Topic: Fed strategies needed

[Roychipoqua_Mace]

It's been a while, but when I have some free time soon, I'm thinking that I'd like to compile another tactics guide. The Feds have a few guides, but they aren't all that comprehensive, so I think they should be the next up.

The problem is that I'm not a real Federation pilot, so anything -- odd thoughts, links, favorite ships, anti-[insert race here] strategies, etc. -- would be very useful. Ideally, I would be organizing old posts and ideas into something central and easy-to-read rather than writing something completely new.

Thanks in advance!

[FoaS_XC]

I don't fly fed as well as I do Roms and in either case, not very well, so take it with a grain of salt.

Keep your ECM/ECCM panel open as much as you can. Keep a hair-trigger finger on pumping ECCM - any enemy worth their weight in spit will pump ECM and as soon as you match it will drop it so that you burn energy on ECCM, not realizing its got no ECM to counter.

I don't use Normal photorps unless I'm in a pinch - its either Proxies or Overloads. Proxies for standoff engagements, Overloads for the heavy hits.

Best I've got

[Roychipoqua_Mace]

I don't fly fed as well as I do Roms and in either case, not very well, so take it with a grain of salt.

Keep your ECM/ECCM panel open as much as you can. Keep a hair-trigger finger on pumping ECCM - any enemy worth their weight in spit will pump ECM and as soon as you match it will drop it so that you burn energy on ECCM, not realizing its got no ECM to counter.

I don't use Normal photorps unless I'm in a pinch - its either Proxies or Overloads. Proxies for standoff engagements, Overloads for the heavy hits.

Best I've got

Thanks, these are sound tips. I agree that Feds are difficult (IMO definitely tied for the hardest of races to fly well), and it doesn't help that there are a lot of contradicting opinions out there on all of the Fed intricacies.

[FoaS_XC]

Welcome to the most nuanced game I've ever played.

[Nemesis]

A few tips:

Your advantages:  Strong Alpha Strike.  Good all around shields.  Above average in durability.  Good power curve (but not great).  Average maneuverabilty. Faster torpedo cycling than Plasma races.

Weaknesses:  Rear firing weapons limited until upgrades arrive.  Point defense limited until ADD and DroneG arrive.  Fewer phasers than your enemies until the PhIII refit improves point defense. Slower torpedo cycling than Disruptor/Drone races.  Fewer transporters than primary opponents (Klingon and Romulan)

Photons have 4 settings, standard, overload proximity and off.  All 4 setting have their time to be used.  With multiple banks each bank may be set a different way.

Don't fire photons into an ECM shift.

Power management is VITAL.  If you don't have your priorities straight you can find yourself unable to power crucial functions.

Speed is life. 

Your primary opponents will be Klingon and Romulan, their ships are more fragile but more maneuverable.  Be prepared to take a punch to dish one out as your ship is more durable and your Alpha Strike is excellent. 

[Roychipoqua_Mace]

It seems that winning against finesse races involves getting close with overloads. Is it the same against plasma races or also Hydrans? I've been used to phaser boating and the Peel, but maybe teasing some plasma out and then closing in (and taking a bloody nose) is worth it.

Your primary opponents will be Klingon and Romulan, their ships are more fragile but more maneuverable.  Be prepared to take a punch to dish one out as your ship is more durable and your Alpha Strike is excellent.

I should have mentioned that this guide will be focused on PvP duels, so while most battles against the AI can be won by charging overloads and getting to range 2, that is very difficult against another player who knows what they're doing. Here's where it gets gritty -- choosing whether to hold the overloads vs firing at longer range and then reloading, or even cycling the tubes.

Thanks for the help.

[FPF-Paladin]

I'm rusty but I'll try to think of some pointers...

[Nemesis]

It seems that winning against finesse races involves getting close with overloads. Is it the same against plasma races or also Hydrans? I've been used to phaser boating and the Peel, but maybe teasing some plasma out and then closing in (and taking a bloody nose) is worth it.

Your primary opponents will be Klingon and Romulan, their ships are more fragile but more maneuverable.  Be prepared to take a punch to dish one out as your ship is more durable and your Alpha Strike is excellent.

I should have mentioned that this guide will be focused on PvP duels, so while most battles against the AI can be won by charging overloads and getting to range 2, that is very difficult against another player who knows what they're doing. Here's where it gets gritty -- choosing whether to hold the overloads vs firing at longer range and then reloading, or even cycling the tubes.

Thanks for the help.

In a PVP if the Fed lets the Klingon hold the distance off the relative mid range accuracy of the Disruptor combined with its rapid fire rate allows the sabre dance (aka death of a 1000 paper cuts) to wear down the Fed ship. 

If the Fed fires his full volley of Photons at mid range there is no reason left for the Klingon to stand off, close and knife fight for the 2 volleys you can get before the Photons can fire again.  In the knife fight between baseline cruisers the 9Ph 2 and 4 Disruptors especially with the excellent Klingon arcs give the advantage to the Klingon UNLESS the Fed hits with the Alpha Strike first doing significant internals.  (Note Alpha strike does not mean overloads, it is firing the maximum number of weapons).

It is to the advantage of the Fed to close in and combine the close in accuracy/damage of the photon and the relative sturdiness of the ship/shields to pummel the more fragile opponent especially if he can do it AFTER the Klingon fires his Disruptors but has not recharged them.   Done right you will take minimal damage and deal a critical pounding which will slow the Klingon allowing you to withdraw and reload for another "up close and personal" Alpha strike.

Maintaining "reserve power" to allow you to accelerate and catch the Klingon after he turns away from his oblique strike can make him think you have overloads when in fact you don't.  This in a CA leaves the ability to have an extra 8 points of power that you can use to reinforce the shield you are trying to make the opponent hit and then accelerate by that much to pound them from behind as they turn away to prepare for the next pass.

[Age]

I wouldn't use overloads to much as a Fed.They do use up a lot of power that could be used for EW.It is far easier to switch from normal to proxie.This all depends on what ships you are using.I find a lot of Fed ships CAs and BCH are underpower espeically when it come to taking on plasma.Rom pilots can chase you around in Novahawk with only Fs loaded untill they wear Fed pilot down and then switch to an S or R.They got good point defence as well as decoys to handle sps.This is where a CL comes in best as you can keep your torps loaded.

When it comes time to taking on Klingons I would say they are fair BCH could use slightly more power.I guess the best tactic is to castle at slow speeds with a tractor locked same with Lyrans but keeping slightly distance away to avoid the ESG.

I have never understood why ADB gave Fed. ships the power they did 34/36 and 41 for BCH.I would even think Klingons could use some more.

I would have to say the Diehard and Pestalence are far better at answer giving out strategies.   

[Roychipoqua_Mace]

When it comes time to taking on Klingons I would say they are fair BCH could use slightly more power.I guess the best tactic is to castle at slow speeds with a tractor locked same with Lyrans but keeping slightly distance away to avoid the ESG.

I have never understood why ADB gave Fed. ships the power they did 34/36 and 41 for BCH.I would even think Klingons could use some more.

Good point, lower than average engine power would be a good thing to note in an advantages/disadvantages list. I think they gave them less engine power than the Klingons because the classic "close and hose" tactic of the Feds is more instinctive than the Saber Dance (though I wouldn't call it easier to pull off, especially while maintaining an intact hull before reaching range 2), so it balances the natural power of a crunch race.

Good power curve (but not great). 

To relate to the lesser engine power of the Feds, is it because of ability to hold photons for half of their charging cost that gives the Feds their decent power curve?

Maintaining "reserve power" to allow you to accelerate and catch the Klingon after he turns away from his oblique strike can make him think you have overloads when in fact you don't.  This in a CA leaves the ability to have an extra 8 points of power that you can use to reinforce the shield you are trying to make the opponent hit and then accelerate by that much to pound them from behind as they turn away to prepare for the next pass.

This is interesting, I'm just wondering how it would work against a cautious Klingon. I know it's impossible to keep range 15+ all the time against a faster opponent while still wheeling around and firing the disruptors, so if I saw a Fed accelerating toward me, I would turn off the dizzies and accelerate to speed 31 (or close), firing phasers and drones only until their front shield is gone and they turn off, then back to the Saber Dance. If we can assume that the Klingon never gets closer than range 8, what options does the Federation captain have?

[Age]

When it comes time to taking on Klingons I would say they are fair BCH could use slightly more power.I guess the best tactic is to castle at slow speeds with a tractor locked same with Lyrans but keeping slightly distance away to avoid the ESG.

I have never understood why ADB gave Fed. ships the power they did 34/36 and 41 for BCH.I would even think Klingons could use some more.

Good point, lower than average engine power would be a good thing to note in an advantages/disadvantages list. I think they gave them less engine power than the Klingons because the classic "close and hose" tactic of the Feds is more instinctive than the Saber Dance (though I wouldn't call it easier to pull off, especially while maintaining an intact hull before reaching range 2), so it balances the natural power of a crunch race.

It might be good for the crunch race but there are usually 2 races Feds fight with plasma which doesn't give us whole lot of power.I would of gave Fed CAs 38 power and BCH 44 power in mid era to late/advanced.I think that when the game was designed they went with ADB board stats which is ok in the board game but PC at game speed slider 8 or 9 no way especially for new people to game like me.

[Mog]

Then you have to do what other races do and turn some of those heavy weapons off :shock horror:

[knightstorm]

Then you have to do what other races do and turn some of those heavy weapons off :shock horror:

Keep in mind, photons don't do the damage that plasma does, and lack the short charging cycle of disrupters.  In addition, fed cas can't charge them at speed 31, so turning some of them off leaves you at a huge disadvantage.

[Mog]

Bear in mind that you have one of the best phaser suites in the game - and in my experience it is phaser 1s that win games in the main.

[knightstorm]

I would tend to agree with you, but at the same time, a fed with half of its photons turned off can't really deter someone from doing an overrun.

[Nemesis]

Good power curve (but not great). 

To relate to the lesser engine power of the Feds, is it because of ability to hold photons for half of their charging cost that gives the Feds their decent power curve?

When comparing the K-D7 (37) to the F-CA (34) their power levels at first glance seem to favour the D7 but in fact do not.  The D7 has 3 extra points of power but requires those to power the extra 3 PhII.  Due to the PhII being lower damage but the same power cost it brings the two ships to parity on potential Phaser damage while still allowing the Fed better damage at range.   So the "lesser" engine power is a phantom when comparing to the Klingons.  Both of those archtypical ships have the same power left over after arming all weapons.  Some of the other races do better on power some worse (consider the Z-CS for example).

The ability to hold Photons at half cost is a significant advantage versus the Klingons as they can be fully armed and free power for ECCM and movement that the Klingons can't equal without turning off weapons or using batteries.   

[marstone]

I would tend to agree with you, but at the same time, a fed with half of its photons turned off can't really deter someone from doing an overrun.

well, with half your photons turned off (and not overloaded) you have near the same heavy weapons power as a Klingon for that punch.   With overloads on half you do rival the one punch of the Klingon at close range.  Plus the Ph-1 just gets better and better as you close in.  Only reason I would overrun a fed is after the photons were fired, the Ph-1's are nasty but a whole boat of weapons will do more damage.

