Topic: Porting problem...

[Centurus]

Ok, so I've been making all my models in MAX 9 in edit poly mode.  I've made sure that every component is welded along the seems.  I don't like unifying meshes, cause I like to be basher friendly.

Ok, so here's the problem.  Whenever I export to 3DS format, or any type of format, and import to MAX 5, the model tears itself apart along the seems.  I re-weld all the seems and make sure everything is good, vert by vert, and yes, that takes a long ass time, and when I try exporting out to SFC format in MAX 5, I bring the ported SFC model into another instance of MAX 5, and the ship's torn itself apart again along the same seems.  I rinse and repeat, and things never get fixed.

Any ideas people.  If not, I'm gonna need someone more experienced than me to port my models for me.

[FoaS_XC]

Can you post the Max file? I still have 3ds Max 9 on here, i'll take a look when I get home tomorrow :-)

[Tus-XC]

try converting it to an editable mesh before export or use FoaS exporting tool which i think might solve your problem.

[FoaS_XC]

the Borislov Petrov File Format will create a script that you can run in an earlier version of max. This means that Cent has to have said previous version of max. ... Do my video tutorials cover it? can't recall.

Still, post the max file if you wish :-)

[Centurus]

I tried attaching all the various components into a single object, I've had the model smoothed with groups of 30 and even 45, and once with a smoothing of 20, and several times with no smoothing at all.

Sometimes, in MAX 9, converting the model to editable mesh, some of the edges literally disappear.  Not sure if that's normal or not.

Anyway, Fury, if you don't mind, I'd like to e-mail you the MAX file to the e-mail listed in your profile.  As for your exporting tool that TUS mentions, this is the first I've heard of it.

[FoaS_XC]

You can email it, no problem. you can do Furyofaseraph (at) gmail (dot) com or Rob (at) Robinomicon (dot) com

I'll have to rewatch those video tutorials, see if I cover the export/re-import process.

[Centurus]

Thanks for the help.

I don't understand why I'm having this problem, never had this problem during my kitbashing days.  Then again when I was a kitbasher, I never used any other program than MAX 5, and all the ships were already in SFC format.

Just don't know what's causing it.  Maybe it's a bad install of MAX or something, I don't know.  I might be rebuilding this machine soon, I do know I have to reformat my system anyway.  Maybe I'll set up a spare drive with a MAX 5 install on it and keep MAX 9 on my main machine only.  I don't know.

Anyway, Fury, you should have an e-mail hopefully soon.

[FoaS_XC]

I exported the model as a 3DS format and brought that back into max 9. it split.

That is a quality of 3ds format that I have never before encountered. my solution? don't use it. Use OBJ. or use the file format tus was talking about.

[Centurus]

OBJ doesn't work.  It always crashes on export, and MAX 5 for some reason can't import it.  Also, even if I fix the model in MAX 5, and then do a final export to SFC format, it does the same thing all over again.

Also, TUS didn't mention a file format to export to.

[FoaS_XC]

Tus was referring to a Max Script that I make use of to convert my max scenes from max 9 into max 4.2, which lets me then lets me export to MOD format. I'll make a video tutorial as soon as i use the bathroom if you'd like.

[FoaS_XC]

Part 1 of my Conversion Workflow tutorial.

[youtube]Uhs4m42uKjs[/youtube]

Part 2

[youtube]ruHoWcePeNI[/youtube]

Maxscript tools referenced in this video (Including the BFF format exporter) are available on my site: here

[Centurus]

When I'm on the main machine, I'll start on the tut and let you know.  Question though, did you follow that same process of yours when trying to convert the ship I sent to see if it would also tear itself apart?

[FoaS_XC]

No, but only because I didn't have the textures. Just remember to collapse the objects down to Editable Poly and Reset the Transforms before you export. I'd watch the whole tutorial first, before running through the process.

[Centurus]

What do you mean by resetting the transforms?

[FoaS_XC]

I will make yet another video to explain it, and why its important >.<

[FoaS_XC]

A video that quickly explains why you need to reset your transforms as well as how to do it.

[youtube]quOI3cmtA6M[/youtube]

Sorry if it seems like I was rushing it, but I tried 4 times to get it below 10 minutes.

