Topic: Moonbase by 2020

[Nemesis]

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Those initial surveyor bots will pave the way for the construction of the unmanned moon base near the lunar south pole, which the robots will construct for themselves. That base will be solar powered and provide a working/living space future robot colonizers, as well as -- presumably -- a jumping off point for future human moon dwellers.

[stoneyface]

i read this today and leave it to the japanese to approach a problem from a completely different and unique perspective. genius

[Nemesis]

I've been wondering for years why no one used remote control systems on the moon.  Remote surveyors, miners and construction.  Start small and build up.  Don't send the people until the habitats and equipment are built.  It might take some legislating to allow violating patents and designs but that could be done.

[marstone]

I've been wondering for years why no one used remote control systems on the moon.  Remote surveyors, miners and construction.  Start small and build up.  Don't send the people until the habitats and equipment are built.  It might take some legislating to allow violating patents and designs but that could be done.

I agree, have thought of this years ago.  Figured it might be cool to send up a few robots that can mark off an area of land and then you file a claim for the land.  The robots could upgrade the area for future use, and it would be your property.

[Kreeargh]

I've been wondering for years why no one used remote control systems on the moon.  Remote surveyors, miners and construction.  Start small and build up.  Don't send the people until the habitats and equipment are built.  It might take some legislating to allow violating patents and designs but that could be done.

I agree, have thought of this years ago.  Figured it might be cool to send up a few robots that can mark off an area of land and then you file a claim for the land.  The robots could upgrade the area for future use, and it would be your property.

Whatever happens just dont split the moon in 1/2 drilling and kill us all . I dont want my great gandchildren to evolve back to --- because of any greed or stupidity.

[Capt. Mike]

Firstly, using remotes is fine, except for the delay in commands..1.5 seconds there, response, 1.5 seconds back..this can be serious in an emergency, i.e. operator sees rock starting to fall (from remote camera) on robot, wants to tell it to move left away from rock, the rock has already been falling for 1.5 seconds, response time of operator, sends message to robot, robot responds, another 1.5 seconds to see if it worked

As to splitting the moon in half..shouldn't matter as the mass is still there, just in smaller pieces

Mike

[Javora]

Firstly, using remotes is fine, except for the delay in commands..1.5 seconds there, response, 1.5 seconds back..this can be serious in an emergency, i.e. operator sees rock starting to fall (from remote camera) on robot, wants to tell it to move left away from rock, the rock has already been falling for 1.5 seconds, response time of operator, sends message to robot, robot responds, another 1.5 seconds to see if it worked

As to splitting the moon in half..shouldn't matter as the mass is still there, just in smaller pieces

Mike

Anyone remember that cartoon series where everyone had mutated because a comet somehow broke the moon in half??!?  Funny stuff.  Robots would make more sense then having people on the moon, not having to store oxygen alone would be huge.  Besides when the intelligent virus that can infect our brains and take control of our bodies is set loose because of those robots, the virus won't have anyone living to infect.  Hmmm, what book was that from again.

[marstone]

I would prefer an self controlled robot you send objectives or upload new programming to. Solves the delay problem.

[Capt_Bearslayer_XC]

If we could just get NASA out of the way, we might already be doing it already....

[Nemesis]

If we could just get NASA out of the way, we might already be doing it already....

I've been thinking for some time that NASA needs to be broken up.  Make NASA only operate the launch and tracking facilities. 

Other organizations created out of the current NASA would design build and operate the actual space craft and launch vehicles.  That way if one branch goes down a dead end another branch could "out compete it" and accomplish things.  Each branch with its own budget and goals.   Even private firms could get involved.  If a private company (think SpaceX for example) had a better or cheaper vehicle NASA wouldn't be involved in selecting it or not, the space craft branch or company would make the choice of which launch vehicle they wanted to use, a private one or the government sponsored one.

Ideally over time government funded operations would move further and further out with private firms handling the closer missions much as many telecom satellites are now private rather than purely government as they were early on. 

[Nemesis]

Firstly, using remotes is fine, except for the delay in commands..1.5 seconds there, response, 1.5 seconds back..this can be serious in an emergency, i.e. operator sees rock starting to fall (from remote camera) on robot, wants to tell it to move left away from rock, the rock has already been falling for 1.5 seconds, response time of operator, sends message to robot, robot responds, another 1.5 seconds to see if it worked

Mike

I would prefer an self controlled robot you send objectives or upload new programming to. Solves the delay problem.