[Nemesis]

It might be good for the crunch race but there are usually 2 races Feds fight with plasma which doesn't give us whole lot of power.I would of gave Fed CAs 38 power and BCH 44 power in mid era to late/advanced.I think that when the game was designed they went with ADB board stats which is ok in the board game but PC at game speed slider 8 or 9 no way especially for new people to game like me.

The creators of the game were trying for a "realistic" feel.  In reality there are always tradeoffs.  They recognized that by the time you added all the features you might desire in a  CA it would have become a BCH in size/cost while still being a CA in armaments. 

Each ship (until later eras) has its achilles heel as does each race.  Your proposal is basically "lets take away the weaknesses of the Feds and leave them only strengths.  Where is the fun in that? 

I always disliked the X-Ships as they lack the feel of trade offs - every ship is a super ship. 

[marstone]

I agree with the X-ships, I played them once in awhile in SFB, but we liked the year 168 best.  So no X-ships.  I did the X-ships in SFC also alittle, don't like them.

[FPF-Tobin Dax]

Good power curve (but not great). 

To relate to the lesser engine power of the Feds, is it because of ability to hold photons for half of their charging cost that gives the Feds their decent power curve?

When comparing the K-D7 (37) to the F-CA (34) their power levels at first glance seem to favour the D7 but in fact do not.  The D7 has 3 extra points of power but requires those to power the extra 3 PhII.  Due to the PhII being lower damage but the same power cost it brings the two ships to parity on potential Phaser damage while still allowing the Fed better damage at range.   So the "lesser" engine power is a phantom when comparing to the Klingons.  Both of those archtypical ships have the same power left over after arming all weapons.  Some of the other races do better on power some worse (consider the Z-CS for example).

The ability to hold Photons at half cost is a significant advantage versus the Klingons as they can be fully armed and free power for ECCM and movement that the Klingons can't equal without turning off weapons or using batteries.

Phaser 2 does not have lower damage. It has less range. Once in range it does the same damage as a phaser 1.

[Nemesis]

Maintaining "reserve power" to allow you to accelerate and catch the Klingon after he turns away from his oblique strike can make him think you have overloads when in fact you don't.  This in a CA leaves the ability to have an extra 8 points of power that you can use to reinforce the shield you are trying to make the opponent hit and then accelerate by that much to pound them from behind as they turn away to prepare for the next pass.

This is interesting, I'm just wondering how it would work against a cautious Klingon. I know it's impossible to keep range 15+ all the time against a faster opponent while still wheeling around and firing the disruptors, so if I saw a Fed accelerating toward me, I would turn off the dizzies and accelerate to speed 31 (or close), firing phasers and drones only until their front shield is gone and they turn off, then back to the Saber Dance. If we can assume that the Klingon never gets closer than range 8, what options does the Federation captain have?

If you are fighting a cautious Klingon then you are fighting a TOS Klingon rather than a TNG one and have added problems right there.

First you cannot know the status of the Fed photons unless you are close enough to see the charge level and that does not tell you standard or overload.  So the cautious Klingon with a slow Fed is assuming overloads and will stay out of overload range.   When doing so he reduces his damage potential.  As he turns (from an oblique approach to oblique departure) he will reveal his number 3 or 5 shield and likely if he has reinforcement it is on his 2 or 6 based on the assumption you will fire about the same time he does.  This curving turn means that he is departing at a slower speed than his actual speed.  There will also be a delay between your accelerating and his knowing the significance of it.   Once he does recognize it he has to accelerate too and likely you don't need to close by too much to make it into the next range category to improve your damage.  If he fired his PhII in the range 9-15 category and you manage to fire your PhI at 5-8 range you just hurt him more than he hurt you.  If you did it right his attack hit reinforcement and yours did not. 

One thing I often do is fire my Photons 1 bank at a time, even 1 photon at a time.  If the first bank totally misses it is often better NOT to fire the 2nd bank.  If the first bank knocks the shield down (or nearly so including your  PhI fire) the 2nd bank even with one hit is likely to do internals.  By not firing the 2nd bank at a shield where internals will not recur I maintain extra fire power for if he closes while my photons are rearming and by holding them I free up 2 points of power as well.

[Nemesis]

Phaser 2 does not have lower damage. It has less range. Once in range it does the same damage as a phaser 1.

Please recheck the weapon damage charts.  PhI maximum damage = 9.  PhII maximum damage = 6.

[marstone]

Phaser 2 does not have lower damage. It has less range. Once in range it does the same damage as a phaser 1.

Please recheck the weapon damage charts.  PhI maximum damage = 9.  PhII maximum damage = 6.

Thanks I knew it was different but didn't have my charts near me to state that. 

[Roychipoqua_Mace]

One thing I often do is fire my Photons 1 bank at a time, even 1 photon at a time.  If the first bank totally misses it is often better NOT to fire the 2nd bank.  If the first bank knocks the shield down (or nearly so including your  PhI fire) the 2nd bank even with one hit is likely to do internals.  By not firing the 2nd bank at a shield where internals will not recur I maintain extra fire power for if he closes while my photons are rearming and by holding them I free up 2 points of power as well.

I'll make a section on photon cycling then (along with tips on turning off all or half of the tubes and other power management). In the case of firing one torpedo or bank at a time, does the Fed try to maintain a safe distance from the Klink? Like Knight said, if the Fed has only half of its photons held and the phasers are probably recharging, I can see the Klingon closing in with overloads and phasers and getting a pretty good damage tradeoff with the Fed. Maybe photon cycling is something that should be used against only Klingons.

Speaking of TNG Klingons (if you mean the idea of closing in and flying aggressively), how well does that work in SFB/SFC?

[Nemesis]

I'll make a section on photon cycling then (along with tips on turning off all or half of the tubes and other power management). In the case of firing one torpedo or bank at a time, does the Fed try to maintain a safe distance from the Klink? Like Knight said, if the Fed has only half of its photons held and the phasers are probably recharging, I can see the Klingon closing in with overloads and phasers and getting a pretty good damage tradeoff with the Fed. Maybe photon cycling is something that should be used against only Klingons.

The cycling as I described it is intended for situations where you need a certain minimum impact.  Lets say for example you need to hit 3 of 4 to be useful, if the first 2 miss then there is no point in firing the next 2 in that case.  It can also be used for the Mizia effect if the shield is down or is taken down by the first shot.

Part of the goal for the Fed is to fire AFTER the Klingon and at a closer range.  That way the Klingon is hurt worse and at most gets one shot with the disruptors before the photons reload and he needs to be away.

Speaking of TNG Klingons (if you mean the idea of closing in and flying aggressively), how well does that work in SFB/SFC?

I don't like TNG Klingons so I'm rather the wrong one to ask that.  Though I have done aggressive attacks when the circumstances favoured it.

In the Klingon - Fed battle the ideal for the Klingon is that the Fed fires early at a less than optimum range and thus opens up a window for the Klingon to get in close and knife fight.  Lets say for example the Fed thinks you are just ducking in to range 8 then pulling out before he can get his overloads off and he fires first.  The Klingon then can close in to range 0 if he wants as the Fed has nothing to stop him.   The Klingon then can fire all his phasers and disruptors at close and heavily damaging range not once but twice before the Feds photons cycle and the Fed will have to use some of his phasers to stop the drones increasing the temporarty armament disparity.

This ideal battle is why the Fed needs to hold photons in reserve to induce the Klingon to either maintain range while the Fed waits for a mistake to take advantage of of to punish the Klingon who thinks it an opening to close in for.  If you think the Klingon is going to close when the first two photons are fired, overloading the 2nd pair is a good option especially if they are just being held and were armed earlier. 

The sabre dance evolved not just to attack the Feds but to DEFEND the Klingon.  The disruptor is better at those intermediate ranges than the photons and the reverse is true at close ranges.  The Photon therefore functions as a "stand off" weapon when the two fight.  However the Klingons can fight effectively though slowly at that range and when the Photons have been fired the Klingons come in to "play" before they can rearm.  The large Phaser suite allows a very effective Mizia attack sequence.

[FPF-Tobin Dax]

Phaser 2 does not have lower damage. It has less range. Once in range it does the same damage as a phaser 1.

Please recheck the weapon damage charts.  PhI maximum damage = 9.  PhII maximum damage = 6.

I sit corrected.......

[Age]

It might be good for the crunch race but there are usually 2 races Feds fight with plasma which doesn't give us whole lot of power.I would of gave Fed CAs 38 power and BCH 44 power in mid era to late/advanced.I think that when the game was designed they went with ADB board stats which is ok in the board game but PC at game speed slider 8 or 9 no way especially for new people to game like me.

The creators of the game were trying for a "realistic" feel.  In reality there are always tradeoffs.  They recognized that by the time you added all the features you might desire in a  CA it would have become a BCH in size/cost while still being a CA in armaments. 

Each ship (until later eras) has its achilles heel as does each race.  Your proposal is basically "lets take away the weaknesses of the Feds and leave them only strengths.  Where is the fun in that? 

I always disliked the X-Ships as they lack the feel of trade offs - every ship is a super ship. 

I was more or less referring to the ships with 34 to 36 power at stardate 2275 when the F-CB come out it has 38 power so why not give all Fed CAs that power.

I am referring to Fed vs Roms as they can go around with Fs loaded as full speed and still recharge them.i have done some simulated tests on that and a Novahawk can do this as well as most Rom. CAs.I am not talking about X-ships.The only way a Fed pilot can beat a Rom is long drawn out phaser fight but Roms still got plasma.This is an area I am weak in talking stock op+4.0.I am referring to the standard CA most get being that of CC+.

Hi Mog yes I know we can turn off some of our systems but it would be nice to have alteast 2 photons at our disposal.

[Nemesis]

Another Fed advantage are the extra labs.  Those labs give higher shield regeneration than most other races. 

When watching ECM don't just adjust your ECCM to cancel out the shift of your enemy MONITOR it.  One particular battle I was in I kept cranking the ECM to get that 1 point shift and my opponent kept cranking the ECCM to match me.  Once we were at 6 I waited a couple of battle passes and turned it to 0, he didn't notice.  It gave my ship a 10% power advantage as each ship had in the neighbourhood of 60 points of power.  Extra shield reinforcement or speed for me gave me a decided edge.

[Age]

I can see that being an advantage vs Klinks but not so much Roms as they don't have direct fire weapon unlike Klinks and Feds do.They can keep their ecm up to 6 or match yours.when pahaser boating you hardly need your ew on maybe 1 point of ecm.

[Nemesis]

I was more or less referring to the ships with 34 to 36 power at stardate 2275 when the F-CB come out it has 38 power so why not give all Fed CAs that power.

As of what year?  The F-CA gets incremental upgrades and the year 2275 is the year the F-CAI upgrade is in place with that power level and other enhancements.   Don't forget the F-CB is a CC replacement and the CA of the same era is not supposed to be more powerful.  So just what is your complaint again?

