Topic: Orion Pirate pdn remake.

[Kreeargh]

My attempt at the OP box art pdn model made from scratch. Im not sure of my poly cap yet but so far it looks like ill be able to do it under 2k in poly and get a little smoothness out of the 2ndary hull and warps. I wish there were more pics other than the box art.

[Rod ONeal]

That's cool. I know KF has been wanting a higher res version of this for a while.

[Kreeargh]

That's cool. I know KF has been wanting a higher res version of this for a while.

I have had requests from atleast 5 members here to try and make it Rage being the first back in 2003. Its now i feel my modeling skills are up to the par to make the model "poly vrs detail maybee worth a download" - the texture work ofcourse .
Here is some more pics of the lady of the orion   
Alot of guess work went in to the modeling i assume the ass end is roundish since there seems to be a engine or diflector of a sort on the back of the 2ndary hull. Warp engine build next.
Edit: I am useing this box art pic and the op model in mod viewer for referance. Im trying to make a model thats got game poly vrs high poly detail as asked, If any one cares .
Edit agian: Last update pic for this weekend.

[Bernard Guignard]

That is some nice work there

[Klingon Fanatic]

Nice! I can't wait to see the finished ship... I like the reference pic you are using too.

Qapla'

KF

[Wicked Zombie]

Nice and Orion-y. You shouldn't have to worry much on the textures if you ignore the stock model and go with the box-art version. Maybe take some creative leeway to add a few more details that the box-art doesn't have.

[Starforce2]

Nice! I can't wait to see the finished ship... I like the reference pic you are using too.

Qapla'

KF

I'll second that.

[Kreeargh]

I hope i can finish her its long over due on my list of stuff.
I just had to screw with it a little more today  anyone like the warp on the left or should i stick with the basic on on right? The drawback to the one on the left is it will need 1 seperate texture so the transperant thing will work  on the buzzard cap or i could flip the poly on that part either way its an error sfc games might not like. Oh and where is the shuttlebay or is there one ? The game model dont show crap for any type of bays.

[intermech]

It looks great. Very close, if not exactly in the spirit of the original!

Is the box art model floating around somewhere out there?

[CaptCujo]

Since there isn’t any pictorial reference (aside from the very limited box art) for this ship, use your artistic license. I would suggest using textures to put a shuttle bay on the underside.

[Kreeargh]

Is that the impulse drive on the back of the 2ndary hull or is that just "get it done texture work"?

It looks great. Very close, if not exactly in the spirit of the original!

Is the box art model floating around somewhere out there?

Thanks im trying to get it accurate , it dont help when the pic is real small and has logos all over it covering detail. But . If there is one built and online link it please. I would like to know asap so i can stop building this one .    I  am not sure if i can map this thing proper with all these weird angles . Most will have to be plainer maping and then the textures might he hell to make, catch 22 model here i think. 

CaptCujo  I want a open shuttle bay so the fighter and shuttles can be displayed if wanted. Most of my models are not used much that i know of in sfc they end up in freelancer and other games where they can launch fighters and stuff from the open bays.  Where should i put it, a drop bay on bottom like in enterprise?  Im takeing all ideas at this point 

Wicked Zombie  The only use i have for the stock model for referance would be to see the back of the ship and its basic shape, as for texture to poly i modeled in the back warps exaust ports and that port on the rear of the ship that looks to be simmler.  I might try and do some windows or some of that garb on the back of the saucer but thats about it i will use from the stock model. The rest will be off the box art requests or fudgeing it.

Thanks all i will try not to fail on this one 

[Kreeargh]

Small update.   I am looking for ideas requests and thoughts here on out . I dont mind any negitive comments so bash away. I want to know why it sucks , what goes where or what needs fixing at this point. I still think the design is lacking in alot of areas like where is the shuttle bay and why are windows so damn large for a DN or is the pdn even a DN at all? Whats up with the gat style gun on the front but the Orions have no superweapon? The 6 nubs on the front there are those phasers or navlights? and why have bop style guns on the sides of the ship? Many I wana know why i am modeling these details i wish to know ? 

Here is my ideas for shuttlebays and impulse drives. Detail of the side guns i have not yet come up with yet  i dont want a box and cylnder thats boring.