The moon is close enough for human control.  It gives the opportunity for more intelligent use of the machinery.  There is no reason that it can't be combined with automation though.  I believe that this has already been demonstrated.  The equipment could be tested on Earth by instituting an artificial delay.

Some examples of automation:

1/ The rock fall mentioned above, the local machine identifies it and moves out of the way over riding the remote control.

2/ Retracing known routes.  A vehicle might be best kept in a heated base over the lunar night (possibly undergoing maintenance and resupply under control from Earth), it could be sent back to base under an autopilot retracing the approved route.  Similarly once dawn arrived it could return to its work site the same way.

3/ Doing something routine (materials processing or assembly) using already proven methods.

With the human in remote control things requiring judgment and intelligence in reaction to unpredictable elements can be handled so long as they don't require instant response.  Imagine for example a human controlled excavator and a robot one each encounters a "fossil" the human can recognize it and stop (with the time delay) the robot will keep digging and the fossil will be destroyed.

Once things are far enough advanced (basic manned base built and magnetic catapult for space launches) some humans could arrive to control things more fully but even there they would likely stay in the base most of the time operating equipment remotely that needs both intelligence and short reaction times.  In such a case you would have 4 classes of action, autonomous machines, Earth personnel controlled machines, Lunar personnel controlled machines and direct operation by the human Lunar staff (ie driving not remote controlling a crawler).

Consider how remote operation of equipment can be useful here on Earth.  Surgery where the expert surgeon may be on another continent and the local non expert supporting him.  Mining equipment operated from the surface, air mixtures don't need to be breathable let alone explosive.  Pipe repair from the inside (repair the water mains without tearing up your street).  For some a time delay would be disastrous other would be quite viable. 

[Capt_Bearslayer_XC]

If we could just get NASA out of the way, we might already be doing it already....

I've been thinking for some time that NASA needs to be broken up.  Make NASA only operate the launch and tracking facilities. 

Other organizations created out of the current NASA would design build and operate the actual space craft and launch vehicles.  That way if one branch goes down a dead end another branch could "out compete it" and accomplish things.  Each branch with its own budget and goals.   Even private firms could get involved.  If a private company (think SpaceX for example) had a better or cheaper vehicle NASA wouldn't be involved in selecting it or not, the space craft branch or company would make the choice of which launch vehicle they wanted to use, a private one or the government sponsored one.

Ideally over time government funded operations would move further and further out with private firms handling the closer missions much as many telecom satellites are now private rather than purely government as they were early on. 

I have long seen NASA as more of a hindrance rather than a help to human space travel.  It is long past time that they took on a more FAA style role and let people who are willing to risk their lives and money on REALLY advancing space travel.

[Kreeargh]

Firstly, using remotes is fine, except for the delay in commands..1.5 seconds there, response, 1.5 seconds back..this can be serious in an emergency, i.e. operator sees rock starting to fall (from remote camera) on robot, wants to tell it to move left away from rock, the rock has already been falling for 1.5 seconds, response time of operator, sends message to robot, robot responds, another 1.5 seconds to see if it worked

As to splitting the moon in half..shouldn't matter as the mass is still there, just in smaller pieces

Mike

Anyone remember that cartoon series where everyone had mutated because a comet somehow broke the moon in half??!?  Funny stuff.  Robots would make more sense then having people on the moon, not having to store oxygen alone would be huge.  Besides when the intelligent virus that can infect our brains and take control of our bodies is set loose because of those robots, the virus won't have anyone living to infect.  Hmmm, what book was that from again.

Hg wells : time machine  its possable.

[stoneyface]

i would agree that nasa has long been a hindrance than a help in space exploration. they are stuck with gov't bureaucracy and red tape. they are very sluggish to new ideas and their standards for it's employees is stuck in the 1950's. they are absolutely against civilians in space and any number of other things i could mention...

time for something new. thank you nasa for your efforts to this point and for starting the space program, but it is time for something new fresh and different.

[Kreeargh]

Its time for the public to build their own Enterprise damn the goverment and its rules. Each time i watch the movie Astronuat farmer  {spelling} the red tape pisses me off more. Every time you look around there is a LAW or some damn rule preventing the public from doing anything. Have to buy a licence or get a permit to do anything! Only filthy rich get to have any plans yet alone get something going.  I bet if every Trek fan was to support 10$ to build the damn thing a real {space worthy hull atleast} would exist if it wasnt for red tape and bull.  Moon base we all are gona be taxed up the ass for a tent that costs 45 billion$ and NO ONE but a select 50 will get to visit. YA red tape. 