I am referring to Fed vs Roms as they can go around with Fs loaded as full speed and still recharge them.i have done some simulated tests on that and a Novahawk can do this as well as most Rom. CAs.I am not talking about X-ships.The only way a Fed pilot can beat a Rom is long drawn out phaser fight but Roms still got plasma.This is an area I am weak in talking stock op+4.0.I am referring to the standard CA most get being that of CC+.

So the only way for a Fed to beat a Rom is with a long drawn out phaser fight?  Welcome to the Klingon world of the sabre dance against the Federation.   

The Novahawk is the contemporary and equivalent of the F-CB mentioned above.  How are its Pl-S loaded when running at speed 31?  At least the CBs 10 Phaser I have the same range as the NovaHawks 7 Phaser I.  You also get the 2 drone racks to soak up his power or smack him with a scatterpack or 2.  Your CB also has more labs for better shield regeneration.

Link to DieHard discussing F-CB vs Novahawk

Hi Mog yes I know we can turn off some of our systems but it would be nice to have alteast 2 photons at our disposal.

As shown earlier the D7 has no more power available after charging all weapons and doesn't get a power advantage by "holding" any of them.  So why does the Fed need more power than the Klingons in their more fragile ships?

[Nemesis]

I can see that being an advantage vs Klinks but not so much Roms as they don't have direct fire weapon unlike Klinks and Feds do.They can keep their ecm up to 6 or match yours.when pahaser boating you hardly need your ew on maybe 1 point of ecm.

The point wasn't to use that trick but to avoid having it used against you as the Feds are especially vulnerable to ECM.  In that particular battle I was Hydran vs a Lyran (Tribble actually). 

[Roychipoqua_Mace]

When watching ECM don't just adjust your ECCM to cancel out the shift of your enemy MONITOR it.  One particular battle I was in I kept cranking the ECM to get that 1 point shift and my opponent kept cranking the ECCM to match me.  Once we were at 6 I waited a couple of battle passes and turned it to 0, he didn't notice.  It gave my ship a 10% power advantage as each ship had in the neighbourhood of 60 points of power.  Extra shield reinforcement or speed for me gave me a decided edge.

I love when this happens. I like to keep the EW panel at on the hotkey [h] (I forget if it's default or custom) and have it always up unless I need to change with the weapon settings. Also, the reverse is nice. For example, you have 4 ECM and are facing a Fed with 4 ECCM and they just manage to enter range 8 . . . there is no time to charge up 5 ECM, but you know they're going to fire, so you activate EM. If you're lucky, they blow everything and miss.

I was more or less referring to the ships with 34 to 36 power at stardate 2275 when the F-CB come out it has 38 power so why not give all Fed CAs that power.

I am referring to Fed vs Roms as they can go around with Fs loaded as full speed and still recharge them.i have done some simulated tests on that and a Novahawk can do this as well as most Rom. CAs.I am not talking about X-ships.The only way a Fed pilot can beat a Rom is long drawn out phaser fight but Roms still got plasma.This is an area I am weak in talking stock op+4.0.I am referring to the standard CA most get being that of CC+.
[/quote]

I think the reason that even the fully refitted CA/CC line have only 36 power is because they just can't fit any more systems in. By the time the ship is expanded and extra power is added, you have a ship the size of the CB (in SFB history, I don't know if the actual hull of the CC was expanded to make the CB, but even if it wasn't, the added power would at least give you the cost of a CB/CCH).

Although the Novahawk is a beefed up New Series CC, it is really point-wise equal to other races' BCHs, and I think the F-BCF is a good match for it. If we are flying the CC+ (149) and CB (165), I think some more balanced Romulan opponents are some of the KR series (K7RB at 166) . . . and I can't really think of too many Romulans around 150, so if that is the max BPV, it should have a decent advantage over ships like the SPA+/SPL+. That's if we say that the BPV system is perfectly balanced . . . ha!

[Nemesis]

The F-CB has a worse power curve than the F-CA.  Surprised?  The  F-CB gains 4 point of power true.  It also gains 4 PhI and 2 PhIII which between them use 5 point of power.  So when charging all weapons it is SLOWER than the F-CA.

[Nemesis]

Also, the reverse is nice. For example, you have 4 ECM and are facing a Fed with 4 ECCM and they just manage to enter range 8 . . . there is no time to charge up 5 ECM, but you know they're going to fire, so you activate EM. If you're lucky, they blow everything and miss.

Very close to a trick I use as Romulan.  Fire pseudo, activate cloak.  They can't see the early stages of the cloak but it does have some affect.  Enough to make the photon hit rate drop dramatically.  Decloak at point blank range fire real plasma then single fire other weapons for Mizia effect (note the longer range for a Plasma to be "point blank").  That was part of the ruse I used to take down a F-CA with a R-WB . 

[Roychipoqua_Mace]

Nemesis, I missed your link to the "R-NHK vs F-CB" thread originally, but it has a lot of good stuff like this:

You don't have to do 31 if you knock his front down. A good proxy shot on his #1 will set you up for the running battle.

After he starts taking internals through the front you can slow a tad to let your capacitor charge, as he will be forced into an oblique pursuit.

If he keeps giving you the down front, use mines and drones to make him pay.

Maybe a full proxy barrage at range 30 on the forward shield to start, recharge, and another barrage at range 12.9, followed by phaser-1s. Hopefully by the time the Rommie noticed the Fed plan, it would be too late.

[Nemesis]

A link to an old tactics thread.

[Age]

I was more or less referring to the ships with 34 to 36 power at stardate 2275 when the F-CB come out it has 38 power so why not give all Fed CAs that power.

As of what year?  The F-CA gets incremental upgrades and the year 2275 is the year the F-CAI upgrade is in place with that power level and other enhancements.   Don't forget the F-CB is a CC replacement and the CA of the same era is not supposed to be more powerful.  So just what is your complaint again?

I guess I am looking at form FireSouls OP+ Shiplist which F-CAR+R and F-CCR is refitted with extra dones as why the power isn't increased as well both of these ship are refitted in 2275.   

I am referring to Fed vs Roms as they can go around with Fs loaded as full speed and still recharge them.i have done some simulated tests on that and a Novahawk can do this as well as most Rom. CAs.I am not talking about X-ships.The only way a Fed pilot can beat a Rom is long drawn out phaser fight but Roms still got plasma.This is an area I am weak in talking stock op+4.0.I am referring to the standard CA most get being that of CC+.

So the only way for a Fed to beat a Rom is with a long drawn out phaser fight?  Welcome to the Klingon world of the sabre dance against the Federation.   

The Novahawk is the contemporary and equivalent of the F-CB mentioned above.  How are its Pl-S loaded when running at speed 31?  At least the CBs 10 Phaser I have the same range as the NovaHawks 7 Phaser I.  You also get the 2 drone racks to soak up his power or smack him with a scatterpack or 2.  Your CB also has more labs for better shield regeneration.

What about Novahawk just using F-tops which can be loaded and held as speeds 31.

Link to DieHard discussing F-CB vs Novahawk

Hi Mog yes I know we can turn off some of our systems but it would be nice to have alteast 2 photons at our disposal.

As shown earlier the D7 has no more power available after charging all weapons and doesn't get a power advantage by "holding" any of them.  So why does the Fed need more power than the Klingons in their more fragile ships?

I am not saying they need more power than the Klingon infact I said I even think the Klingons could use more power as well.

Orginally Posted by Nemesis
The F-CB has a worse power curve than the F-CA.  Surprised?  The  F-CB gains 4 point of power true.  It also gains 4 PhI and 2 PhIII which between them use 5 point of power.  So when charging all weapons it is SLOWER than the F-CA.

I wouldn't say that and I only use phaser 1 and keep the 3 on defence if this were true you couldn't even charge photons at speeds of 25 with an F-CA which an F-CB. can

[FPF-DieHard]

Wow -  I can't believe that epic CB v NHK thread is 5 years old.  The tactics discussed in that are still valid.

[Roychipoqua_Mace]

Wow -  I can't believe that epic CB v NHK thread is 5 years old.  The tactics discussed in that are still valid.

Yeah, that nice thread is exactly the kind of thing I am looking for (much easier and more valid/playtested to compile tips from the success of past pilots than try to write something completely new). Do you know if there is a similar thread for Feds vs. other races, especially Klinks? Maybe lurking on the SFB legacy board might turn some things up . . .

[Nemesis]

Do you know if there is a similar thread for Feds vs. other races, especially Klinks?

Best advice for the Feddies facing a Klingon - Surrender.

[FPF-DieHard]

Wow -  I can't believe that epic CB v NHK thread is 5 years old.  The tactics discussed in that are still valid.

Yeah, that nice thread is exactly the kind of thing I am looking for (much easier and more valid/playtested to compile tips from the success of past pilots than try to write something completely new). Do you know if there is a similar thread for Feds vs. other races, especially Klinks? Maybe lurking on the SFB legacy board might turn some things up . . .

The SFC2.net Fed forums will have stuff.  Keep in mind, there is TONS of trash talk there as it was a private board.   None of the film links I posted will work though as my web server's been out of action for years.

CB versus D7W/DWL isn't nearly as close of a contest as the NHK, advantage definitely goes to the the Fed in this one.  Same with the CC+/D7L.  The fed strategy is to get to range 8.9 and roll a lot of 1s with overloaded torps, the Klink's is to not let this happen.  After a few years developing tactics I stopped straight-up castling as it was just plain boring.  Below was my 'text book approach that almost always worked.

Assuming a year of 2275ish, any later these ships start to get long int he tooth and the same tactics more or less work for the CC+/D7L fights, I'd got between speed 8-12 slowly making my way towards the kilnk.   The Klink would be going faster, not holding tring to get the range 9-15 shot, I'd let them but i'd control what shield they hit.   After they fired I'd turn towards them and dump all my phasers on their rear shield and about range 15, and turn away.  the klink would then got a shot at my rear shields which would regen fast than his, I'd turn back in and do the same.   Phasers at 15 on his butt.  Two to three passes and the Klink's rear would be down.

With a downed rear-shield his maneuvering options are more limited and you WILL be able get a, 8.9 photon shot off unless he's going speed 31 and going full defensive.  The Klink not pressing the attack works in your favor as your shields come back quicker.  Once you fire overloads at him, 2-3 will hit at range 8.9 which will crack a shield and cause internals, follo up with your phasers.   Turn away and let him beat on you a little bit, you're tough and can take a hit.  If he presses too hard, T-bombs are your friend especially on hit recently downed shield.  Eventually you'll be able to load photons again, HET into him and blow him to bits point blank.

Now different ships will require different tactics.   The above will NOT working an CLC/D5L battle.

Silly question, do people still play this game on GSA?

[FPF-DieHard]

Do you know if there is a similar thread for Feds vs. other races, especially Klinks?

Best advice for the Feddies facing a Klingon - Surrender.