[marstone]

warp nacelles could be alittle beefier.  Looks like a weak spot on the ship.

[Roychipoqua_Mace]

It is looking great so far. On your question about it being a DN, maybe it'd be a better BC or BCH. I think I remember the stock model of the ship being the Orion CA in SFC1, but I'm not 100% sure about that.

I agree about the nacelles, and I think it would balance the whole thing if the nacelle struts were a little thicker. I like your idea for the location of the impulse and the shuttle bays. As far as weapons go, those six nubs would make great phasers . . . and about the side guns, how gun-like did you want them to be? If you're trying to move away from the BOP look, maybe something like the SFB Gorn would be interesting

You can tell that the red disks are plasma, but it's not too obvious or anything. Just an idea.

[Kreeargh]

It is looking great so far. On your question about it being a DN, maybe it'd be a better BC or BCH. I think I remember the stock model of the ship being the Orion CA in SFC1, but I'm not 100% sure about that.

I agree about the nacelles, and I think it would balance the whole thing if the nacelle struts were a little thicker. I like your idea for the location of the impulse and the shuttle bays. As far as weapons go, those six nubs would make great phasers . . . and about the side guns, how gun-like did you want them to be? If you're trying to move away from the BOP look, maybe something like the SFB Gorn would be interesting

You can tell that the red disks are plasma, but it's not too obvious or anything. Just an idea.

Thanks for the ideas ALL keep them up if you can this helps not just for me but for all who model.
I will work up the warp pylons but another thought that could help ? What shape? should i longate the pylons, fatten them or bevel them to make them more round ? Thicken i can easy do just space verts wider but its still a box  .
I want it to be more than a bop rip off no offence as for side guns any way. The stock model had a box and cylnder for a gun Way to simple for a medium poly rebuild and i dont think Orions would mount bop style guns on their Pdn. I think it would be more of a x phaser placement or atleast HEAVY dizzy weapon. The on the hull mounts are for light and medium weapons .

[Rod ONeal]

Well, it depends on what part of the galaxy the cartel operated in as to whether it'd have disruptors or not. Disruptors were plentiful and cheap weapons. The Klingons weren't shy about supplying arms to scoundrels.

You might consider modeling on some drones. Pirates liked C-racks. Rapid fire and in SFB lots of options as to payload.

[marstone]

LOL, I did mean the pylons, got my terms goofed (yep not a modeler).

[FoaS_XC]

I thought that was the PBC. doesn't much matter. I agree with Marstone: the pylons could use some thickening. Otherwise, a fantastic thing you've got going. No one has ever remade the Pirate models.

[Kreeargh]

I thought that was the PBC. doesn't much matter. I agree with Marstone: the pylons could use some thickening. Otherwise, a fantastic thing you've got going. No one has ever remade the Pirate models.

It verry well could be i cant access the sfc2 models folder to find out.  windll 32 crashes .  I was sent a game model from op for referance use.   Thanks , thickening as how length or width? Should i bevel them more round?  And please someone tell me where to place the darn shuttlebay/s and impulse drive/s ?  use the shuttlebay  layout pic above , If you wish to comment . If i do to much guess work  andcuting in to the mesh here its gona end up like most of my crap. Full of errors and not used. Gmax dont have a stl check for me to find errors.

[FoaS_XC]

lol, no worries.

I've been sitting at the renders for a bit, and I have a few friendly suggestions. It's your model, feel free to ignore as you see fit . Most of these suggestions are just visual highlights that give the shape of the ship more definition (and they are hastily drawn with my wacom, so please excuse the bad handwriting)


I would say put the shuttlebays on the side of the secondary hull, and the impulse engines on the saucers.

If you right-click on the image and view it normally, you can zoom in and see better.

[The Northern Star]

Now I'll have to rethink my Orions.

[Kreeargh]

Update in the mix of modeling up Vermillion ships for Sins i was able to do a FOAS idea update  . Ideas sweet dude Thank you
Im workin on warps now to see the new look  . I started on a cargo bay on the back?? the shuttle/fighter bays are going under the main neck im thinking. Are the warp pylons thick enough now?

