Topic: My new wheels  (Read 10052 times)

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Offline GotAFarmYet?

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Re: My new wheels
« Reply #20 on: August 16, 2010, 03:47:10 pm »
Two of my sisters and one other acquaintance have now bought E-Bikes as a result of seeing mine.  At least 3 others (one of which I haven't actually met) are thinking of getting one after hearing of mine.  (Source of their bikes)

I finally found out what caused one of my problems.  The tail lights stopped working and the store couldn't figure it out to fix it.   Not ideal for night driving but I do have reflectors (all the law requires) and near zero traffic to contend with on my night travels so I was not too concerned but a little annoyed.   It turns out the manufacturer instead of putting the wiring to the rear end around the latch that holds the seat compartment closed put it over it and therefore into the latch mechanism itself, the tail light wire was cut right through, the other wires were damaged (the left turn signal was intermittently functional due to being shorted).  I spliced in extension wire and routed around it and everything is now working.

I plan to stop by the store and explain the solution so at least they can check if any of their other bikes have the same wiring fault (and if so they can complain to the manufacturer).  Other people then need not have the same issues I have had. 

The bikes my sisters bought did teach me something to watch for when buying the bikes though.  They are classed by the distributor as dual mode 350/500 watt.  The law allows 500 watts continuous.  My bike is a 350 watt (continuous).  At first I couldn't figure out why my youngest sister who is lighter than I couldn't match my acceleration without kicking up to 500 watt now I know why.  The bikes they bought list the peak power not continuous.  Likely they are more like 250/350 continuous power.  So in the higher mode her bike matches the power of mine and she is enough lighter that she can out accelerate me.  It makes her bike less desirable though. 

One other thing has bugged me and I think I have a solution.  The batteries can't take being frozen.  If we have another winter like last winter it would be possible to ride the bike all winter (suitably dressed of course) if only I had a way to power it without freezing the batteries.  A portable generator and power inverter (110 v AC to 48 v DC) would be lighter than the actual battery and able to power it.  I could either mount it in place of the "trunk" or make a little trailer. 

I'm not sure if I'm actually going to try the "generator trick" but it would extend the machines range to be indefinite just as long as I carry fuel enough to get to a gas station to fill up.  It would also be much lighter than the battery (70 lbs) so I would have better acceleration or be able to carry more.

Overall I'm happy with my E-Bike and it does what I need.


I see it as a few options:
1 in snow country cars come with block heaters that can be plugged in to stop the block from freezing, the oil, etc. You could adapt a system for the battery by insulating the sides and using a electric heating pack.
2 go with the trailler idea and insulate it agains the the cold and store a extra battery or 2.You can also use the wheel as a generator turner to recharge the battery(ies) as you drive.
3 you could always use a gas powered generator trailer to supply the bike or to recharge a spare battery on the trailer.

All of this will add weight to the bike mostly in terms of towing capacity, you might have to pedal it to get started from a dead stop. So check the manual and see what your towing capacity is before you try any of this or you will risk blowing out the motor. also check with a local electrician or factory rep before you try it.
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Offline Nemesis

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Re: My new wheels
« Reply #21 on: August 16, 2010, 04:46:43 pm »
Though I appreciate the suggestions I don't believe that any of them are viable.

I see it as a few options:
1 in snow country cars come with block heaters that can be plugged in to stop the block from freezing, the oil, etc. You could adapt a system for the battery by insulating the sides and using a electric heating pack.

First there would be great risk here of melting the battery pack as it has a plastic casing as do the batteries within.  Secondly with a car block heater once the vehicle is started the heat of the engine keeps things warm, with the battery there is no heat source and the battery needs to be kept warm for about 90 minutes in transit.  Too long without a heat source and with windchill I'm afraid otherwise I'd just keep the battery inside when not riding the bike.  There is also very little room inside the battery compartment for insulation and as one side slides into a mounting bracket that side could not be insulated and fit the bracket.

2 go with the trailler idea and insulate it agains the the cold and store a extra battery or 2.You can also use the wheel as a generator turner to recharge the battery(ies) as you drive.

Again 2 issues.  The first is weight, I'm already close to the weight limit even one more battery goes outside the limit by a lot.

The second is the "Law of Conservation of Energy" though you likely didn't realize it you are describing a perpetual motion machine.  Battery powers motor which drives the wheels to propel the bike and drive a generator to provide power to the battery, it needs greater than 100% energy return to work.