Oh please, this game is too old for racial-trash talk.  In 1v1 fights the Klingons have and advantage in very few class per class match-ups.   CWLs and BCHs give the Kilnks a small advantage, and that's debatable. 

[FPF-DieHard]

The F-CB has a worse power curve than the F-CA.  Surprised?  The  F-CB gains 4 point of power true.  It also gains 4 PhI and 2 PhIII which between them use 5 point of power.  So when charging all weapons it is SLOWER than the F-CA.

I just read this - this is rubbish.  You can turn the cap-slider down to have plenty of power to charge weapons while moving.

[knightstorm]

Do you know if there is a similar thread for Feds vs. other races, especially Klinks?

Best advice for the Feddies facing a Klingon - Surrender.

Oh please, this game is too old for racial-trash talk.

When the game gets too old for that type of trash talk, its not worth playing anymore.  Besides, I don't think Nem is going to find a real fed that's willing to surrender to those smelly savages.

[Roychipoqua_Mace]

Thanks DH, that's a lot of help. I don't play on GSA as much anymore because I have to wake up earlier, but I'm going to give it a shot tonight and tomorrow. Last I heard, there were tourneys, but I haven't seen any new ones on the Gamespy Wizard calendar.

P.S. if you Feds don't want to surrender, you can always just fire proxies at range 31 and just sit there for the next two turns like the AI (and the AI's been playing for 11 years . . . it must know what it's doing).

[Nemesis]

The F-CB has a worse power curve than the F-CA.  Surprised?  The  F-CB gains 4 point of power true.  It also gains 4 PhI and 2 PhIII which between them use 5 point of power.  So when charging all weapons it is SLOWER than the F-CA.

I just read this - this is rubbish.  You can turn the cap-slider down to have plenty of power to charge weapons while moving.

By turning down the slider you reduce the fire rate of your Phasers, you can't fire all of them every turn, only some of them.  If arming ALL weapons at full rate the F-CB has less power for movement than the F-CA, that is a fact. 

[Nemesis]

Besides, I don't think Nem is going to find a real fed that's willing to surrender to those smelly savages.

Those "smelly savages" are the "Klingons" of TNG, a totally different breed, culture and attitude from the TOS Klingons and behind SFC is SFB which was based on TOS. 

Could you imagine Kor, Kang or even Koloth act like the TNG Klingons?  The TNG Klingons act more like Kzinti than Klingons. 

The TOS Klingons are disciplined, rational and do what they must to win.  The TNG Boneheads constantly break discipline out of rage or "Honour". 

[knightstorm]

Besides, I don't think Nem is going to find a real fed that's willing to surrender to those smelly savages.

Those "smelly savages" are the "Klingons" of TNG, a totally different breed, culture and attitude from the TOS Klingons and behind SFC is SFB which was based on TOS. 

Could you imagine Kor, Kang or even Koloth act like the TNG Klingons?  The TNG Klingons act more like Kzinti than Klingons. 

The TOS Klingons are disciplined, rational and do what they must to win.  The TNG Boneheads constantly break discipline out of rage or "Honour".

Klingons had a reputation for having an unpleasant odor in TOS.  Or did you forget where Chekov commented that the Enterprise would pass close enough to Klingon space to smell them.  Also, regarding Klingon honor as depicted in TNG, DS9 makes it clear that it only applies fully to other Klingons, and that the honor that is inherent with victory in foreign wars means that Klingons are more than willing to engage in underhanded tactics to win.  Furthermore, Enterprise demonstrated that Klingons are also ruthless in their treatment of conquered subject races, something which is consistent with Kor's actions on Organia.

As for imagining Kor, Kang, and Koloth as TNG Klingons,

[Nemesis]

Klingons had a reputation for having an unpleasant odor in TOS.  Or did you forget where Chekov commented that the Enterprise would pass close enough to Klingon space to smell them. 

Chekov as you recall was quite bigoted.  Everything was invented in Russia or at least improved there.  His "smell them" comment has been used to refer to other human races as well but we wouldn't take that to mean those humans really do have an unpleasant odour now would we?  It really was just a classic way to insult an enemy.  He didn't seem to find Kangs wife unpleasant smelling when he tried to rape her did he?

Also, regarding Klingon honor as depicted in TNG, DS9 makes it clear that it only applies fully to other Klingons, and that the honor that is inherent with victory in foreign wars means that Klingons are more than willing to engage in underhanded tactics to win.  Furthermore, Enterprise demonstrated that Klingons are also ruthless in their treatment of conquered subject races, something which is consistent with Kor's actions on Organia.

I have seen VERY little DS9 and can't comment on it. 

Over and over in TNG we see Klingons complaining of Starfleet officers impugning their honour (Worf especially).  Could you imagine Worf trying to act like the Klingon infiltrator on Space Station K7 or would he complain about it being dishonourable? 

I never claimed that either TOS or TNG Klingons were not ruthless in war.  I also never claimed they were not capable of being underhanded. 

Note:  I consider Enterprise to be a different timeline for reasons stated here

As for imagining Kor, Kang, and Koloth as TNG Klingons,

Haven't seen the episode but I very much doubt that the characters resembled the originals in any way beyond their names.  How do they act?  Like the ORIGINALS or like TNG boneheads?  I'm betting on boneheads. 

[knightstorm]

Chekov's attack on Mara had to do with the fact that he was not in his right mind, and had less to do with attraction, and more to do with the rage that the entity was filling him with.  Also, at one point during DS9, hostilities resume with the Klingons, and Worf ends up performing a few infiltration missions.

As for imagining Kor, Kang, and Koloth as TNG Klingons,

Haven't seen the episode but I very much doubt that the characters resembled the originals in any way beyond their names.  How do they act?  Like the ORIGINALS or like TNG boneheads?  I'm betting on boneheads.

Well, they're played by the original actors.  Although Kang's characterization is the closest to his original appearance.  The differences with the others can be explained by the fact that the episode is taking place a century after their earlier appearances, and they have changed.  The years were not kind to Kor, and by the time this takes place, he is a drunken shell of his former self.  Koloth is much more serious than he was in his previous appearance, although during the final battle, he quips to Kor that "I will not die before your thunderous bulk."  In the episode, they are fulfilling a blood oath to kill the albino, an old foe who murdered their first born sons.  Kor was the only one to survive the episode, and would make two more appearances.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ILtk-Zoj8sw

[Father Ted]

I'll make a section on photon cycling then (along with tips on turning off all or half of the tubes and other power management). In the case of firing one torpedo or bank at a time, does the Fed try to maintain a safe distance from the Klink? Like Knight said, if the Fed has only half of its photons held and the phasers are probably recharging, I can see the Klingon closing in with overloads and phasers and getting a pretty good damage tradeoff with the Fed. Maybe photon cycling is something that should be used against only Klingons.

The cycling as I described it is intended for situations where you need a certain minimum impact.  Lets say for example you need to hit 3 of 4 to be useful, if the first 2 miss then there is no point in firing the next 2 in that case.  It can also be used for the Mizia effect if the shield is down or is taken down by the first shot.

Part of the goal for the Fed is to fire AFTER the Klingon and at a closer range.  That way the Klingon is hurt worse and at most gets one shot with the disruptors before the photons reload and he needs to be away.

Speaking of TNG Klingons (if you mean the idea of closing in and flying aggressively), how well does that work in SFB/SFC?

I don't like TNG Klingons so I'm rather the wrong one to ask that.  Though I have done aggressive attacks when the circumstances favoured it.

In the Klingon - Fed battle the ideal for the Klingon is that the Fed fires early at a less than optimum range and thus opens up a window for the Klingon to get in close and knife fight.  Lets say for example the Fed thinks you are just ducking in to range 8 then pulling out before he can get his overloads off and he fires first.  The Klingon then can close in to range 0 if he wants as the Fed has nothing to stop him.   The Klingon then can fire all his phasers and disruptors at close and heavily damaging range not once but twice before the Feds photons cycle and the Fed will have to use some of his phasers to stop the drones increasing the temporarty armament disparity.

This ideal battle is why the Fed needs to hold photons in reserve to induce the Klingon to either maintain range while the Fed waits for a mistake to take advantage of of to punish the Klingon who thinks it an opening to close in for.  If you think the Klingon is going to close when the first two photons are fired, overloading the 2nd pair is a good option especially if they are just being held and were armed earlier. 

The sabre dance evolved not just to attack the Feds but to DEFEND the Klingon.  The disruptor is better at those intermediate ranges than the photons and the reverse is true at close ranges.  The Photon therefore functions as a "stand off" weapon when the two fight.  However the Klingons can fight effectively though slowly at that range and when the Photons have been fired the Klingons come in to "play" before they can rearm.  The large Phaser suite allows a very effective Mizia attack sequence.

You just made the fatal mistake: you're expecting the Federale to play by your rules. If I'm flying against you, I'll stand off the ECM/ECCM and wait for you to get in range for my OL photons. I keep the phasers on standby for the drones you'll throw at me from your ship and SP, then circle around and let my photons reload. You have to remember that except for a very few, like Kreug and Saxon, most Klinks are droners. They don't know how to survive a knife fight with a Fed or Hydran.

[Nemesis]

You just made the fatal mistake: you're expecting the Federale to play by your rules. If I'm flying against you, I'll stand off the ECM/ECCM and wait for you to get in range for my OL photons. I keep the phasers on standby for the drones you'll throw at me from your ship and SP, then circle around and let my photons reload.

If you read my original post a little more carefully you will see that I am listing goals for both sides and errors that allow your opponent to achieve those goals.  Each race/ship has its advantages and disadvantages. My post shows some of those for each side and some tactics to use your advantage against the opponents disadvantage.

You have to remember that except for a very few, like Kreug and Saxon, most Klinks are droners. They don't know how to survive a knife fight with a Fed or Hydran.

And me.  I prefer the non specialty ships.  Line and command variants F5, D6 and D7 hulls.  If I was a droner I'd fly Mirak.

[Father Ted]

And me.  I prefer the non specialty ships.  Line and command variants F5, D6 and D7 hulls.  If I was a droner I'd fly Mirak.

I prefer non-droners myself. My usual Fed campaign starts with a FFG, (no matter what J'inn tells you, avoid the Fed DD like the plague)then a CC+, followed by either a BCG(I'll come back to this one), a BCV or a CVA+. Depending on the length of the campaign, sometimes I'll trade in the CC+ for a CLC. The CLC is fun to fly, but it's not my favorite.

The BCG is(or would be if the nice fellows from Taldren would give it the logical 12 drone control it DESERVES) my favorite ship.

[knightstorm]

no matter what J'inn tells you, avoid the Fed DD like the plague

I tend to agree with you with regards to the regular DD, but I really like the DDL+.  The extra 4 energy points, and replacing 2 of the photons with F-Torps really helps to solve the ship's power issues.  The only things I dislike about it are the lack of amd, and the relatively weak shields.

[Nemesis]

I tend to agree with you with regards to the regular DD, but I really like the DDL+.  The extra 4 energy points, and replacing 2 of the photons with F-Torps really helps to solve the ship's power issues.  The only things I dislike about it are the lack of amd, and the relatively weak shields.