[Klingon Fanatic]

Nice job Kreeargh. Go for the gold... This is going to turn out great, I know it.

Qapla'

KF

[Roychipoqua_Mace]

I'm loving it too. All the added details are great, and so are the pylons. 

[Starforce2]

looks great after the FoaSification

[Kreeargh]

Nice job Kreeargh. Go for the gold... This is going to turn out great, I know it.

Qapla'

KF

Gmax file so far no gold ,dont jinx it  there are no textures and its not in .mod format  or finished many frack ups i can do What looks good in max /gmax can prove to look like crap in .mod format . I will release what i finish no matter but i wont go for gold untill its deserved.

[Kreeargh]

Darnit i did a test export to .mod the newest version crashes on export it wont save a mod file  . Same issue with the republic y wing i did. This is really putting me off!!

[Kreeargh]

Ok i did alittle more work on the model , it still crashes my windows at export . I fought it over an hour last night just to move the model to a folder so it wouldnt constantly crash my desktop.  I got this little screeny as i tryed to view the model in mod viewer. Can anyone tell me WTF is going on with these mod files that crash? Is this just a VISTA issue?
Why one works of the same model and another dont?  Its not just my models either KBF_Gow's bop does it ,some of the stock models crash it.   Here is the gmax file if anyone wishes to try and get a working model out of it. 

[Kreeargh]

1 more update i guess  here is the lower poly version that i was able to export to .mod but i havent been able to save any new uvw maping of it yet to .mod .   So in turn it sucks but its working without a crash of vista.

[Terradyhne]

Can you export your High poly model to 3ds and send it to me ??
I have found 28 degenerated polys in your lower poly version and i think you have much more in that highpoly version and this is causing the crash, as i had the same problems with some models on exporting from max to mod and all had degenerated polys. 

[Starfox1701]

Whats a degenerated poly?

[marstone]

Yeah, what is a degenerated poly?  Not a graphics guy but working translating the code that max uses to make a MOD file to blender and if there is something wonky in it, I might be able to tweak it out in my conversion.

[Rod ONeal]

I took your first one and used gmax to export it to .Mod, .3DS, and .gmax. See if any of these work for you. Especially see if PDN.gmax now exports fine. I'd like to get to the bottom of your problem.

I'm assuming there are no LODs to your model?


Edit: I didn't use gmax to export to 3DS. I imported the .MOD into Ultimate Unwrap 3D (UU3D) and then exported it to .3DS from there. Don't want people to get excited and think I have a 3DS export plugin for gmax.

[Kreeargh]

Nope no lods yet, I did want to make them for the ship but no luck so far on exports except for the lower poly one.  Rod when i pulled the mod file from the zip i put it in a folder on the desktop and it crashed faster than the normal crashing , keept crashing untill vista blue screened. The thing normaly wont crash if the suspect mod file is in a folder but this time it did. After the restart i was able to delete it before all of windows got loaded. I tryed all files exported them as normal and all crashed. This time i layerd the folders one inside another it dont crash now instantly but when you open the folder with the mod file it will crash. 
 Degenerated poly is fliped faces or inverted polys i think ?  I did mirror a few parts that would do that but what changed to make it crash is what i want to know. What does host process see in 1 mod file vrs another. Its acting like the mod file itself can be hacked from whats been going on here. 
My tos medical fleet has a bunch of mods in it i went to test this out ,i scrolled down real slow i saw a few mod files np scroll next row poped up bam crash.  I dont see how but could be, But could this be a video issue? I am using the onboard chip for video for now it works for fine of other stuff.

[Rod ONeal]

So, your comp crashes from the mod files without even trying to open them? Not all mod files, I take it? Just certain ones?

[Terradyhne]

i think this crashing problem is either a windows problem or hardware and driver problem, as i have this crashing problems with mod-files and the modviewer from the point on i had installed the WinXP servicepack2, it crashes the modviewer only as i load mod files directly from the desktop, if those mod files are in a folder than it doesn't crash and with only service pack 1 installed i had not such problems.
Windows shows its old downward compatibility problems again. 

[Kreeargh]

So, your comp crashes from the mod files without even trying to open them? Not all mod files, I take it? Just certain ones?