3 you could always use a gas powered generator trailer to supply the bike or to recharge a spare battery on the trailer.

The generator trailer is already being considered.  The spare battery is beyond the weight limit as mentioned above. The generator would replace the battery entirely.

All of this will add weight to the bike mostly in terms of towing capacity, you might have to pedal it to get started from a dead stop. So check the manual and see what your towing capacity is before you try any of this or you will risk blowing out the motor. also check with a local electrician or factory rep before you try it.

The manual unfortunately is in "Asian English" and in any case none of these bikes are really intended for towing so they don't have a towing capacity figured for them. 

If I do substitute a generator for the battery even allowing weight for the trailer it should be lighter than the battery.
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Offline stoneyface

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Re: My new wheels
« Reply #22 on: August 16, 2010, 06:11:48 pm »
it may sounds silly but i have had really good luck with a simple heating pad!
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Offline GotAFarmYet?

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Re: My new wheels
« Reply #23 on: August 16, 2010, 06:58:04 pm »
it may sounds silly but i have had really good luck with a simple heating pad!

Pretty much why I was saying insulate it and then a a lower temperature heat source can be used. Unfortuantly as stated there really is not much room for it. I beleive it was a delware container that would work with maybe thrre layers. it is basically a container within a container with a air gap between and a non-conductive material as spacers. works the same way as triple plane glass. you would only have to heat the thrid or inner most chamber and not allot just enough to keep the batteries above freezing. they make a light weight foam compound you can use as the insulator all you would then need is three or so buckets made of fiberglass or another light weight material. it would basically be a laminate and not very thick maybe a 7-10 mm
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Offline Nemesis

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Re: My new wheels
« Reply #24 on: October 11, 2010, 10:54:37 am »
I found these pictures of an alternate style of E-Bike and thought it might be interesting to some.  I believe that these are aimed more at the elderly who though not handicapped have some mobility issues.  I do wonder at the range as with the extra weight they must push closer to the legal weight limits of an E-Bike here and would be limited in extra battery capacity. The wind drag of the canopy could really slow it down and reduce range.
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Offline Nemesis

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Re: My newer wheels
« Reply #25 on: October 25, 2010, 03:41:18 pm »
 :)
« Last Edit: October 25, 2010, 03:58:17 pm by Nemesis »
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Offline Nemesis

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Re: My newer wheels
« Reply #26 on: October 30, 2010, 02:18:46 pm »
A E-Bike video people may find entertaining. 

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uxBlT1HcyZY[/youtube]

The new E-Bike is working well.  My first ride after I bought it was to ride it home from Toronto (~73km or ~45miles).  The batteries were dieing when I got home but that was expected.  Fortunately they "die like an Opera Singer" and I get a significant distance after the beginning of the death throes.  The speedometer does lie however as it claims a much greater speed than it really gets. 

The old bike had a weight limit (which I pushed with cargo) of 220#s this one is 330#s which I won't be pushing close to except for short distances.  The old bike never got more than about ~40km even in summer when the weight was minimal. 

The pedals "technically function" but are almost useless for pedaling any distance as they will fall off.  The high beam and low beam switches seem to be reversed as well but no drivers have been flashing their lights at me so I suspect that even on "high" they aren't that intense to on coming drivers. 

If I keep the speed down the secondary battery gets about 25km.  The main battery gets more but I haven't exactly measured it, based on the battery rating it should be about twice as much.  Yes the bike has dual battery packs. 

A much better bike for me all around.
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Offline Tus-XC

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Re: My new wheels
« Reply #27 on: October 31, 2010, 01:37:05 pm »
you would figure you could use the pedals to help charge the battery (at least that would be my thinking ) and not just to propel the bike if the battery is dead.  That way you could pedal as you go, making the charge last longer
Rob

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Offline Nemesis

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Re: My new wheels
« Reply #28 on: October 31, 2010, 03:27:46 pm »
you would figure you could use the pedals to help charge the battery (at least that would be my thinking ) and not just to propel the bike if the battery is dead.  That way you could pedal as you go, making the charge last longer

This bike (unlike the earlier one) does do that, it is called power assist.  I think it works by running a small generator then the battery is used to top up what you are generating to the full 48 volts. 