The AMD lack makes sense given its SFB history.  The plasma F were supplied by the Gorn and the ships were supposed to be deployed against the Romulans.  No drones, no need for AMD.

I like the DDL myself. 

[knightstorm]

The AMD lack makes sense given its SFB history.  The plasma F were supplied by the Gorn and the ships were supposed to be deployed against the Romulans.  No drones, no need for AMD.

I like the DDL myself.

SFB is the key word.  You're rarely in a position where the threat of drones doesn't hang over you in SFC.  Fortunately, this is somewhat mitigated by the in the situations where I'm likely to fly the DDL+, such as GSA matches and on the dyna before the introduction of the NCL, I'm unlikely to run into anything other than slow drones.  The weak shields are more of an annoyance for me, although the ship has a high number of labs and hull strength for its bpv which partially makes up for that as long as I avoid taking any big hits.

[Roychipoqua_Mace]

I love the pre-refit DD! But only in early era games against other ships of the period, unlike the campaign Father Ted mentioned.

The note about most Klinks being droners is interesting. I haven't had much D2 experience, but when I did play as the Klinks for a little bit the droners were definitely the easiest AI killers, so that would make sense. In GSA with slow drones like Knight says, it forces the Klingons to be more traditional, using the drones as a distraction and occasional scatterpack opportunity, but relying on phasers and disruptors.

And me.  I prefer the non specialty ships.  Line and command variants F5, D6 and D7 hulls.  If I was a droner I'd fly Mirak.

I agree about the F5 and D7 (the D7W is probably my favorite ship), they take some getting used to but are great. The D6 is good too, I just can't fly it.

[Nemesis]

You're rarely in a position where the threat of drones doesn't hang over you in SFC.

True, I've been there.  Playing as a Romulan with no Pl-D against Mirak.  Using a K-7T to test the then latest Photon adjustment that the Feds were whining about (I had no issue), ran into a player with 3 Z-DFs.  Other less extreme times. 

[FPF-DieHard]

By turning down the slider you reduce the fire rate of your Phasers, you can't fire all of them every turn, only some of them.  If arming ALL weapons at full rate the F-CB has less power for movement than the F-CA, that is a fact.

Your point of comparison is absurd, maybe in SFB but in the real time game of SFC how often do you fire every "round' anyway?   You spend more than jockeying for position, to get the "right" shot as opposed to just firing every "round."   Is the NCL superior to the CLC?   by your argument it is because it's got more weapons and the same power.

The only valid test is combat and I can tell you from literally hundred of kills in a Federation CB, I'm right.

Now - by 2280 or so the CB's lack of power does turn it into a coffin once fast drones and attrition units start showing up.  The CX fixes that making the "Connie" hull viable in end-game.  X-ships tactics are an issue for anohter conversation.

[Age]

The F-CB has a worse power curve than the F-CA.  Surprised?  The  F-CB gains 4 point of power true.  It also gains 4 PhI and 2 PhIII which between them use 5 point of power.  So when charging all weapons it is SLOWER than the F-CA.

I just read this - this is rubbish.  You can turn the cap-slider down to have plenty of power to charge weapons while moving.

By turning down the slider you reduce the fire rate of your Phasers, you can't fire all of them every turn, only some of them.  If arming ALL weapons at full rate the F-CB has less power for movement than the F-CA, that is a fact. 

Don't Lyrans turn down the capacitor of the ESG if needed against on coming missiles.I agree with DH although a NCL+ is just a good as CLC not NCL.I would also say that a CB can survive its own in advanced tech as with NCA-CC.

knightstrom we fight the flathead Klinks.

[knightstorm]

knightstrom we fight the flathead Klinks.

Age, ridgeheads, and flatheads are the same species.  In 22nd century the Klingon race was improved when a virus introduced human dna into the Klingon genome.  Unable to recognize the wondrous gift which they had received, the savages eventually found a way to reverse the process.

[FoaS_XC]

Can we not get into an argument as to trek lore? It usually turns out to be really pointless and kinda lame. Let's get back to the tactical discussions.

[Roychipoqua_Mace]

Curious -- what does "power curve" exactly mean? I've used it before from time-to-time to describe the general power efficiency of a ship. In this case, I would say that the Federation CB has a better power curve than the CA just because it has more power (and you don't have to use the power on the hungry weapons if you need it somewhere else). But if the strict definition of a power curve is the amount of energy a ship has leftover while it fully charges its weapons (100% capacitor and all heavy weapons on normal), then the CA has the better curve.

Also, does power curve have anything to do with holdable heavy weapons? Klingons can usually charge normal dizzies while flying faster than Feds charging an equal number of photons, but the Klinks won't be able to speed up after charging them, unlike the Fed. Which would have the better power curve in this example?

[FPF-DieHard]

No strict definition, but I guess it means how fast a ship can go while still loading weapons, you don't need to load everything at once thought.

Regarding overloaded disrupters the only time you'd do that is if the ship is practically parked, at the higher speeds there isn't much shield reinforcement so normals are fine.  We actually saw a lot of this in Klingon Civil War, many 3v3 battles would just be "close and hose" were we'd just fire at range 4.  Quick, brutal, but the most effective you can get.

In Fed versus Klink it's very viable to close with overs if the fed is going to park.

[Roychipoqua_Mace]

Regarding overloaded disrupters the only time you'd do that is if the ship is practically parked, at the higher speeds there isn't much shield reinforcement so normals are fine.  We actually saw a lot of this in Klingon Civil War, many 3v3 battles would just be "close and hose" were we'd just fire at range 4.  Quick, brutal, but the most effective you can get.

Ah, those race vs. race fleet fights sound like a lot of fun. I remember two years ago on Gamespy, there were a handful of stepped BPV Fed vs. Klink matches (Alliance vs. Coalition worked too), but they weren't too common.

[FoaS_XC]

the 3v3s were my first major introduction to multiplayer SFC games. (this was during the turn-based campaign beta). LOTS of fun.

[Age]

What power curve means to me is how fast you can go with charging all weapons in this case a CB can charge it normals and phasers at speed 25.The CA can not do this only around 18 with it 34 power.

Klingon ships can't go past speed 15 with over loads most line cruisers can't anyway.Fed line ships can for the most part can go past 15 with OL.This is mid.late and advanced.

[Nemesis]

What power curve means to me is how fast you can go with charging all weapons in this case a CB can charge it normals and phasers at speed 25.The CA can not do this only around 18 with it 34 power.

One of us needs to recheck our math.

F-CA Total Power 34 - Photons 8 - Phasers 6 - Shields 2 - Life Support 1 - Fire Control 1 = 16
F-CB Total Power 38 - Photons 8 - Phasers 11 - Shields 2 - Life Support 1 - Fire Control 1 = 15

[FPF-DieHard]

What power curve means to me is how fast you can go with charging all weapons in this case a CB can charge it normals and phasers at speed 25.The CA can not do this only around 18 with it 34 power.

One of us needs to recheck our math.

F-CA Total Power 34 - Photons 8 - Phasers 6 - Shields 2 - Life Support 1 - Fire Control 1 = 16
F-CB Total Power 38 - Photons 8 - Phasers 11 - Shields 2 - Life Support 1 - Fire Control 1 = 15

This is irrelevant, in a running-battle you never power all your weapons at once.

[Soreyes]

Soreyes sticks his nose in.

Face it fed's. When you come up aginst a Kzin in a DF....... Run!!!!!   

[marstone]

Soreyes sticks his nose in.

Face it fed's. When you come up aginst a Kzin in a DF....... Run!!!!!   

Well, maybe not run, but you don't chase.

[Dizzy]

lol, chasing is sometimes the only way to run off them pesky droners... It then devolves into a game of timing, range, and turning radius. Hehe, dont forget to watch out for the 'Het+trac+SP+dronewave+Bukakke-in-ur-face' manuever. Kills many a fed capn.

[Roychipoqua_Mace]

lol, chasing is sometimes the only way to run off them pesky droners... It then devolves into a game of timing, range, and turning radius. Hehe, dont forget to watch out for the 'Het+trac+SP+dronewave+Bukakke-in-ur-face' manuever. Kills many a fed capn.

Yeah, that is never fun.

I never played droners much, but the Camboro XCA is really nice (and breaks up those endless advanced-era fights). You can't get better than four reloads of fast drones and engine doubling at under 300 . . . well, you probably can but oh well.

[Roychipoqua_Mace]

(Oops, double post)

[Age]

Soreyes sticks his nose in.

Face it fed's. When you come up aginst a Kzin in a DF....... Run!!!!!   

We are allies though this being on the Dyna.

[Nemesis]

Soreyes sticks his nose in.

Face it fed's. When you come up aginst a Kzin in a DF....... Run!!!!!   

We are allies though this being on the Dyna.

Some allies it is better not to be too close to.

[Dizzy]

Soreyes sticks his nose in.

Face it fed's. When you come up aginst a Kzin in a DF....... Run!!!!!   

We are allies though this being on the Dyna.

Some allies it is better not to be too close to.

Didnt we fix this last mission pack where u go to communications and toggle the button to fire on allies?

[Kruk]

I see nothing changed around here in all the years. Someone starts a thread about tactics, it then turns into race trash talk, ships compared, power and then cheese (Droners). LOL

Starcastling vs a Klingon is the way to go, except if he has fighters (Cheese). Or a B11

[Dizzy]

There is new stuff... Its a few months away by my guess buts its cool.

[KBFLordKrueg]

I see nothing changed around here in all the years. Someone starts a thread about tactics, it then turns into race trash talk, ships compared, power and then cheese (Droners). LOL

I was thinking the same thing...

[Ronin]

Well... we don't, or can't, actually play the game anymore. So we have our battles here, reliving our glory years in the relative safety of a forum post, where we never have to watch the bright light of a warp-core breach where our ship used to be. 

[Dizzy]

Yeah, I remember my most painful warp core breach... Before the new Mirak fast cruiser was 'adjusted' for playbalance issues, Reejr killed my C7V with one. Or mb it was a C7. Totally humiliating. I went and hid under a rock for a while after that. Totally newbed the encounter and got pwnd.

[Corbomite]

Curious -- what does "power curve" exactly mean? I've used it before from time-to-time to describe the general power efficiency of a ship. In this case, I would say that the Federation CB has a better power curve than the CA just because it has more power (and you don't have to use the power on the hungry weapons if you need it somewhere else). But if the strict definition of a power curve is the amount of energy a ship has leftover while it fully charges its weapons (100% capacitor and all heavy weapons on normal), then the CA has the better curve.

Also, does power curve have anything to do with holdable heavy weapons? Klingons can usually charge normal dizzies while flying faster than Feds charging an equal number of photons, but the Klinks won't be able to speed up after charging them, unlike the Fed. Which would have the better power curve in this example?

Power curve for me means that the ship can walk and chew gum at the same time at a speed of 20+. If it can't do that, it doesn't have a power curve, it has lifepods.