[NJAntman]

NASA is too f*cked up to pull off anything practical because Congress controls the money, therefore based on which way the political winds flow approval is based on which pockets will get filled the quickest with the most taxpayer dollars.

Seperate NASA's funding from the ass-hats in Congress and the leech lobbyists and NASA may be able to push out some good ideas and products.

Are they even allowed to collect royalties from their spin-off technologies? 

[Kreeargh]

NASA is too f*cked up to pull off anything practical because Congress controls the money, therefore based on which way the political winds flow approval is based on which pockets will get filled the quickest with the most taxpayer dollars.

Seperate NASA's funding from the ass-hats in Congress and the leech lobbyists and NASA may be able to push out some good ideas and products.

Are they even allowed to collect royalties from their spin-off technologies?

You would think Tang and velcro would get some but looks like not .

[marstone]

not to mention the IC chip.  But I would agree, if NASA would get a steady budget instead of being increased and cut like a money tide.  They might be able to work on long term projects.  It might be good if they were to back up to the status of the FAA for space.  Then private companies could work on space projects, and rent time on the launch pads.

[FRA.E.Kehakoul_XC]

Sorry but probably another pipe dream,i still remember my enthusiasm till into the late eighties when i realized that the Nasa replica of the space shuttle standing on my Computer,will be the only space lifting vehicle within my relevant years,that it is made  for leo(LowEarth Orbit) not for the moon and the best we could hope for  would be an approximation of the space station that was already envisioned by von Braun .
Moon?? haha to believe  that they pull that off after all those wasted years,... boarders onto naive art , to be exact the painting style..and how reality is perceived there.
No lets be really heretic, Mars is the real deal ,i say and said in Space engineer circles before,we got a radiation problem, and that  issue will not fade into  nothing by itself.
For a few months now i hear for the first time that this problem is even realized as being a real problem,talking about docus and other public sources.
I know that people  are out there contemplating the issue but they are few
.I Read a Technical paper a few years ago about a Magneto plasma shielding approach,not fiction but real hard science quite advanced in design and concept.
But at that time you would have had trouble finding enough people believing or better see the necessity.
Our high valued forum dwellers excluded , as i am quite sure most of us here are space nuts:),and know of course that shades are a must!!
Anyways  in case you all didn't notice the planet is  financially collapsing.

 We are in a  Cultural phase many high cultures didn't survive even those who could calculate,...and ours, and i know its tempting to believe we could, i mean i am typing on a computer right??,...but as a matter of fact we cant either ,.. because if we could  our mathematicians surely had found out that the  mathematical base of our economy structure is, to be  expressed politely , faulty if not an outright scam.
And will lead to collapse,so the window for becoming a sentient inter solar spacefareing race.. poof just went boom.
And damned we hadn't even time to find out if any other antique culture on our planet even made it off the same, i mean the moon obviously.,and talk about the Atlantiaaaaans  hahaha .no seriously.

Earth had plenty of time to repeat this  whats  happening with us,us contemporary earthlings without the possibility for those fictitious?? cultures to even realize that they lived on the same planet at one time in space time .

Btw the moon would be the place to find antique relics with his  for billion of years unchanged topographic patterns.

But if you talk to the no space folks they don't see the reason to spend this money,.. even people who work  for nasa are eventually in a situation where their own family doesn't get it,... believe it or not,. but i know from  first hand. and its just sad.
Anyways my weightless 2 cents..

[stoneyface]

again i would like to point out http://www.dynaverse.net/forum/index.php/topic,163390237.0.html since my XC brother has pointed out the financial issues at hand. it is very valid. this may be a collapse of the economy that we may not recover from...

[marstone]

Well, we could recover alright if the governments would stop trying to bail out political friends and let them die peacefully.  Use the money to keep the strong going.

I know I am sad, was looking at buying a Chevy Volt when they came out.  But will not buy a car from the Government Motor Company.  It is not their job to have 60% stock in a company.  So have to wait to see if they get bought back out, but since they put in the board members I doubt that will happen.

As for private companies getting into space.  It should be possible, we have a few with pockets deep anough looking at it.  They have to also weight the ways to make it pay first.  Just building the stuff isn't anough for private companies, they need a way to try and get the money back, unlike Governments.