Topic: Star Trek Online

[Shadowfleet]

Gentlebeings - I played the Open Beta, head start and started the full up game yesterday on release. Here are my thoughts about the models, art, and more. I'd like to hear yours as well.

1. The models and art work are very, very nice. I really like how you can customize your ships and avatar. BUT - models folks create here rival anything they have in game - WZ and Raven would put their modellers to shame.

2a. Biggest drawback - no singleplayer/offline mode.... The monthly online fees are expensive... and it requires a high speed internet connection. I opted for the lifetime membership after I played the beta and knew I'd stick with it for the foreseeable future. If offline/single player had been included this thing would be the all time ST killer app.

2b. Double tagging folks for money via the criptic store to buy in game items is annoying...

3. It is immersive for sure but some things get annoying - like always beaming down to the same spot on the Spacedock and ahving to run all over the station to get things done.

4. Multply with friends is very easy and lots of FUN!

5. Space combat is very similar to SFC 3 and is full of eye candy. Sme folks will think it too simplistic while others will think it is to hard. I actually kinda like it.

6. I hope Cryptic comes up wiht a way to let users include user developed models and content.

I highly recommend the game - if you have the cash for the online fees, it is worth checking out. Gotta go meet up wiht my son and teach some Klinks a lesson...

[Atolm-Rising]

Thnx for the head's up mate. Solid rundown 
I personally will not buy it, as I don't like the ships(but that's petty...lol), or even more so, the fact that its only online play annoys me to no end ARGH! lol

[Starforce2]

I wont buy it because you need to keep paying to play. Once i buy something, I want to be able to play as much as I want without needing to continue paying a fee..plus, it puts a time limit on the "community" as when the industry feels it's too old, they'll shut down the online bit and then that's that. Plus..I already payed for a worthless trek game (legacy) and wont risk another 50 bucks on something I can't return once opened if it ends up sucking.

[The Northern Star]

  MMO's can KMA!!! I agree with the current trend, online only = GARBAGE absolutely and unequivically. Just like cable and cellphone contracts and dozens of other wonderful services that retailers seem to think are great ideas. They're great for the guy on the recieving end of the till, they do nothing but trap me in something that I may not want. MMO's do the same on the level of a video game which is just ludicrous. I will never subscribe to such an arrangement as a matter of principle.

[wulf111]

MMO's can KMA!!! I agree with the current trend, online only = GARBAGE absolutely and unequivically. Just like cable and cellphone contracts and dozens of other wonderful services that retailers seem to think are great ideas. They're great for the guy on the recieving end of the till, they do nothing but trap me in something that I may not want. MMO's do the same on the level of a video game which is just ludicrous. I will never subscribe to such an arrangement as a matter of principle.

I couldn't agree with you more

[Tulwar]

MMO's can KMA!!! I agree with the current trend, online only = GARBAGE absolutely and unequivically. Just like cable and cellphone contracts and dozens of other wonderful services that retailers seem to think are great ideas. They're great for the guy on the recieving end of the till, they do nothing but trap me in something that I may not want. MMO's do the same on the level of a video game which is just ludicrous. I will never subscribe to such an arrangement as a matter of principle.

I could not possibly say it better.  $59.00, just to download the client?  You've got to be kidding!

[intermech]

After my experience with DAC, I may never buy another Trek game (unless I can get my hands in Bridge Commander). Thanks for the info though, I was curious!

[The Northern Star]

Apparently you get thirty days of gameplay with your purchase (rental) of the game (trial). So, one then pays $50 to $60 for the privlege of playing the THIRTY DAY TRIAL. Afterwards you can continue to play to the tune of $170cdn per year until the publisher decides they've raked enough cash out of us and are no longer interested in supporting further gameplay (which, of course, will occur at their discretion). Again, I have ZERO interest in supporting such a moronic arrangement.

I encourage all viewers of this post to respond and air opinions, pro or con. Forums such as this should be a grass roots source of information to game publishers since we obviously represent a segment of their audience.

[marstone]

since asked about this.

I dislike any pay to play format.  I think a game that is at the leisure of the company sucks.  When they want to come out with a new one or just don't want to costs to support an old one, it goes away.

I will support a pay to play format that includes a stand alone at home single player game/campaign.  That way when the game goes belly up and I still like it, I can at least play it more.