[FPF-DieHard]

Starcastling vs a Klingon is the way to go, except if he has fighters (Cheese). Or a B11

After having learned to castle and trying other stuff I have to say it's NOT always the best option.   Sure you don't zip around at speed 28 the whole time but mid-speed works best.  You have to cause damage you your opponent and can't always rely on them being stupid enough to let you fire at range 8 and giving you time to reload.  In D2 trying to castle after 2280 is a death sentence.  Different in GSA because of loadouts, but I'd still take a BCF over a C7 in 2280 with D2 loadouts.  i prefer plasma in GSA anyway.

One of the things i loved about D2 was the evolution of tactics that came about as the ships (and the cheese . . .) gets better.  You can't use the same tactics in 2285 that worked in 2265, and you wouldn't be able to uses 2285 tactics in 2265 because the ships just wouldn't be able to do it.

The racial trash-talk is damned amusing though, shows that after a decade we can still be passionate about a game.  if only it worked on modern OSes . . .

[Father Ted]

As one of the four or five best Fed pilots I've ever had the privilege of flying with, listen to what Die Hard says.

I'll go on later, but I've tried posting twice already and after wasting nearly 3 hours on a wireless connection that is having fits, I'm trying to keep this one short and sweet.

[Father Ted]

Do you know if there is a similar thread for Feds vs. other races, especially Klinks?

Best advice for the Feddies facing a Klingon - Surrender.

Drag your sorry ass back to the sewer it came from, you useless Klinktard. 

[Nemesis]

Do you know if there is a similar thread for Feds vs. other races, especially Klinks?

Best advice for the Feddies facing a Klingon - Surrender.

Drag your sorry ass back to the sewer it came from, you useless Klinktard. 

You might want to read the earlier parts of the thread for advice you might like better.

[Father Ted]

Back to more serious stuff. I only use proxies in planet or base assaults. I use normals against Rommies(same for Gorn and ISC) until I wear them down for the OL's. Against Klinks it's about 90% OL's, same with the Kitties, Lyrans, and the rare encounter with a Hydran enemy ship. The key to flying Fed is watching your power curve and your EW board, but never forget your tractor/repulse setting, especially against droners and plasma ships.

In the Klink Civil War campaign, with the exception of Kreug and Saxon, a lot of Klinks simply didn't play because the D5D was not on the shiplist and they don't know how to use disruptors. The Fed, Hydran, and Lyran pilots proved to be better Klinks than most of the regular ones because they knew how to use direct fire weapons, not drones.

If you're a Fed, learn how to work the shiplist. In Early, if they don't start you in one, get a FFG and start earning points for your next ship, which should be a CC+(skip the DD, it's a deathtrap). In Mid, go with the CLC, but be careful, it has a horrible HET, and odds are you'll breakdown if you try one, which means you're dead. Otherwise, it's a bulldog fully capable of taking on any other medium cruiser. I've never really cared for the CB, so if I'm not in a CLC by now, I'll stick with the CC+. When you get to Late, you should have enough points to buy at least a BCH. I love the BCV, but that doesn't come out until you're really late in the campaign, so it's you're choice, Die Hard likes the BCJ, others like the Bismarck class(BCF), I don't like trying to arm photons and F-torps at the same time. I prefer the Kirov class(i.e. BCG), which if there's any justice in the world when they make SFC4, will have double drone control. BTW: stay as far away as possible from the Excelsior(BCE) class as possible, it's useless.

If you're one of the few chosen, because usually in campaigns, there's a limit on how many dreads and CVA's any race can fly, so depending on the era, I list them as follows: Early, get a DNL. This is a fun ship to fly, five photons you can OL at high speed and enough phasers to chase any droner to the borderline. Mid, I'd try and get my hands on a CVA, another fun ship which is good at ambushes for an unexpecting enemy pilot. Late, go with the DNH or SCS. They're both monsters when flown properly.

I don't really like the X-Ships because I think they were thrown in as a gimmick by Taldren, and the BB's(for all races) are just a little over the top, IMO.

[knightstorm]

If you're a Fed, learn how to work the shiplist. In Early, if they don't start you in one, get a FFG and start earning points for your next ship, which should be a CC+(skip the DD, it's a deathtrap). In Mid, go with the CLC, but be careful, it has a horrible HET, and odds are you'll breakdown if you try one, which means you're dead. Otherwise, it's a bulldog fully capable of taking on any other medium cruiser. I've never really cared for the CB, so if I'm not in a CLC by now, I'll stick with the CC+. When you get to Late, you should have enough points to buy at least a BCH. I love the BCV, but that doesn't come out until you're really late in the campaign, so it's you're choice, Die Hard likes the BCJ, others like the Bismarck class(BCF), I don't like trying to arm photons and F-torps at the same time. I prefer the Kirov class(i.e. BCG), which if there's any justice in the world when they make SFC4, will have double drone control. BTW: stay as far away as possible from the Excelsior(BCE) class as possible, it's useless.

If you're one of the few chosen, because usually in campaigns, there's a limit on how many dreads and CVA's any race can fly, so depending on the era, I list them as follows: Early, get a DNL. This is a fun ship to fly, five photons you can OL at high speed and enough phasers to chase any droner to the borderline. Mid, I'd try and get my hands on a CVA, another fun ship which is good at ambushes for an unexpecting enemy pilot. Late, go with the DNH or SCS. They're both monsters when flown properly.

I don't really like the X-Ships because I think they were thrown in as a gimmick by Taldren, and the BB's(for all races) are just a little over the top, IMO.

Ahh, the CLC isn't available until late era.  I'm fairly sure the CC+ isn't available until mid, but I don't fly it that often so I'm not sure.  Same with the DNL.  If I'm flying on GSA, I prefer the DNW over the DNH as it is a better value for the bpv.  However on a dyna where bpv isn't an issue I'd take the DNH.

[FPF-DieHard]

In the Klink Civil War campaign, with the exception of Kreug and Saxon, a lot of Klinks simply didn't play because the D5D was not on the shiplist and they don't know how to use disruptors. The Fed, Hydran, and Lyran pilots proved to be better Klinks than most of the regular ones because they knew how to use direct fire weapons, not drones.

That's not entirely fair and at the same time - who in their right mind thinks a D5D has a pray against a D5L or D7W?  The Klingon ships are build to fight mirak, WTF is a D5D going to do against a D7W's 7 rear-firing phaser 1s that it can reload at speed 31?   It's as good of a D5D-killer as a Federation fast cruiser.  I think Hexx should have left them in so it would have shown how futile it would have been against ships built to fight Kzinti.

I'd also have to point out that the KHH, a Klingon fleet, won that server.

[Kroma BaSyl]

I'd also have to point out that the KHH, a Klingon fleet, won that server.

Gorn's are still prettier.

[knightstorm]

I'd also have to point out that the KHH, a Klingon fleet, won that server.

Gorn's are still prettier.

I don't think he denied that fact.

[Father Ted]

In the Klink Civil War campaign, with the exception of Kreug and Saxon, a lot of Klinks simply didn't play because the D5D was not on the shiplist and they don't know how to use disruptors. The Fed, Hydran, and Lyran pilots proved to be better Klinks than most of the regular ones because they knew how to use direct fire weapons, not drones.

That's not entirely fair and at the same time - who in their right mind thinks a D5D has a pray against a D5L or D7W?  The Klingon ships are build to fight mirak, WTF is a D5D going to do against a D7W's 7 rear-firing phaser 1s that it can reload at speed 31?   It's as good of a D5D-killer as a Federation fast cruiser.  I think Hexx should have left them in so it would have shown how futile it would have been against ships built to fight Kzinti.

I'd also have to point out that the KHH, a Klingon fleet, won that server.

All I know is that in the Klink Civil War, Jeff, C-Los and I flew numerous 3-on-3 battles with Klink pilots and never lost one. In D5L's.

[KBFLordKrueg]

In the Klink Civil War campaign, with the exception of Kreug and Saxon, a lot of Klinks simply didn't play because the D5D was not on the shiplist and they don't know how to use disruptors.

My old friend Saxon did not participate in the KCW. Buy the time it finally happened, he had been long absent from the D2 and SFC in general.

[FPF-Tobin Dax]

Dynaverse II Experiences / Re: KCW KHH Kills etc.
« on: February 04, 2006, 03:34:56 am »
KHH-CurzonDax in a D7-W, blows up Dflys' DWL friday evening. GG sir.   

Ahhh...the good old days.

[Dizzy]

Hey FT! The BCE SG version aint useless@!@#

[Father Ted]

Hey FT! The BCE SG version aint useless@!@#

Dizzy! One of the best pilots I've ever known, plus a wife who wasn't shy about getting on TS to get you off the Dyna.

I based my ratings on the standard SFC2 and OP shiplists. If you upgraded the BCE, more power to you, but I think you'd agree that the D2 version was useless.

[Age]

Back to more serious stuff. I only use proxies in planet or base assaults. I use normals against Rommies(same for Gorn and ISC) until I wear them down for the OL's. Against Klinks it's about 90% OL's, same with the Kitties, Lyrans, and the rare encounter with a Hydran enemy ship. The key to flying Fed is watching your power curve and your EW board, but never forget your tractor/repulse setting, especially against droners and plasma ships.

I would really like to see this done using normals vs Rommies in CC+.

If you're a Fed, learn how to work the shiplist. In Early, if they don't start you in one, get a FFG and start earning points for your next ship, which should be a CC+(skip the DD, it's a deathtrap). In Mid, go with the CLC, but be careful, it has a horrible HET, and odds are you'll breakdown if you try one, which means you're dead. Otherwise, it's a bulldog fully capable of taking on any other medium cruiser. I've never really cared for the CB, so if I'm not in a CLC by now, I'll stick with the CC+. When you get to Late, you should have enough points to buy at least a BCH. I love the BCV, but that doesn't come out until you're really late in the campaign, so it's you're choice, Die Hard likes the BCJ, others like the Bismarck class(BCF), I don't like trying to arm photons and F-torps at the same time. I prefer the Kirov class(i.e. BCG), which if there's any justice in the world when they make SFC4, will have double drone control. BTW: stay as far away as possible from the Excelsior(BCE) class as possible, it's useless.

I don't find anything wrong with a DD+ or DDG as well as F-CAI or BCE.This makes for good skill full pilot in not relying on the ADD.

I don't really like the X-Ships because I think they were thrown in as a gimmick by Taldren, and the BB's(for all races) are just a little over the top, IMO.

I don't find anything wrong with FS not as bad as Taldrens

[FPF-DieHard]

I'd also have to point out that the KHH, a Klingon fleet, won that server.

Gorn's are still prettier.

Get your ass on DDO.  Sure you can't play a lizard but a female dwarf with pink hair would be perfect for you.

[Dizzy]

Lets see, the SG F-BCE, the changes I made to this Taldren movie ship coffin were never shouted down by the klinks, so I think my tweak passed the mustard, at least for the few who flew it.

