Topic: =/\= Since stoney is away, I'll share a time travel news story with ya.  (Read 3439 times)

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Offline Sirgod

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As we found out the other day, Stoney was going on Holiday, so I'll try and post some stories that he might have missed while he away.

http://www.sciencenews.org/view/generic/id/61301/title/Taming_time_travel

Novelists and screenwriters know that time travel can be accomplished in all sorts of ways: a supercharged DeLorean, Hermione’s small watch and, most recently, a spacetime-bending hot tub have allowed fictional heroes to jump between past and future.

But physicists know that time travel is more than just a compelling plot device — it’s a serious prediction of Einstein’s general relativity equations. In a new study posted online July 15, researchers led by Seth Lloyd at MIT analyze how some of the quirks and peculiarities of real-life time travel might play out. This particular kind of time travel evades some of its most paradoxical predictions, Lloyd says.

Any theory of time travel has to confront the devastating “grandfather paradox,” in which a traveler jumps back in time and kills his grandfather, which prevents his own existence, which then prevents the murder in the first place, and so on.

One model, put forth in the early 1990s by Oxford physicist David Deutsch, can allow inconsistencies between the past a traveler remembers and the past he experiences. So a person could remember killing his grandfather without ever having done it. “It has some weird features that don’t square with what we thought time travel might work out as,” Lloyd says.

In contrast, Lloyd prefers a model of time travel that explicitly forbids these inconsistencies. This version, posted at arXiv.org, is called a post-selected model. By going back and outlawing any events that would later prove paradoxical in the future, this theory gets rid of the uncomfortable idea that a time traveler could prevent his own existence. “In our version of time travel, paradoxical situations are censored,” Lloyd says.

But this dictum against paradoxical events causes possible but unlikely events to happen more frequently. “If you make a slight change in the initial conditions, the paradoxical situation won’t happen. That looks like a good thing, but what it means is that if you’re very near the paradoxical condition, then slight differences will be extremely amplified,” says Charles Bennett of IBM’s Watson Research Center in Yorktown Heights, N.Y.

For instance, a bullet-maker would be inordinately more likely to produce a defective bullet if that very bullet was going to be used later to kill a time traveler’s grandfather, or the gun would misfire, or “some little quantum fluctuation has to whisk the bullet away at the last moment,” Lloyd says. In this version of time travel, the grandfather, he says, is “a tough guy to kill.”

This distorted probability close to the paradoxical situation is still strange, says physicist Daniel Gottesman of the Perimeter Institute in Waterloo, Canada. “The thing is, that when we modify physics in this way, weird things end up happening. And that’s kind of unavoidable,” he says. “You’re dealing with time travel. Maybe you should expect it to be weird.”

In an earlier paper posted in May at arXiv.org, Lloyd and his team present an experiment designed to simulate this post-selection model using photons. Though the team couldn’t send the photons into the past, they could put them in quantum situations similar to those that might be encountered by a time traveler. As the photons got closer and closer to being in self-inconsistent, paradoxical situations, the experiment succeeded with less and less frequency, the team found, hinting that true time travel might work the same way.

The experiments were meant to simulate freaky paths through spacetime called closed timelike curves, which carry anything traveling along them into the past and then back to the future. Einstein’s equations predicted that travelers on a closed timelike curve would eventually end up back where they started. Although predicted to exist on paper, no such paths have been observed in the wild. Some physicists predict that these loops might exist in exotic regions where spacetime is drastically different, such as in the depths of black holes.

Despite its strange predictions, the new model forms “a nice, consistent loop,” says theoretical physicist Todd Brun of the University of Southern California in Los Angeles. The new papers make up “a really interesting body of work.”

These days, deciding which theory of time travel is best is largely a matter of taste. Until someone discovers a closed timelike curve in the wild, or figures out how to build a time machine, no one will know the answer, says Brun. “I don’t expect these will be tested anytime soon. These are ideas. They’re fun to play with.”

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And how about a 3d input device for PC's.

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2010/07/100721085354.htm

3-D Gesture-Based Interaction System Unveiled

ScienceDaily (July 25, 2010) — Touch screens such as those found on the iPhone or iPad are the latest form of technology allowing interaction with smart phones, computers and other devices. However, scientists at Fraunhofer FIT has developed the next generation non-contact gesture and finger recognition system. The novel system detects hand and finger positions in real-time and translates these into appropriate interaction commands. Furthermore, the system does not require special gloves or markers and is capable of supporting multiple users.