[knightstorm]

They do offer a lifetime subscription plan, but at $299 it is beyond what I'm willing to pay for a game.

[marstone]

They do offer a lifetime subscription plan, but at $299 it is beyond what I'm willing to pay for a game.

Problem with the lifetime plan is that it is the lifetime the company wants to support the game with.  Could end next year if sales suck on the game.

[Tulwar]

They do offer a lifetime subscription plan, but at $299 it is beyond what I'm willing to pay for a game.

If I bought into the era, their take on the subject, and the gameplay were exactly what I wanted, I'd think about it.  For once, I think we agree without reservation.  Unfortunately, so many people pay for this crap that there is no competative revenue model for games that are actually fun.

[Bonk]

Today, the metro paper called Star Trek Online the first online game of the franchise.    What are we? Chopped liver?

I can't find it on their website, but it is in today's print copy. I expect the article may have been pulled form the website due to the inaccuracy.

[knightstorm]

First subscription based online game in the franchise.  Also, I think the majority of SFC players tried multiplayer once got #$$raped, and never tried again.  This game is notoriously unfriendly to noobs.

[marstone]

huh, I never had trouble do the online part.  This was the first online game I have played, so I was a total noob on it.

[intermech]

Talking about online . . . I finally have a high-speed connection to the interwebs. Can someone direct me to a step by step on how I can jump into the fray with my OP or SFCIII?  Thanks!

[Bonk]

For OP: this should still hold in general:
http://www.dynaverse.net/forum/index.php/topic,163359567.0.html

For SFC3 the same principles apply. The trick is that if you are using a router or firewall, you have to understand what NAT is and how it works (for both games).

[knightstorm]

huh, I never had trouble do the online part.  This was the first online game I have played, so I was a total noob on it.

You also had a background in SFB even though you don't feel your skill in it transfers over.  For someone who is used to being able to fly up close to the ai, and nail it with OLs, I had a nasty shock when I got into pvp.

[marstone]

You also had a background in SFB even though you don't feel your skill in it transfers over.  For someone who is used to being able to fly up close to the ai, and nail it with OLs, I had a nasty shock when I got into pvp.

LOL, okay, can understand that.  But heck, I still get smoked in PvP in OP.

[Bonk]

First subscription based online game in the franchise.

That it is, but the article made no mention of that.

Also, I think the majority of SFC players tried multiplayer once got #$$raped, and never tried again.  This game is notoriously unfriendly to noobs.

Well it was clear with SFC1 that anyone who played SFB for many years had a huge advantage over anyone who had not. That was the beauty of it partly. It was a game I could excel at. I trounced many opponents on mplayer with SFC1. By the time SFC2 and the dynaverse had come around I was a more moderate talent among the group. (and I was one of the weaker players in our SFB group, not bad, the rest of them just kicked ass - damn smart buggers.)

I mean before SFC even came out, I could tell you what the loadout of an NCL+ was (as well as dozens of ships from all the races), it's movement cost, photon arming rates and range brackets (boy did I know the range brackets), and hellbores arming, and seeking weapons dynamics, turn modes, racial matchups... all of it. We all knew it long before SFC hit the shelves. How could someone without that background compete? In retrospect, it is surprising how many did manage to compete. I remember defeating many people on mplayer with knowledge of turn modes alone. And the hydran 7th sheild... superior knowledge of the DAC is still an advantage.

I don't know how anyone who had not played SFB would be able to play SFC effectively. Those that have managed to figure out the game without any SFB background are very clever and creative folks. Thus, this (small) community.

[knightstorm]

You also had a background in SFB even though you don't feel your skill in it transfers over.  For someone who is used to being able to fly up close to the ai, and nail it with OLs, I had a nasty shock when I got into pvp.

LOL, okay, can understand that.  But heck, I still get smoked in PvP in OP.

So do I.  The point I was making is that I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of people who bought the game got taken down humiliatingly fast their first time out, and never played the game online again.

[Bonk]

So do I.  The point I was making is that I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of people who bought the game got taken down humiliatingly fast their first time out, and never played the game online again.

See the trick was that most of that happened on mplayer, with the dynaverse and associated etiquette much of that could have been avoided.

