSoul]

Do you have a working .MOD of a planet the way you're describing it, or will I be creating this?

Note: I have a Windows XP SP3 virtual machine with:
- 3dsmax 5 with SFC plugin
  -- tested. Created a FCSX model. See: http://www.dynaverse.net/forum/index.php/topic,163390626.0.html
- VisualStudio 6 SP5 (not 6!) with the right modifications to compile SFC scripts
  -- tested. Created an 'BattleFest Intense' at some point. It's pretty awesome.
- other old SFC tools, like shipedit for OP, etc.

The installer would get too big if each ship had its own model. Additionally, I'm trying to remain fully compatible to the old game as if it was 2001 again. That means 8 bit textures, and 3 LODs (levels of details). Crappy stuff. On purpose.

I will take individual suggestions, but you have to understand that I might turn down many just because it's.. too good.
Note: The low res and poly count paid off on Saturday when Coopace 4.0 decided to generate a fleet of Lyrans against us. Since we were playing X-tech era, the script generated X-tech only X-tech Lyrans. There were at LEAST 20 PFs after us, not counting the 6-7 ships.  Low rez matters! ;p

Yes, something I've been advocating for a long time to the newer modeler crowd how we need to keep the lod's and use lower poly meshes... something they dont understand... I've already pissed sum off, lol.

FS: The template for the planet hardpoint was done and tested and worked. We were successfully able to move hardpoints from the northern and southern lattitudes toward the equator and place phasers there that destroyed incoming shuttles and drones. Evens the playing field for plasma and DF races trying to do PA missions over the droners. Still cant put drones on planets, the AI fires them thru the mesh causing irritating collision noises. So DF weapons, even PlaD work when placing the hardpoint along the planets equator.

Right now, we should discuss the how to implement this, because even your no models version would have to have at least the planet meshes. Should we discuss using the better poly planet meshes with atmosphere detail techniques, or just rehardpoint the mesh and use the old textures because at this point, we only have a working test mesh.

[FireSoul]

Okay.. uhh..
With what?

Here are the 3 Fed DN models I currently have for OP+. The last one on the right is the one I wonder if we should keep or replace, along with related models used for the F-BCE, F-BB, etc.

Replace the last one on the right! That's my vote!

[Kreeargh]

It's not that they don't understand, its that most of the time, they don't care. They aren't players - they are artists. There are some, like myself, who understands the need for lower poly, and some of my meshes reflect that - othertimes, I don't care (example: my excelsior is 15k).

For new artists in SFC they probly dont know about lods. Most yes dont care and claim their system can handle it untill they get 20 ,2000 poly pf fighters in game and it lags to a crawl.
For others like me they dont want to make 3 models and map them all for 1 download, i have a few not 1 with lods any one cared about - for most downloaders not to care anyway its all about the glory looks. 1/3 of downloads from Battleclinic are used in SFC my guess the rest are riped for other games.   

[Bonk]

Id like to get the rehardpointed planet meshes thrown in too to correct the oldest and laziest bug out there if we can do that, ...

This makes me laugh.    Dizzy's favorite axe to grind!

Most cool on an OP+4.1   Let me know when it's ready for dynaverse testing. Though I doubt there'll be much difference, but good to get the list out there if I put it on The Forge (more than willing to if you want to, but not during the three revisions a week phase... )

[FireSoul]

There won't be a no-models version. Screw 'em. Too much work for me.
While I will make sure the game can run on a PC from 2001, I'm not gonna gimp a mini-download just so some poor slob can save money on a ~64mb (currently) download. Dudes! A WoW client download from torrents is what, 17GB?

No. No more 'no-models' version.

Right now, we should discuss the how to implement this, because even your no models version would have to have at least the planet meshes. Should we discuss using the better poly planet meshes with atmosphere detail techniques, or just rehardpoint the mesh and use the old textures because at this point, we only have a working test mesh.

[Shalafi]

If you need a playtester who has a lot of practice building/balancing ships I 'd be more than happy to lend a hand

my e-mail is shalafi4 at  gmail.com

[FireSoul]

Well, how would you like to test it? I *do* have the installer from that Saturday LAN party. 
http://dream.pet.dhs.org/~firesoul/opplus_41_models_20100912180929.exe

There are known bugs that have been fixed but that shiplist isn't ready yet: I'm programatically generating pirates. (currently doing data entry for it.)