Note also that the video may still be processing, so video quality won't be great at first. Give it 10 minutes or so and it will be fine.

[Centurus]

Question, when you split your file, does it double the number of verts the ship has, where the groups are split? 

[FoaS_XC]

The only way it will double is if you have no smoothing groups assigned. The Split is designed to break apart polygons by smoothing groups. Basically it splits hard, non-smoothed edges.

[Centurus]

I'm having problems getting the max scripts to run.  I can't seem to generate a toolbar for them at all.  Also, I just realized that your scaling tools, that I have used before, aren't available anymore, yet the script files are exactly where they were before.

Maybe I'm doing something wrong here.

P.S.

When I try to run the script for reducing the materialIDs, I get this error...

[FoaS_XC]

You have to select to the objects to which the material you are condensing are assigned to.

As far as the scripts? I'm not sure to tell you. I tend to just run them directly from the file whenever I need them. Otherwise you can drag and drop the script onto the toolbar. They are listed under the category "Drag and Drop" in the Customize User Interface. If you give me a bit I'll make proper Macroscripts out of them, this way you can just add them a toolbar and not have to worry any longer.

[Centurus]

Na, it's cool.  I didn't know you gotta relocate them each time.  Now that I know, I think I'll be ok.  I'm reinstalling both MAX 5 and MAX 9 again right now.  Just in case.

[Centurus]

Ok, now for some reason the Split Edges script won't work.

[FoaS_XC]

Can you be a bit more specific?

[Centurus]

Attached is the error I get when trying to run it.

[FoaS_XC]

Hang on a sec, let me look into my script.

[FoaS_XC]

I can't seem to find the cause of the problem, but I'm coding up an alternative as we speak.

better yet, I found another script that did work with your model.

Code: [Select]

theEP = selection[1].baseobject --get the base object of the selected object

----------Define edge list of all non open edges in object
edgeCount = polyOp.getNumEdges theEP --edges total
openEdgesBitArray = polyOp.getOpenEdges theEP-- all open edges as bitArray
edgeCount
edgeSelArray = #()

k = 1
for i = 1 to edgeCount do
if openEdgesBitArray[i] == false then
(
edgeSelArray[k] = i
k = k + 1
)

HardEdgesArray = #()

sg_bin_array = #{}

sg_bin2_array = #{}

--edgeSelArray
--edgeSelArray.count


-------- functions for converting decimal value to binary
fn dec2bin1 deci =
(
if deci != undefined then
(
dec2bin = ""
deciT = 0.0
s = ""
ost = 0
do
(
deciT = deci / 2
ost = deci - (deciT as integer * 2)
deci = deciT as integer
s = (ost as integer) as string + s
)
while (deci as integer) != 0
dec2bin = s
)
)

fn dec2bin2 deci =
(
if deci != undefined then
(
dec2bin = ""
deciT = 0.0
s = ""
ost = 0
do
(
deciT = deci / 2
ost = deci - (deciT as integer * 2)
deci = deciT as integer
s = (ost as integer) as string + s
)
while (deci as integer) != 0
dec2bin = s
)
)


FOR J = 1 to edgeSelArray.count do --GLOBAL LOOP check around all edges for hardness
(


polys = polyOp.getEdgeFaces theEP edgeSelArray[J] --get polys of selected edge

--polys

sg = polyOp.getFaceSmoothGroup theEP polys[1] --get smoothing groups from poly 1 as decimal
sg_bin = dec2bin1 sg -- and convert to binary

---------adding to string neccesery 0`s
sg_bin_str = sg_bin as string --convert binary smoothing groups to string
while sg_bin_str.count <= 31 do sg_bin_str = "0" + sg_bin_str


---------2nd poly, the same opertaions
sg2 = polyOp.getFaceSmoothGroup theEP polys[2] --get smoothing groups from poly 2 as decimal
sg_bin2 = dec2bin2 sg2 -- and convert to binary

---------adding to string neccesery 0`s
sg_bin2_str = sg_bin2 as string  --convert binary smoothing groups to string
while sg_bin2_str.count <= 31 do sg_bin2_str = "0" + sg_bin2_str