Yep. Weird thing too this model the version exported without the warp detail is fine. I am looking at it on my desktop now. The model with the warps with the grills and the extra dodads on the buzzard crashes. Through 1 folder and on desktop , it dont when layerd with 2 folders.  The Y wing was the same issue the lower poly one exported, add few hundred poly bam crash. It just crashed when you opend the folder it was in.   
It will crash just trying to view the models folder of sfc2 STOCK no addins. I cant mod sfc any more  or not on this machine anyway. Windows 7 better not be the same.

Terradyhne is correct about the bassakwards windows crap my xp machine used to blue screen when i open a mod file with m6 editor in the later months of its life. But you would think the compatability mode should have taken care of that. It did not do any diffrent for me, it makes me wonder if it ever worked in the first place.

[Rod ONeal]

I've never had my computer crash doing anything related to SFC. (Windows XP 32 bit SP3 both home and pro at this point.) I've had aps crash. The Mod viewer and M6. With the mod viewer it was the compatibility issue. Don't really recall with M6. I never liked that ap anyway.

The only thing I can think of is you do have a lot of separate parts on that model. Maybe there's some limit you are exceeding? Doesn't explain why it's fine on my computer though. Sorry, wish I was more help.

[Kreeargh]

I've never had my computer crash doing anything related to SFC. (Windows XP 32 bit SP3 both home and pro at this point.) I've had aps crash. The Mod viewer and M6. With the mod viewer it was the compatibility issue. Don't really recall with M6. I never liked that ap anyway.

The only thing I can think of is you do have a lot of separate parts on that model. Maybe there's some limit you are exceeding? Doesn't explain why it's fine on my computer though. Sorry, wish I was more help.

Thanks for your effort .
I think my days of modeling with this pc is numbered , way to much frustration goes in to this work for it to Not work in the end. Ha Ha i should have retired when i had xp and was ahead 
I dont think there are any limmits but this model dont have many seperate parts comparied to some that do that work fine.  The one issue that might be causeing it is the transparent section on the warps but i have done this type of work before and didnt have any issues then and those same models work.

[FoaS_XC]

this is why i wiped vista after 10 minutes of having my laptop

[Kreeargh]

this is why i wiped vista after 10 minutes of having my laptop

I wish i had that option but $ for an upgrade that most likely wont work . At this date its not worth it to me , my family is priorty at this point. THis is an end game project anyway. Fun for a few worthless to the masses.

[FoaS_XC]

It would cost you money to go back to XP?

[Norsehound]

Well, they don't sell XP anymore for one...

[Kreeargh]

It would cost you money to go back to XP?

My legal version of xp i have already called microsoft 2 times for new code installs for crashed hard drives. If i recall i saw something about they ended that type of support so any install i do with my legal version i only have 30 days to use it.  If there is a way to revert back to xp from vista free i want the info asap 

[MajorRacal]

I was able to get a fresh XP authorisation code about 3 or 4 weeks ago, so I don't see why you'd have much of a problem.

[Kreeargh]

I was able to get a fresh XP authorisation code about 3 or 4 weeks ago, so I don't see why you'd have much of a problem.

Thats good to know ill try and call them agian and see if i cant get xp working, Vista was  fun while it lasted ,not.

Edit: i think this crap is the end of all my fun , exporting issues mixed famaly / issues  and i can not texture models the way i wish the end days are here. This is the last model sorry all. I am not wineing but ending it. Same with all my projects.

[MajorRacal]

Didn't you get a new XP code?

[Terradyhne]

It would cost you money to go back to XP?

My legal version of xp i have already called microsoft 2 times for new code installs for crashed hard drives. If i recall i saw something about they ended that type of support so any install i do with my legal version i only have 30 days to use it.  If there is a way to revert back to xp from vista free i want the info asap 

as i work in the IT range, i know there is a Tools available to downgrade Vista to XP. Why shouldn't you reinstall and activate a XP if you have a legal Version ?? Don't activate via phone use the online activation, i have installed my XP pro since it got it on 10 of my PC's with complete upgrades and i never had activation problems.Vista and Win 7 have these problems as they implemented this limitation sh*t for some reasons i don't se a point for to have it in.
If you use Vista Home than there should be no Problem with the downgrade to XP or are you useeing a Laptop??