Any time I got my butt kicked on the Dynaverse in the early days the victor was usually very good about it and encouraging. Those Hawaiian Klingons towed me off the map more times than I can count!  (partly just the nutter factor of the old PP scales) They were always nice about it though. And in the days before the disengagement rule it could get pretty comical ( as I would keep coming back, then they would start chasing me...). They were very efficient at getting me off the map, lol.

[The Northern Star]

Well, there you have it, there's so much interest in STO here that we've resorted to disscussing SFC in a thread about STO.  To be expected I suppose . . . perhaps I should send an e-mail to Cryptic offering my regards to Captain Dunsell. 

[Rod ONeal]

Pay to play is a rip-off. If I want to pay to play I'll put a coin slot on my PC and use the money to upgrade my own system and games.

I think $50 (or $80 or $100...) to buy the game and they release an update/expansion every year or two and charge you another $50 (or whatever). Why no single player? Because they couldn't be bothered. They need to be told that this business model sucks, by nobody buying in, and hopefully it'll be a big loss and go away. 

[Kreeargh]

If you cant mod the game with user work its a rip off.  The game devs want total control over the art . I can see the need to pay for live server use but if there is no single player off line story to play atleast its a TOTAL RIP OFF !!
Edit: The $ is the issue here 50$ for the damn cd then ???$ to play the damn game . IF users had some controll over their own charicters ie be able to replace their own charicters with user made models ect for game play it might be worth a few $ But simple doom switch out looks and skin changes isnt worth the $.
Edit agian: I bet there is or will be a option in the game where u can PAY$ for new ships or charicters to be built if that is the case  All got riped for what the fans of this game here do for free and of free will. 

[GotAFarmYet?]

Well I might pay to play a game, I usually avoid them, especially if I have to buy the game to begin with, I do not want to pay twice to play a game once.

If you have to buy the game it should have a single player version. If it is a pay to play on-line game then it should be free to download and the fees per year should not exceed the price of a normal game. The makers of the game should also realize that they may not have players after that first year unless they made a universe and in depth playablity. The fees per year should decline as more will be playing or they will need to keep the current players by offering discounts. A pay to play game should also have continous tech support as you are buying a game each year they should dedicate resources to support it.

[Tulwar]

I agree that everybody has to boycott this type of game, but the revenue model is so lucerative that it doesn't take that many chumps to make it profitable.  How much money did Taldren make from sales of SFC2?  They published beautiful books and enclosed CD's in nice boxes after they produced the game, and still made a profit.  With STO, they don't have to produce any physical artifacts, and still charge $300.00.  Face it, lavishly produced single player games, with an online mode are a thing of the past.

This isn't to say that there is no buisness model for a single player game with on-line content.  It just means that no highly capitalized publisher will develope one from scratch.  Should a bunch of hackers get together and make a game for the fun of it, they can either publish it on-line themselves or sign on with a publisher to buy licensed, copyrighted material, buy advertising, and put boxes in stores.  There is no capital to make games like they did in the 20th Century.

[Rod ONeal]

I saw a reference that STO already has over 1mil subscribers. Nobody ever listens to me.

[Tulwar]

I saw a reference that STO already has over 1mil subscribers. Nobody ever listens to me.

There's a sucker born every minute.

[Terradyhne]

Not only that its only online and you have to pay to play it, the whole thing is stupid as it seems the designers are only creative on making good new planet ground terrain and those Fed ships, that are not canon designs, look like Federation Pirate ships, like ships build in the Junkyards of the federation and there are to much.
The designers of this have been as uncreative as the Star Trek makers themselfes for the other Races ships, don't they even understand that there aren't only players that want to play those damn Feds!??
"die, Human die!" 

And this will have enough subscribers to go on for some years, i think, as it has great graphics to look on and the most of those young players will only play it for that fact.

[intermech]

This is something I don't understand. There must be a million fan made designs and hundreds of excellent models that far surpass anything they put in published games. You would think that a sure-fire way to hook the old-timers would be to use (with permission of course) their designs and models. Especially if they have to come up with new classes of ships. Instead they get people to do the modeling who are not fans and not familiar with the styles and have no lasting investment in the franchise.

[marstone]

I have to agree, imagine how much awesome art could be in games if they came to the fans out here and posted on the boards.