For the curious, the pirate ship generation output from my scripts looks a lot like this:

ADDs added automatically!

Code: [Select]

* Y-LRx2
** based on template 'O-LRx'
** installing (1) DroB (reload/arc: 2) into mount 27
*** BPV increased by 9. (82 -> 91)
*** placing 1 ADD12 in mount 84.
** installing (1) DroB (reload/arc: 2) into mount 30
*** BPV increased by 9. (91 -> 100)
*** placing 1 ADD12 in mount 84.
** installing (1) DroB (reload/arc: 2) into mount 33
*** BPV increased by 9. (100 -> 109)
*** placing 1 ADD12 in mount 84.
** total ADD6: 0, total ADD12: 3
** Total BPV: 109

PlasmaD (instead of drones), Cloak and OAKDISC!

Code: [Select]

* P-SAL1
** based on template 'O-SAL'
** installing (1) Phot (reload/arc: FA) into mount 33
*** BPV increased by 0. (90 -> 90)
** installing (1) Phot (reload/arc: FA) into mount 36
*** BPV increased by 0. (90 -> 90)
** installing PlasmaD instead of drones. (+ 8 BPV)
** installing cloak: increasing BPV by 25. (Cloak cost: 15 BPV)
** this ship has enough drones and/or PLaD to require OAKDISC to fire all each turn (+ 15 BPV)
** Total BPV: 138


If you need a playtester who has a lot of practice building/balancing ships I 'd be more than happy to lend a hand

my e-mail is shalafi4 at  gmail.com

[The Postman]

I just sent a friend request
you should see Sirgod in my friends list by his real name

Ed K

[Shalafi]

well... I think this would sum it up pretty well .




 

[FireSoul]

I just sent a friend request
you should see Sirgod in my friends list by his real name

Ed K

Cool. Thanks.

[Age]

It sounds interesting op4.1 I do however like the F-BCE with 2 warp nacelles like in the movies.I though Fed Dn were fine op4.0 like DNH.

[FoaS_XC]

Okay.. uhh..
With what?

Here are the 3 Fed DN models I currently have for OP+. The last one on the right is the one I wonder if we should keep or replace, along with related models used for the F-BCE, F-BB, etc.

Replace the last one on the right! That's my vote!

Hum-de-dum


drop the third and forth nacelles, drop the top rollbar and put the third nacelle where top rollbar was.

[Bonk]

- VisualStudio 6 SP2 (not 3!) with the right modifications to compile SFC scripts

Shouldn't it be VC6SP5? (that is what we're building the serverkit with)  Not to get into a big compiler discussion (later).  But does it matter if they match? I thought it did?

[FireSoul]

*checks*
uh. ok. SP5. you're right. *edit*

- VisualStudio 6 SP2 (not 3!) with the right modifications to compile SFC scripts

Shouldn't it be VC6SP5? (that is what we're building the serverkit with)  Not to get into a big compiler discussion (later).  But does it matter if they match? I thought it did?

[FireSoul]

Hm.
Here are my thoughts.. some requirements if you will:

• The F-BCE has to look like the Excelsior from the movies. (in fact it IS the Excelsior from the movies) (Just wondering if there's a better model than Taldren's).
• The DNs must look like it can support saucer separation with 1 nacelle and all the impulse.
• The BB must look like it can support saucer separation with 2 nacelles and all the impulse.

Thus I think a saucer strut would make sense to a secondary hull. Your model looks great on its own, but looks all 1-piece. ;(

We don't HAVE to change the models, but I am still wondering if there's better than what OP+ currently has, is all. Got other suggestions?

Okay.. uhh..
With what?

Here are the 3 Fed DN models I currently have for OP+. The last one on the right is the one I wonder if we should keep or replace, along with related models used for the F-BCE, F-BB, etc.

Replace the last one on the right! That's my vote!

Hum-de-dum


drop the third and forth nacelles, drop the top rollbar and put the third nacelle where top rollbar was.