[Kreeargh]

It would cost you money to go back to XP?

My legal version of xp i have already called microsoft 2 times for new code installs for crashed hard drives. If i recall i saw something about they ended that type of support so any install i do with my legal version i only have 30 days to use it.  If there is a way to revert back to xp from vista free i want the info asap 

as i work in the IT range, i know there is a Tools available to downgrade Vista to XP. Why shouldn't you reinstall and activate a XP if you have a legal Version ?? Don't activate via phone use the online activation, i have installed my XP pro since it got it on 10 of my PC's with complete upgrades and i never had activation problems.Vista and Win 7 have these problems as they implemented this limitation sh*t for some reasons i don't se a point for to have it in.
If you use Vista Home than there should be no Problem with the downgrade to XP or are you useeing a Laptop??

When i go to install it with the orignal cd it sayin it wont do anything I have a newer version. Im way behind in the pc world , I have real life issues retaining long winded information i read.
I dont have time to learn all this new crap on how to fdisk properly.  The last time i wiped a drive it i used comand prompt and typed fdisk , that dont work now i guess.
 I did go and get a used pos dell with xp on it but its slow 512 ram , it might work good enough for gmax,we will see as i do want to finish this model atleast.

[Terradyhne]

It would cost you money to go back to XP?

My legal version of xp i have already called microsoft 2 times for new code installs for crashed hard drives. If i recall i saw something about they ended that type of support so any install i do with my legal version i only have 30 days to use it.  If there is a way to revert back to xp from vista free i want the info asap 

as i work in the IT range, i know there is a Tools available to downgrade Vista to XP. Why shouldn't you reinstall and activate a XP if you have a legal Version ?? Don't activate via phone use the online activation, i have installed my XP pro since it got it on 10 of my PC's with complete upgrades and i never had activation problems.Vista and Win 7 have these problems as they implemented this limitation sh*t for some reasons i don't se a point for to have it in.
If you use Vista Home than there should be no Problem with the downgrade to XP or are you useeing a Laptop??

When i go to install it with the orignal cd it sayin it wont do anything I have a newer version. Im way behind in the pc world , I have real life issues retaining long winded information i read.
I dont have time to learn all this new crap on how to fdisk properly.  The last time i wiped a drive it i used comand prompt and typed fdisk , that dont work now i guess.
 I did go and get a used pos dell with xp on it but its slow 512 ram , it might work good enough for gmax,we will see as i do want to finish this model atleast.

yeah new Windows idiotism, it won't let you install an older windows without a big workaround, for me this would be no problem useing a new partition but you should always install the older windows first

[Kreeargh]

Can you export your High poly model to 3ds and send it to me ??
I have found 28 degenerated polys in your lower poly version and i think you have much more in that highpoly version and this is causing the crash, as i had the same problems with some models on exporting from max to mod and all had degenerated polys. 

Not only stupid but blind am i , I totaly didnt read this post i guess  sorry Terra no offence intended.
The only change between high poly and low poly versions are the warps. The high poly add around 500 per warp engine. This is not a ported or high poly works its all made for games by me but as typical its a Shame i cant seem to make it look good. Oh well the retired dont care anymore   

[Lord Schtupp]

Hey all 

Kreeargh, you might try turning off Aero in vista, and go to classic view in your desktop properties options. Many 3d apps seem to have problems with Aero in windowed mode. Model looks great so far, Good Luck! - LS

[FoaS_XC]

Oh my god - its Lord Schtupp!

[Bernard Guignard]

Lord Schtupp  Welcome back  I hope that Life has been treating you well 

[Chrystoff]

 

[Kreeargh]

Hey all 

Kreeargh, you might try turning off Aero in vista, and go to classic view in your desktop properties options. Many 3d apps seem to have problems with Aero in windowed mode. Model looks great so far, Good Luck! - LS

Thanks for the support Lord Schtupp but the model is released now up to the public to make it worthy or let it die. I am tired of fighting my own pc to make a model for a game.  http://www.dynaverse.net/forum/index.php/topic,163389819.msg1123004864.html#msg1123004864  If the work i do exports all good if i get the damn crash i am giving up and moveing on to the next design.