"We are looking at highlighting the art and craftsmanship of the fan base of -XXX- game.  If you would like your art considered for inclusion in the up coming game, with full credit given to the artists.  Please send to . . . blah blah blah"  Damn, could get the best art on the cheap.  How many artists wouldn't want their art in say they next Bethesda game, if for nothing else then to show to someone else to get a position.

[intermech]

Yeah, you're right. Most fans would just be thrilled to know their name was in the credits! It must be some sort of guild law or something.

[Tulwar]

This is something I don't understand. There must be a million fan made designs and hundreds of excellent models that far surpass anything they put in published games. You would think that a sure-fire way to hook the old-timers would be to use (with permission of course) their designs and models. Especially if they have to come up with new classes of ships. Instead they get people to do the modeling who are not fans and not familiar with the styles and have no lasting investment in the franchise.

Where do you think the word, "trekie," comes from?  The corperations that own the rights to ST haven't had the slightest respect for ST fans.  People like us are too far off in our own world for them to bother with, and the rest will spend a fortune on any pile of manuer they have to sell.  Why couldn't the makers of that horrible film ST TMP just grab a plotline from a ST?  They don't want fans to create, they just want fans to buy.

[knightstorm]

Where do you think the word, "trekie," comes from?  The corperations that own the rights to ST haven't had the slightest respect for ST fans.  People like us are too far off in our own world for them to bother with, and the rest will spend a fortune on any pile of manuer they have to sell.  Why couldn't the makers of that horrible film ST TMP just grab a plotline from a ST?  They don't want fans to create, they just want fans to buy.

Actually a lot of the problems with TMP had to do with Gene Roddenberry.  At any rate, the studio blamed him which is why he didn't play a significant creative role in ST until season one of TNG.

[intermech]

Well, in general, I think they killed the loyal fan base with Enterprise and the new movie. There are all of these splinter universes, SFB, STO, nuTrek, etc., effectively making any new production inconsistent with the majority of Trek and further alienating fans. Don't get me wrong, I am not complaining, there is plenty out there for me to enjoy, but from a business standpoint, if your core fan base writes off most of your new products as not-for-them, that can't be good business strategy.

[Shadowfleet]

I have to admit, I'm surprised no on has anything positive to say about STO. The more I see the models and the way the game lets you customize ships and characters the more I like it.

I still think the biggest drawback is no single player. I think the developer could have made some serious money with fans by allowing single player skirmishes for both space and ground combat like SFC 3. And letting you design and build ships and characters offline like spore does in a completely different module that was released before the complete game.

BL - no game is perfect. The continuing paying every month is the biggest drawback to this one. Fortunately I can afford it. Plus, I think the support so far has been very good - it has really improved from the beta until now. Of course some folks are disappointed but you can never please all the people all the time.

If SFC 4 ever materializes, it could really use some lessons learned from STO space combat - and the way it lets you customize ships. It really makes you take more pride in the ship you're flying.

Of course I always like to fire SFC 3 up on my old lappy and bash away making my own custom ships - it just takes a lot longer and time seems to go by faster than it used to...

IDIC - live long and prosper.

[Tulwar]

I have to admit, I'm surprised no on has anything positive to say about STO. The more I see the models and the way the game lets you customize ships and characters the more I like it.

I still think the biggest drawback is no single player. I think the developer could have made some serious money with fans by allowing single player skirmishes for both space and ground combat like SFC 3. And letting you design and build ships and characters offline like spore does in a completely different module that was released before the complete game.

BL - no game is perfect. The continuing paying every month is the biggest drawback to this one. Fortunately I can afford it. Plus, I think the support so far has been very good - it has really improved from the beta until now. Of course some folks are disappointed but you can never please all the people all the time.

If SFC 4 ever materializes, it could really use some lessons learned from STO space combat - and the way it lets you customize ships. It really makes you take more pride in the ship you're flying.

Of course I always like to fire SFC 3 up on my old lappy and bash away making my own custom ships - it just takes a lot longer and time seems to go by faster than it used to...

IDIC - live long and prosper.

STO is the most expensive game I've seen, and you have to buy the client at $59.00, just to check it out.  Nothing I've heard about it is very interesting.

I'm not particularly thrilled with TNG and post TNG models, either.  After the Enterprise-D, ships became retro.  The ideas of ST ship architechture had already been taken to their limit.