If memory serves, I added an ADD12, chnged the arcs on the phasers to be a little better, notably 2x Ph3 ALL and 2xPh1 ALL. The biggest change that the BCE underwent was the two rear firing Photons being changed from RA to FARA. And I changed the move cost from 1.25 to 1.24 which solved a fractional power problem at top speed. It now needs 38.44 points of power to go 31 instead of 38.75. That tiny bit of fractional power has a huge benefit. And I think the shuttle launch rate was increased from 1 to 2.

Oh well... the days where that ship had a chance to surprise someone a little has passed, but it was fun when I flew it. Oh, and despite the changes I made, lol some fed captains still called it a coffin and refused to fly it. Guess thats why the klinks never got pissed off at the changes. And the wife still gets on the comms sometimes, lol wasnt that funny on AOTK2?

[FPF-DieHard]

Oh well... the days where that ship had a chance to surprise someone a little has passed, but it was fun when I flew it. Oh, and despite the changes I made, lol some fed captains still called it a coffin and refused to fly it. Guess thats why the klinks never got pissed off at the changes. And the wife still gets on the comms sometimes, lol wasnt that funny on AOTK2?

it's the year it comes out, the BCV was still more useful.

On of the things I had in my list that never made it to the "live' servers was BCXs for all the races, I used the Excelsior model for that and pretended the BCE never existed.  I like the first-generation "SFB" X-ships and was planning on phasing in more and more but never got around to it.

I THINK I have the Klingon C7X on one live server because they were opposite the ISC but I can't recall 100%.

[Dizzy]

Damn... if windows 7 worked on the dyna...

[marstone]

Damn... if windows 7 worked on the dyna...

Keep fingers crossed.

[Father Ted]

Lets see, the SG F-BCE, the changes I made to this Taldren movie ship coffin were never shouted down by the klinks, so I think my tweak passed the mustard, at least for the few who flew it.

If memory serves, I added an ADD12, chnged the arcs on the phasers to be a little better, notably 2x Ph3 ALL and 2xPh1 ALL. The biggest change that the BCE underwent was the two rear firing Photons being changed from RA to FARA. And I changed the move cost from 1.25 to 1.24 which solved a fractional power problem at top speed. It now needs 38.44 points of power to go 31 instead of 38.75. That tiny bit of fractional power has a huge benefit. And I think the shuttle launch rate was increased from 1 to 2.

Oh well... the days where that ship had a chance to surprise someone a little has passed, but it was fun when I flew it. Oh, and despite the changes I made, lol some fed captains still called it a coffin and refused to fly it. Guess thats why the klinks never got pissed off at the changes. And the wife still gets on the comms sometimes, lol wasnt that funny on AOTK2?

I knew you had to have changed the BCE, but nobody knew about it, which is why nobody wanted to fly it. We just saw the BCE on the shiplist and drove on past looking for another BCH or whatever we had the bucks for.

As for your wife, that is definitely the funniest thing I've ever heard on TS. It's way better than me in the Hydran Expedition when I finally broke through Klink lines and reached the Federation during DH's last day crackwhore offensive when I announced it on TS.

[KBFLordKrueg]

Lets see, the SG F-BCE, the changes I made to this Taldren movie ship coffin were never shouted down by the klinks, so I think my tweak passed the mustard, at least for the few who flew it.

It wasn't shouted down because you turned deaf ears...
Anytime there were improvements to any Fed ship it always was the "it needs it" and any protest was ignored or shot down.
But, if there were improvements suggested for a Klingon ship (like a 2nd AMD on the C-7/C10K w/o cutting losing some other system) it was argued down as unbalancing or OTT.
Same arguement went on for years. Once the population dropped to a handful, those changes to Fed ships were a lot easier to simply push through becuase by then not many even cared enough to complain. So then BCE and NCM got a free AMD because it was "needed" and the handful of Klingons still around who did complain were simply ignored.
And who could forget the power boost given to the Fed Base stations/Starbases until another Alliance players raised hell on the public forums, before everybody noticed and chimed in, and it was reduced again, but not until it had been in for at one campaign before being noticed. (Not my fault you guys don't review the shiplist is what we were told)
Just another one of the many things that have contributed to the decline of the SFC population.
Simply the fact that you even were running a campaign was enough for many players to decline my invite to join, and not just on the Coalition side. 
It's too bad really, it was a great game...but I doubt there will ever be another SFC camapign on the D2.
After a couple of years, if STO ever manages to get their s*** together, it has some potential, but as it stands now, they need a lot more content at least before they're going to keep a decent Klingon population...same old story, different game...it's all about the Feds...
RIP SFC

[KBFLordKrueg]

 It's way better than me in the Hydran Expedition when I finally broke through Klink lines and reached the Federation during DH's last day crackwhore offensive when I announced it on TS.

Ah, that would have been GW 1, when the server went down only a few hours before the campaign was supposed to end, stayed down (due to tech difficulties  ) only to come back up just before the pre-announced time the Alliance was supposed to meet up for a final push.
We had a bunch of Klingons on when it "crashed" and we waited for a while, but by the time it finally came back up, most of the Klingons had gone off to bed and, in an amazing stroke of luck, dozens of Alliance had logged on where before there were hardly any.
So the Feds pulled a rabbit out of the hat and won because of a Hail Mary pass executed in the final hour or two of the camapign.
As I recall, that was the only one in the GW series the Alliance won, that's why we never had a GW 6, there was simply no way for the Alliance to emerge victorious after the scandelous pomeling of GW 5.
Ah...the Glory days.

[FPF-DieHard]

 It's way better than me in the Hydran Expedition when I finally broke through Klink lines and reached the Federation during DH's last day crackwhore offensive when I announced it on TS.

Ah, that would have been GW 1, when the server went down only a few hours before the campaign was supposed to end, stayed down (due to tech difficulties  ) only to come back up just before the pre-announced time the Alliance was supposed to meet up for a final push.
We had a bunch of Klingons on when it "crashed" and we waited for a while, but by the time it finally came back up, most of the Klingons had gone off to bed and, in an amazing stroke of luck, dozens of Alliance had logged on where before there were hardly any.
So the Feds pulled a rabbit out of the hat and won because of a Hail Mary pass executed in the final hour or two of the camapign.
As I recall, that was the only one in the GW series the Alliance won, that's why we never had a GW 6, there was simply no way for the Alliance to emerge victorious after the scandelous pomeling of GW 5.
Ah...the Glory days.

lots of bad words removed.........

[FPF-DieHard]

 It's way better than me in the Hydran Expedition when I finally broke through Klink lines and reached the Federation during DH's last day crackwhore offensive when I announced it on TS.

Ah, that would have been GW 1, when the server went down only a few hours before the campaign was supposed to end, stayed down (due to tech difficulties  ) only to come back up just before the pre-announced time the Alliance was supposed to meet up for a final push.
We had a bunch of Klingons on when it "crashed" and we waited for a while, but by the time it finally came back up, most of the Klingons had gone off to bed and, in an amazing stroke of luck, dozens of Alliance had logged on where before there were hardly any.
So the Feds pulled a rabbit out of the hat and won because of a Hail Mary pass executed in the final hour or two of the camapign.
As I recall, that was the only one in the GW series the Alliance won, that's why we never had a GW 6, there was simply no way for the Alliance to emerge victorious after the scandelous pomeling of GW 5.
Ah...the Glory days.

you are still a race-whore with no concept of objectivity, after all these years and on a game we'll never play again you pull this kind of sh*t?   The Klinks got many improvements including awesome PFs and fighter/carrier improvements.  Anything better than what was given would have been WAY OTT for some of the traditional enemies (Hydrans) without making a lick of difference agasint other (2 UMD on a C7 really make a differnce against a BCF?).

The C8VK -  with AWESOME fighters, AMD and drones.
The D7TX - X-Ship with photons front and rear-firing
The DX with C7 Distrupter arcs.

Yeah, i was REALLY trying to f*ck the Klingons . . .

Regarding other "Coalition" upgrades, did you not see the Romulans?  If we were trying to tank the Coaltion would I have added in all of their amazing carriers?

How many servers did the F-DNH have drone control of 6?  Most of them after 2004.  You have any idea how much sh*t I got for that?  Have you played a Lyran CVA?  Or an ISC CCZ with Mech-link?

News for your Kreug, you were a mediocre pilot at best.  You were never good enough to tell if something was balanced or not.  Every modification made had hours and hours of testing to see if something was OTT or not.  Offers were made to ANYONE to join in on the testing, I'd announce it on the forums and post the lists as well as the documented changes.  The most blantant race-whore in the game, t00l, was told to STFU more often than not.

More bad words.

[KBFLordKrueg]

 It's way better than me in the Hydran Expedition when I finally broke through Klink lines and reached the Federation during DH's last day crackwhore offensive when I announced it on TS.

Ah, that would have been GW 1, when the server went down only a few hours before the campaign was supposed to end, stayed down (due to tech difficulties  ) only to come back up just before the pre-announced time the Alliance was supposed to meet up for a final push.
We had a bunch of Klingons on when it "crashed" and we waited for a while, but by the time it finally came back up, most of the Klingons had gone off to bed and, in an amazing stroke of luck, dozens of Alliance had logged on where before there were hardly any.
So the Feds pulled a rabbit out of the hat and won because of a Hail Mary pass executed in the final hour or two of the camapign.
As I recall, that was the only one in the GW series the Alliance won, that's why we never had a GW 6, there was simply no way for the Alliance to emerge victorious after the scandelous pomeling of GW 5.
Ah...the Glory days.

bad words.

hm...touched a nerve there, did I?
I never said anything of the sort. I sure you remember the controversy that erupted over said incident. I simply brought it up again.
Relax, dude...yep...it was a long time ago, obviously, some are more sensitive about it than others.

[KBFLordKrueg]

 It's way better than me in the Hydran Expedition when I finally broke through Klink lines and reached the Federation during DH's last day crackwhore offensive when I announced it on TS.

Ah, that would have been GW 1, when the server went down only a few hours before the campaign was supposed to end, stayed down (due to tech difficulties  ) only to come back up just before the pre-announced time the Alliance was supposed to meet up for a final push.
We had a bunch of Klingons on when it "crashed" and we waited for a while, but by the time it finally came back up, most of the Klingons had gone off to bed and, in an amazing stroke of luck, dozens of Alliance had logged on where before there were hardly any.
So the Feds pulled a rabbit out of the hat and won because of a Hail Mary pass executed in the final hour or two of the camapign.
As I recall, that was the only one in the GW series the Alliance won, that's why we never had a GW 6, there was simply no way for the Alliance to emerge victorious after the scandelous pomeling of GW 5.
Ah...the Glory days.

you are still a race-whore with no concept of objectivity, after all these years and on a game we'll never play again you pull this kind of sh*t?   The Klinks got many improvements including awesome PFs and fighter/carrier improvements.  Anything better than what was given would have been WAY OTT for some of the traditional enemies (Hydrans) without making a lick of difference agasint other (2 UMD on a C7 really make a differnce against a BCF?).