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Stephen
"You cannot exaggerate about the Marines. They are convinced to the point of arrogance, that they are the most ferocious fighters on earth - and the amusing thing about it is that they are."- Father Kevin Keaney, Chaplain, Korean War

Offline knightstorm

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You need to get Britney to weigh in on this.

Offline Sirgod

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Hehe, yeah, Britney teaching Physics, is like getting Fiona Apple to teach cooking.

Stephen
"You cannot exaggerate about the Marines. They are convinced to the point of arrogance, that they are the most ferocious fighters on earth - and the amusing thing about it is that they are."- Father Kevin Keaney, Chaplain, Korean War

Offline knightstorm

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What are you talking about?  Time travel is Britney's area of expertise.

Offline Lono

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Scientific American had an excellent piece recently on how Time is not a physical proprety of the Universe - but rather an asbtract notion - like money - that is used as an intellectual shortcut by sentient species.

Time aparrently falls out of all physics equations - even Einsteins - very easily.

A more enlightening way to look at things - for me - is by comparing their relative rates of entropy.

Therefore you couldn't travel back in time without reversing entropy for all particles in the Universe (asuming the Universe is a closed system - which is not necessarily a given)

Since nothing could ever do this without be affected by the entropy reversal itself - no paradoxes will ever play out.

Now the equation for entropy itself does not include time - but it leads me to wonder what causes entropy - perhaps "dark energy" - and if there is a way to retard it locally.

(since significant acceleration seems to reduce entropy in a system - at least temporarily)

If we could figure that out we could makes ome AWESOME storage cellars - course you would probably want to sleep in there from time to time as well!

« Last Edit: July 27, 2010, 12:07:55 pm by Lono »

Offline stoneyface

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i think it is awesome that someone stepped up to do some reporting! thanks man. 

i did read this but do have some comments. while the human concept of time is more of an abstract and not really a universal truth. however in physics and quantum physics the concept of space-time is not, it is a a dimension.  in fact, in M-theory there is 10 physical dimensions and one of space-time.
as far as the grandfather paradox there have been lots of work written explaining that if time travel ever is actually developed you would not be able to travel further back in time than the moment of invention, this would eliminate the "i'm my own grandpa" problem. i need more time to digest the new information before i comment but wanted to at least speak up on these points.

yes, vacation is going well... altho they canceled my first and second flight i had to fly out the next day. i got here fine and am currently typing this i am watching the remastered star trek 6!!!
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Offline marstone

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i think it is awesome that someone stepped up to do some reporting! thanks man. 

i did read this but do have some comments. while the human concept of time is more of an abstract and not really a universal truth. however in physics and quantum physics the concept of space-time is not, it is a a dimension.  in fact, in M-theory there is 10 physical dimensions and one of space-time.
as far as the grandfather paradox there have been lots of work written explaining that if time travel ever is actually developed you would not be able to travel further back in time than the moment of invention, this would eliminate the "i'm my own grandpa" problem. i need more time to digest the new information before i comment but wanted to at least speak up on these points.

actually, even if the theory is that you can't time-travel back before time travel was invented you can still have the kill your grand-pa thing.  Just that you would be born maybe 100 years after time-travel was invented.

I like the theory that every possible event that could happen actually does happen in a large weave of timelines.  Thus if you go back and kill your grandfather, that has already happened in one of the time lines and you don't change your own.  Simple, basic, but who knows.

yes, vacation is going well... altho they canceled my first and second flight i had to fly out the next day. i got here fine and am currently typing this i am watching the remastered star trek 6!!!
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Offline Sirgod

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Oh man, canceled your flights? How are you holding up physically Brother?

Anyways, gonna go read more on your post you made today.

Stephen
"You cannot exaggerate about the Marines. They are convinced to the point of arrogance, that they are the most ferocious fighters on earth - and the amusing thing about it is that they are."- Father Kevin Keaney, Chaplain, Korean War

Offline stoneyface

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Oh man, canceled your flights? How are you holding up physically Brother?

Anyways, gonna go read more on your post you made today.

Stephen

you have no idea how pissed i was when i had to leave the next day. i had to get up at 3am to get to the airport on time grrr. physically i am doing well and going to "avenue q" tomorrow and the smithsonian native american museum this weekend. sleeping well and eating well so doing great physically. thanks :)
BlackOps agent for XenoCorp...

"Sic gorgiamos allos subjectos nunc" - we gladly feast on those who would subdue us...

DMT = Load Universe into Cannon. Aim at Brain. Fire.   -Nietzsche was pietzsche-