The idea of customizing ships is interesting until you look at the execution.  I'm not going into an SFC2 vs. SFC3 debate, except to say that I found the SFC3 system of customization to be pointless.  I have no reason to expect STO to be any better, and I'm not spending $59.00 to find out.

As long as the big companies can make huge profits selling crap, no small time developer can compete.  I would also expect them to use any dirty trick in the book to derail SFC4 and Excalibre.

[KBF_Gow]

Ships have to have custom components in an MMO, the formula to keep people on the hampster wheel is endless grinding for Phat Lewt.

 If you can't put that Phat Lewt in your ship, MMO players would not play.

This is not ST.  This is UO/EQ/WOW with a ST skin.  They don't particularly care about Trek Fans if they can pull in the normal MMO demographic.  This means canon will take a far second seat to shiny.

You can expect to see bizzarro uniforms and a multitude of stupid particle effects you can apply to your chars eventually, and probably purchaseable by Microtransactions.. that is the new model, pay a sub AND pay for fluff, and people spend literally thousands per year on that garbage.

If you care to see the future of ST Online, check out Star Wars Galaxies and see how far from canon game developers can really go, and with full blessing of the license holder.. money trumps canon, and these games, with the exception of Eve, are aimed right at that multi million subscriber WoW demographic.   MMOs will incorporate elements solely to attract the average MMO player, without regard to anything canon.

I would bet money the average PvP kiddie who rolls Klingon has no clue what era his kewl Enterprise series Raptor is from, and if they did, could care less.

[intermech]

with the exception of Eve

Just because I don't know and am curious particularly about EVE, why is EVE different?

[FA Frey XC]

Ships have to have custom components in an MMO, the formula to keep people on the hampster wheel is endless grinding for Phat Lewt.

 If you can't put that Phat Lewt in your ship, MMO players would not play.

This is not ST.  This is UO/EQ/WOW with a ST skin.  They don't particularly care about Trek Fans if they can pull in the normal MMO demographic.  This means canon will take a far second seat to shiny.

You can expect to see bizzarro uniforms and a multitude of stupid particle effects you can apply to your chars eventually, and probably purchaseable by Microtransactions.. that is the new model, pay a sub AND pay for fluff, and people spend literally thousands per year on that garbage.

If you care to see the future of ST Online, check out Star Wars Galaxies and see how far from canon game developers can really go, and with full blessing of the license holder.. money trumps canon, and these games, with the exception of Eve, are aimed right at that multi million subscriber WoW demographic.   MMOs will incorporate elements solely to attract the average MMO player, without regard to anything canon.

I would bet money the average PvP kiddie who rolls Klingon has no clue what era his kewl Enterprise series Raptor is from, and if they did, could care less.

I completely disagree with this, and in my personal opinion, Star Trek : Online is f*cking amazing.

I'll discuss this in my next post.

Regards,

[Tulwar]

Well, there you have it, there's so much interest in STO here that we've resorted to disscussing SFC in a thread about STO.  To be expected I suppose . . . perhaps I should send an e-mail to Cryptic offering my regards to Captain Dunsell. 

It's not so much the interist in STO; it's that there is so little going on here.

[Darkdrone]

Hey all

well i got to say been playing sto from beta on and off for awhile and now got the full game
i`ve loving the game its pretty good

space combat is good and i like the feel too it

and i really like the land side of it
being a player of world of warcraft for few years paying for the game
i`m use too it plus it gets updated all the time

if the same is done with sto it should get better as time goes on with alot more stuff added to the game

as for non-trek design??? alot of the ships are in there plus alot of new designs added to the game

you can make up your own race even if you dont want to be one from the show

yes you cant mod it but in the long run playing mmo you dont have time to mod
the game too busy playing it.

enjoy it for what it is a good sci-fi space mmo

DD

[Terradyhne]

enjoy it for what it is a good sci-fi space mmo

you say it its yust a sci-fi mmo but than i have toask why these idiots have to stick the name Star Trek on it !??

and its like i thought, the wow mmo player will like this but to hell this is nothing but more destroying the spirit of good ol Star Trek and the thoughts of the young guys on this as they see only the mmo parts and the great graphics of this game.
but for me its not worth it to pay to play anny online game.