--sg_bin_str
--sg_bin2_str

---------making 2 bit arrays from strings
for v = 1 to 32 do
(
if sg_bin_str[v] == "1" then sg_bin_array[v] = true else sg_bin_array[v] = false
if sg_bin2_str[v] == "1" then sg_bin2_array[v] = true else sg_bin2_array[v] = false
)

--------comparison of 2 polys by having the same smoothing groups or not
sg_bin_dif_array = #{}
sg_bin_dif_array = sg_bin_array * sg_bin2_array
hardness = false

--exclude polys with the same normal meens it havn't hard edge visible
nor1 = polyOp.getFaceNormal theEP polys[1] --find poly's normals
nor2 = polyOp.getFaceNormal theEP polys[2]

nor1.x = abs (nor1.x * 10000000) as integer
nor1.y = abs (nor1.y * 10000000) as integer
nor1.z = abs (nor1.z * 10000000) as integer

nor2.x = abs (nor2.x * 10000000) as integer
nor2.y = abs (nor2.y * 10000000) as integer
nor2.z = abs (nor2.z * 10000000) as integer

for n = 1 to sg_bin_dif_array.count do
if sg_bin_dif_array[n] != true then hardness = true
else
(
hardness = false
exit
)

if hardness == true then
if nor1 != nor2 then append  HardEdgesArray edgeSelArray[J]
--if hardness == true then append  HardEdgesArray edgeSelArray[J]
-- break()

)-- GLOBAL LOOP END

polyOp.setEdgeSelection theEp HardEdgesArray --Selecting all hard edges
polyOp.SplitEdges theEP HardEdgesArray

Just create a new script, copy this into it, and run it.

BE AWARE. on the front of your nacelles, in those little square cutouts, you have some duplicate verts.

[Centurus]

Odd, I had spent over 2 hours on the nacelle cutouts to make sure there were no duplicate verts.  I'll double check, but I'm positive there aren't duplicate verts.

[FoaS_XC]

There should only be 6 edges here, yet I have 12 selected. It is like that on each cutout. If you scale the model to be pretty big, reset the transform, then do a really small weld with all verts selected, thats a pretty sure way to get rid of any duplicate verts, but there is always the potential for a screwup, naturally.

[Centurus]

Must not have saved it the last time.  I fixed it now.

[Centurus]

I went over the entire mesh again, double checking all verts.  As far as I can tell, no duplicates.  However, even that new script isn't working.  Keeps generating the same kind of errors, but on different lines.  Why, I don't know.

Also, I can't seem to open the BFF file in MAX 5.

[Centurus]

This is what I get when I try and run the script in MAX 5.

[Centurus]

Ok, got it imported, but no dice.  The model is still splitting itself apart at the seems, making duplicate verts.  For example, on the rim of the saucer, where there would normally only be 2 verts, there are now 4.

I don't know why this is happening.

[Centurus]

Ok, unless I'm a unique case, I think I might have figured it out.  I decided to look at a few models made by other people, namely WZ and FoaS, cause theirs were the most readily available on my computer, and I discovered something.

While concentrating on one edge of the saucer of the ships from both respective modelers, I'm noticing duplicate verts as well, in the same manner as my Demphir, which by the way, the smoothing is intact now in SFC format.

I'm thinking maybe this is how the models are supposed to be.

[FoaS_XC]

Don't use grouping what so ever. Just don't use it. I imagine this is why you are getting the error in BFF as well as the split smoothing scripts. Better to attach a model into a single editable poly. I don't know why they still implement it in max, but it screws with everything. Re-export the scene using BFF After you've ungrouped the mesh. It should reimport now.

Split mesh is duplicating verts on edges that are non-smoothed. This is because if you were to use a totally welded model, SFC will smooth the entire thing and ignore your smoothing groups.

[Centurus]

Don't use grouping what so ever. Just don't use it. I imagine this is why you are getting the error in BFF as well as the split smoothing scripts. Better to attach a model into a single editable poly. I don't know why they still implement it in max, but it screws with everything. Re-export the scene using BFF After you've ungrouped the mesh. It should reimport now.

Split mesh is duplicating verts on edges that are non-smoothed. This is because if you were to use a totally welded model, SFC will smooth the entire thing and ignore your smoothing groups.

I realized grouping was causing a few problems, so in my last few attempts I've ungrouped the components.  However, even without the groups, and the entire mesh joined as a single object, I still get the script errors.