I'm looking at making a 'Y' cable so that I can charge both batteries at the same time (2 chargers) without having to remove one.  The way it is wired there is one charging plug and a switch to allow you to choose which battery you charge (the same switch lets you choose which battery you are running on).  With the 'Y' cable I'd use the built in plug to charge #2 battery and the 'Y' to charge the #1.  I think I can make it out of a couple of spare PC power cords.
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Offline Nemesis

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Re: My new wheels
« Reply #29 on: January 15, 2011, 07:56:26 pm »
I have ridden the new bike at temps as low as -13oC (9oF).  The battery packs do lose potential at those temps but unlike the earlier bike the main battery pack just sits in a "battery well" which I have insulated with 2 of the very thin "emergency blankets".  Even with the cold and extra gear weight I still get the 30KM (18.6mi) to work on the primary battery alone. 

Before the insulation I was having to drop my speed quite a bit to maintain range.  With it I handle lower temps at higher speeds.  It even handles an inch or two of snow pretty well, but not slush. 

Wind chill is the main problem now.  I have to use a proper motorcycle helmet to protect my head from the cold winds.  Ski pants, down filled jacket and heavy duty mittens for outer layers are required too.

Though comfortable I do look forward to spring weather.  :)
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Offline ShadowDiver

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Re: My new wheels
« Reply #30 on: January 15, 2011, 10:47:15 pm »
My car get 368 miles to a tank...tank =16 Gal...Roughly...$49.00 US

My Bike gets 355 miles to a tank...tank 4.2 Gal...Roughly...$12.50 US


and  the winner is..(insert drum roll)

Offline Tus-XC

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Re: My new wheels
« Reply #31 on: January 16, 2011, 12:42:29 am »
Ya know Nem, you could always use them air activated handwarmers, like this http://www.samsclub.com/sams/shop/product.jsp?productId=prod1170308&pid=CSE_Froogle&ci_src=14110944&ci_sku=sku1435102  to heat your battery on them really cold days.  There are also reusable ones though i found in use (this was years ago though) that they tended to have a lower heat output ( http://www.rei.com/product/608751
Rob

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Offline Nemesis

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Re: My new wheels
« Reply #32 on: January 24, 2011, 12:57:56 pm »
My car get 368 miles to a tank...tank =16 Gal...Roughly...$49.00 US

My Bike gets 355 miles to a tank...tank 4.2 Gal...Roughly...$12.50 US


and  the winner is..(insert drum roll)

Your vehicles beat mine on range, speed and carrying capacity.

Mine wins on no vehicle license.  No rider license.  No insurance.  Finally less than a dime for a full charge (both batteries used consecutively give above 70km (44mi) in summer and above 40 (25mi) in winter).  Mine was probably cheaper to buy too ($1804 cdn) including 2 spare chargers ($100+tax each).
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Offline Nemesis

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Re: My new wheels
« Reply #33 on: January 24, 2011, 01:11:12 pm »
Ya know Nem, you could always use them air activated handwarmers,

I have considered them but there is not a lot of excess space in the battery well.  Also there is a plastic battery pack around each pair of batteries which would lower the heat getting to them.  In any case I'm getting the 30 km I require so I'm not going to risk putting a heat source in there. 

One of the big issues is I can't bring the new bike in at home (too long) so I am charging the battery outside.  That limits its charge somewhat as well.  At work I can bring it inside so even though I use my lights going home I actually have more power to spare than when going to work in daylight.
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Offline Sirgod

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Re: My new wheels
« Reply #34 on: January 26, 2011, 07:54:06 pm »
Nem, If I was to look into getting such a thing, and now that you have owned one for a while, what questions would you recommend I ask the dealer? 

After reading about the range, It would be perfect for the quick run to the store for copenhagen, or to the end of the road to check the mail.

I'm getting old, fat, and lazy brother.

Stephen
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Offline Nemesis

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Re: My new wheels
« Reply #35 on: January 27, 2011, 04:36:14 pm »
Nem, If I was to look into getting such a thing, and now that you have owned one for a while, what questions would you recommend I ask the dealer? 

After reading about the range, It would be perfect for the quick run to the store for copenhagen, or to the end of the road to check the mail.

I'm getting old, fat, and lazy brother.

Stephen

Get a horse.  Many advantages such as you can fall asleep and it will bring you back home safely.

Seriously though I'll think it over and post some things to ask about in a day or two.  I won't rush and will try to be thorough.
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Offline Sirgod

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Re: My new wheels
« Reply #36 on: January 27, 2011, 04:50:21 pm »
LOL, I have done the horse thing more than once. But thanks man.