The C8VK -  with AWESOME fighters, AMD and drones.
The D7TX - X-Ship with photons front and rear-firing
The DX with C7 Distrupter arcs.

Yeah, i was REALLY trying to f*ck the Klingons . . .

Regarding other "Coalition" upgrades, did you not see the Romulans?  If we were trying to tank the Coaltion would I have added in all of their amazing carriers?

How many servers did the F-DNH have drone control of 6?  Most of them after 2004.  You have any idea how much sh*t I got for that?  Have you played a Lyran CVA?  Or an ISC CCZ with Mech-link?

News for your Kreug, you were a mediocre pilot at best.  You were never good enough to tell if something was balanced or not.  Every modification made had hours and hours of testing to see if something was OTT or not.  Offers were made to ANYONE to join in on the testing, I'd announce it on the forums and post the lists as well as the documented changes.  The most blantant race-whore in the game, t00l, was told to STFU more often than not.

bad words

DUDE, calm down, will ya? Have ya had your meds today?
I brought up old arguements that raged for years. Obviously, some are more sensitive to old discussions than others.
I NEVER implied, suggested or otherwise indicated you tried anything of the sort.
Nor did I mention anything about any of those ships you listed. I mentioned 2 of the more commonly used ships, ones that we always have choices of, and no Rmoulan ships at all.
Hell, I credit you with the best shiplist ever used in any campaign. I'm the one who always wanted your shiplist, with the SFB fighters/PFs and such used.
Where did you read I implied you were trying to F*** over the Klingons?

Yeppers, I was a mediocre pilot, never claimed to be anything but.
Even back to SFC1 during the Mpig days....
If I got a 50% kill ratio, I was happy.
I never made any posts claiming my greatness, nor bragged about killing so and so if I had a Victory.
If I had real keyboard skills, I might have been better, but I don't and I wasn't.
I never lead the Coalition in so many campaigns because I was a uber pilot, I did it mostly because no one else wanted the responsibility.
Oh, and that I was usually asked to by the Coalition pilots.
But, I enjoyed the game, isn't that what it was all about?
Chill out man. You act like I personally attacked you and said you were some dirty cheater or something.
Where did your name even come up? Where did I mention ANYTHING you did or didn't do?
Damn...almost like ya got a guilt complex or something.
Take a pill and calm down.

[FoaS_XC]

Locked. If there is a discussion to be had about strategies, someone make a new thread. If you want to make personal attacks, do it in PMs.

There is a rule in my house, and its a good one: "If something happened over six months ago, you aren't allowed to bring it up in a fight." Obviously, this isn't my house, and I can't make it a solid rule across the board, nor would I want to, but its a good thing to keep at the back of one's head, as a matter of courtesy.

[FVA_C_ Blade_ XC]

Topic unlocked,

PM's sent to those who needed them.

[Corbomite]

DH, I am seriously concerned about you.

[KBF-Kurok]

You guys are correct about all those awsome ships you gave us I really enjoyed the D7w with the expanded arcs for the dizzies in one of dizzies servers.
 The fact remains tho there were some problems with some of our ships that werent corrected no matter how many times we said something untill the same problem was encountered  in some of your allies ships. One of the klingon mirv ships as i recall. This is all water under the bridge now.
 I still think that in most cases tho the best fed tactic when confronted with a klingon is to HET and run at full speed

[Father Ted]

You guys are correct about all those awsome ships you gave us I really enjoyed the D7w with the expanded arcs for the dizzies in one of dizzies servers.
 The fact remains tho there were some problems with some of our ships that werent corrected no matter how many times we said something untill the same problem was encountered  in some of your allies ships. One of the klingon mirv ships as i recall. This is all water under the bridge now.
 I still think that in most cases tho the best fed tactic when confronted with a klingon is to HET and run at full speed

It depends on the ship I'm flying, but I would still probably blow you out of the water in any equal fight while flying a Fed vs. a Klink. I actually learned how to play something besides a droner... 

One of the reasons I like and respect Kreug is that he at least knows how to use a disruptor, which most Klinks don't.

[marstone]

You guys are correct about all those awsome ships you gave us I really enjoyed the D7w with the expanded arcs for the dizzies in one of dizzies servers.
 The fact remains tho there were some problems with some of our ships that werent corrected no matter how many times we said something untill the same problem was encountered  in some of your allies ships. One of the klingon mirv ships as i recall. This is all water under the bridge now.
 I still think that in most cases tho the best fed tactic when confronted with a klingon is to HET and run at full speed

One of the nice things about the game.  If you don't like the shiplist, or how a server runs.  The tools are out there to make a new shiplist and run a server yourself.  (would be nice if more would do this, bad connection speed for me or I would try to get on up again, did a few test servers).

[knightstorm]

 I still think that in most cases tho the best fed tactic when confronted with a klingon is to HET and run at full speed

Are you such a poor player that the only way you can win is to score cheap hits when the fed suffers a system breakdown?  This is not intended to be trash talk, merely my observations as a fed pilot, that the majority of the times I've tried to het it hasn't worked out well for me.  In fact, if you look at my youtube page, the last vid I uploaded has me suffering a breakdown in a pvp match

[marstone]

That is one thing I don't like about the shiplist on fed ships.  In SFB a DD can het no problem the first time (100%) but not even close to that in SFC.  I have had the sucky part of breaking down in ships I use to HET in, in SFB.  But breakdown doing such in SFC as the chance is so low for some reason.

[KBF-Kurok]

 I still think that in most cases tho the best fed tactic when confronted with a klingon is to HET and run at full speed

Are you such a poor player that the only way you can win is to score cheap hits when the fed suffers a system breakdown?  This is not intended to be trash talk, merely my observations as a fed pilot, that the majority of the times I've tried to het it hasn't worked out well for me.  In fact, if you look at my youtube page, the last vid I uploaded has me suffering a breakdown in a pvp match

LOL funny stuff its all cool no offense taken. 

[KBF-Kurok]

You guys are correct about all those awsome ships you gave us I really enjoyed the D7w with the expanded arcs for the dizzies in one of dizzies servers.
 The fact remains tho there were some problems with some of our ships that werent corrected no matter how many times we said something untill the same problem was encountered  in some of your allies ships. One of the klingon mirv ships as i recall. This is all water under the bridge now.
 I still think that in most cases tho the best fed tactic when confronted with a klingon is to HET and run at full speed

It depends on the ship I'm flying, but I would still probably blow you out of the water in any equal fight while flying a Fed vs. a Klink. I actually learned how to play something besides a droner... 
I would take you up on that challenge if i had a machine that would run SFC. Im on and olllllllllllllllld sony machine (233 mhz processor 128 mb of ram) using an os called turbo pup(linux).

One of the reasons I like and respect Kreug is that he at least knows how to use a disruptor, which most Klinks don't.

[Age]

I haven't really flown to much except on GW series but not even I would be afraid to fight a Klink of equal bpv match.Kreug is possibly a great pilot but he takes on inferior ships over 100 bpv less than him like he did to me.

[Dizzy]

You guys are correct about all those awsome ships you gave us I really enjoyed the D7w with the expanded arcs for the dizzies in one of dizzies servers.
 The fact remains tho there were some problems with some of our ships that werent corrected no matter how many times we said something untill the same problem was encountered  in some of your allies ships. One of the klingon mirv ships as i recall. This is all water under the bridge now.
 I still think that in most cases tho the best fed tactic when confronted with a klingon is to HET and run at full speed

i think the mirv klink ship is broken. cant be fixed. state another example.

[KBF-Kurok]

i think it was fixed in one of DH last servers. I know for a fact that in it there was a sl change and our mirv ship started to work properly as well as theirs. I dont rember what the fix was youd have to talk to DH about it. I could site more but why bother.if there are any  more servers ill be there regardless if i can get a new puter and install xp on it that is.
Like i said this is all water under the bridge so it dosent matter any more. I cant rember squat about running a server since i havent helped out on one since the Triangle series, however if we ever get the new game ill do what i can to help out.
 I guess that what im saying is that we should just start with a clean slate and try to take seriously what both sides are saying about these things and do our hardest to get people from both sides to put toghter a server so there will be split responsibility and the single admin wont catch all the crap and burn out because of it.
 Now with all that said i would like to thank everyone who took the time to set up and run a server for all their hard work. I know you all did your best and caught nothing but crap for it. Thank you so much for the many hours of fun  and frustration.

 Kurok

[KBFLordKrueg]

i think the mirv klink ship is broken.

Correct. On all MIRV carrying Klingon ships, the MIRV missle does the correct damage, but all the other missles do much less than normal. Affects both normal and heavy warheads.
I remember a fix being found that consisted of changing the order of which racks had what type of drone, moving only the MIRV rack.

[KBFLordKrueg]

One of the reasons I like and respect Kreug is that he at least knows how to use a disruptor, which most Klinks don't.

Bless you Father...
I try...
I remember many a good fight with you, sir.

[KBFLordKrueg]

I haven't really flown to much except on GW series but not even I would be afraid to fight a Klink of equal bpv match.Kreug is possibly a great pilot but he takes on inferior ships over 100 bpv less than him like he did to me.

With any D2 battle, it is rare to get a truly equal match.
And with the disengement/banned from area rules have they developed it was a common practice to force smaller ships out of the area of concern with larger ships.
You were obviously unfortuante enough to be on the short end of the stick, so to speak.
It worked the same for both sides.

[Dizzy]

One of the reasons I like and respect Kreug is that he at least knows how to use a disruptor, which most Klinks don't.

Bless you Father...
I try...
I remember many a good fight with you, sir.

Hell, ok. I love fighting Krueg. He aint afraid to lose his ship, gives what he gets and any battle with him can go straight down to both ships launching armed probes. I've had so many awesome battles with that dude. He's totally bad for my blood pressure. Best thing about him is that he doesnt bother too much to try and win with patience. I thinks thats the most commendable part of his battle strategy because I HATE patient players.like corbo

[FVA_C_ Blade_ XC]

One of the reasons I like and respect Kreug is that he at least knows how to use a disruptor, which most Klinks don't.

Bless you Father...
I try...
I remember many a good fight with you, sir.

Hell, ok. I love fighting Krueg. He aint afraid to lose his ship, gives what he gets and any battle with him can go straight down to both ships launching armed probes. I've had so many awesome battles with that dude. He's totally bad for my blood pressure. Best thing about him is that he doesnt bother too much to try and win with patience. I thinks thats the most commendable part of his battle strategy because I HATE patient players.like corbo

<snickers>

[Age]

I haven't really flown to much except on GW series but not even I would be afraid to fight a Klink of equal bpv match.Kreug is possibly a great pilot but he takes on inferior ships over 100 bpv less than him like he did to me.

With any D2 battle, it is rare to get a truly equal match.
And with the disengement/banned from area rules have they developed it was a common practice to force smaller ships out of the area of concern with larger ships.
You were obviously unfortuante enough to be on the short end of the stick, so to speak.
It worked the same for both sides.

It would of been nice to have warning.This was when we were using OOB rules.