Stephen
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Offline Nemesis

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Re: My new wheels
« Reply #37 on: January 29, 2011, 03:29:56 pm »
E-Bike questions:

I'll address this mostly to you Stephen but will put in some generic stuff that other people may need to consider.  If I think of anything else I'll edit it in.

First check your local laws to make sure they are legal and what requirements you have as a rider/owner.  I listed some of our Ontario ones earlier in the thread.  You might find some restriction you can't live with (some won't wear a helmet for example).

Second ask yourself what you want to use it for.  Make sure the model you buy has the carrying capacity which is not just the weight but the storage.  For example my first bike had a trunk that was too small for a bike helmet to fit in.  Another do you want a bike or a trike?  There are trike versions made specifically for shopping with a "truck bed" behind the seat for carrying. 

Third, storage and charging.  Where are you going to do them?  In your case you can probably put it in a barn or shed but it has to be asked.

Fourth:  Roads.  You really want a hard surface.  A significant layer of gravel is not safe (I nearly wiped out hitting such a patch the day I bought the 2nd bike).  Muddy country roads are very bad also.  Asphalt or concrete is what you want to ride on.

To ask the dealer:
Range:  The more weight you are carrying (including cargo and the heaviest clothes you may wear while riding) the lower your range will go.  It is NOT linear, range drops faster than weight increases (at least in my case). Unless your weight plus cargo is under 175# assume a significant degrading of range.

Weight capacity: It appears that the higher capacity the slower the drop in range as actual weight increases.  The target weight they use when calculating range is 175#s for every bike I have looked at, so compare your weight plus expected cargo to that to decide if you are likely to make the range (ask the dealer specifically what he thinks).

Alarm:  Both my bikes have a "key chain" remote which not only controls the alarm but also can be used to start the bike remotely - or stop it.  My sisters however don't have the remote and the alarm disabling can be done more easily by a theif.    So just having an alarm doesn't mean much.  You really want the remote if you can get it.

Power assist mode:  Can you use both pedals and power at the same time?  This extends your range and lets you handle uphill climbs better.  Hills can really be draining on the battery, pedaling can reduce that significantly.  My second bike has this feature the first doesn't.  Pedalling 170#s of bike when the battery is dead is a task most would avoid, I've done it with the first bike repeatedly for significant distances.

Pedals:  If the law requires that you keep the pedals on look for folding pedals).  It is quite easy (voice of experience here) to give your leg a painful whack if not more with the standard pedals.   

Wattage:  The higher the better (within the law) here they sell 350 and 500 watt.  My first bike was a 350 the second a 500.  Acceleration and hill climbing are better with the 500. 

Voltage: Most bikes I have seen are 48 volt (both of mine and my sisters are 48s).  I just recently saw some that are 60 volt.  The higher voltage enhances hill climbing.  The 60s also use 5 batteries not 4 and that extends their range. 

Lock:  I bought a proper motorcycle wheel lock made by the people who make "The Club" for cars, it is much superiour to the ones provided with the bikes I have seen.

Kickstands:  Some have 2 some one.  The side leaning stand is easier to use but not as stable.  The other requires strength (that I know you have) to pull the bike up onto it, smaller lighter people can have trouble with it.

That is good for a start.
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Offline Sirgod

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Re: My new wheels
« Reply #38 on: January 29, 2011, 07:31:43 pm »
Thanks man. Hmm, this might be interesting as I myself, wearing nothing but a grass skirt pushes around 230 lbs now.  I suppose I'll take my Scientific calculator if and when I decide to go look at them then.

I hadn't thought of the trike, but that would be a good idea. also, you probably mentioned it, But how long does it take to charge, and will it plug into a normal 110 plug? I ask as I figure, I can charge it near the wind power thingie I'm working on/ almost have done. (Thought I did, but the company kind of screwed up, so I'm having another one fix the problems. )

Stephen
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Offline Nemesis

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Re: My new wheels
« Reply #39 on: January 29, 2011, 08:27:26 pm »
Most of them seem to take 6 to 8 hours for a full charge.  The trike uses the same basic hardware as the bikes so they use the same standard household power to charge. 

I have read of E-bikes with capacities up to 450#s.  Haven't actually seen them but have read of them.

The E-Trikes seem to be aimed at two groups.  1/ shoppers 2/ supervisor in large factories.

Note: Care must be taken to keep the grass skirt from getting caught in rotating components. 
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