Topic: Best Nvidia Card

[Dash Jones]

In the market for a new computer, but been out of the tech updates in the past little while as I've been busy in school and now work and such.  Looking for the newest and greatest in the Nvidia arena (I imagine).  I'm wanting to know which ones are the best ones recently, the best ones for the money, and which have had the most problems and as such should probably avoid.

DRIVERS ARE IMPORTANT, so which ones are doing the best with drivers.  If OTHER cards have actually surpassed them as far as ease of driver installation, ease of use, and ease of installation (NOTE, simplicity and EASE of Use as well as how good the drivers are is FAR MORE important to me than the actual card specs which is what made me an Nvidia fan in the first place) then please tell me about those cards instead.

Thanks.

[Centurus]

The GTX 295 is the last nVidia card that I heard of that was their top line card, and I read this only a few weeks ago.  However, the card is outdone by one of the new ATI Radeon HD 5000 series cards, I think the 5890 or something like that, and costs less as well.

[Rod ONeal]

If you are a fan of Nvidea wait a few more weeks (6 to 8 hopefully) and they'll have their new card, Fermi, out. Everything they are offering right now is outdated. They are about 6mos. late with their new release. Hopefully they'll get it out shortly though.

As Centurus stated, ATI has released their latest architecture in the 5000 series. The Fermi will be the direct competition for the 5000 series. Most think that Fermi will be faster than the ATI offerings. How much so though is the question. Most people also think they'll be a lot more expensive. Estimates I've seen, and these are pure conjecture because Nvidea hasn't released any performance details yet (which is strange), is about 20% more performance at about a 33% price premium. If you really prefer Nvidea though, and you have deep pockets, it might still be worth it to you.

Either way, if I were looking to buy a state of the art video card right now, and my current card would suffice for a bit longer, I'd wait to see what Nvidea was going to have in Fermi before I plonked my money down. If I weren't looking for the absolute top of the line though. I'd probably opt for a ATI 5000 series now. ATI generally offers better bang for the buck.

What size monitor are you running and what resolution do you run it at?

What games are you currently playing? What games are you planning on playing?

Are you going to be upgrading any other components soon? (Like monitor?)

What size power supply are you running? You very well might need to figure the price of a new one into your upgrade. Dual GPU cards (like the gtx295) suck up about 300 watts all by themselves.

What operating system? You won't get the latest direct x from XP, for instance, and you might be fine with cards from the last generation. I wouldn't want to pay a premium for one though.

[Javora]

One thing I've been reading for a couple of months now is that ATI underpowered the 5000 series when it was first released.  It appears that ATI is waiting for Nvidea to release their next video card before clocking the 5000 series cards at what they were designed to run at.  Expect ATI to release a "new" video card right after Nvidea releases the Fermi powered card that outperforms the initial Nvidea release.

I'm expecting a tough video card fight for the next one or two years.  And no I am not a ATI, fan I like both companies but I love competition.

[Rod ONeal]

I too have heard rumors of an ATI "refresh" of their 5000 series. I don't know if they really do have anything more to offer though. The 5000 series seems to be about at ATI's design limits. They can run at much higher clocks than they do. The MSI 5870 Lightning is supposed to roll out clocked at 1ghz from the factory. That's a full 15% overclock. I don't think ATI held back the clock speeds though so they could do a refresh with higher clocks. I think they did it to keep power demands in line.

That's another thing I've read about Fermi. The single GPU card is reportedly using 280 watts (and requires specially designed and certified cases to keep them cool) If that's true, you won't be seeing any dual GPU Nvidea cards. That'll make the 5970 pretty safe in it's spot as the fastest single card.

It's so much fun to speculate.

Yes, the competition is vital to us consumers. The 5000 series are selling for around 10% above their original suggested retails. This is 5 mos. after their initial release. We need Nvidea to bring some competition to the table.   

[Dash Jones]

I'm looking for a completely new system, top of the line, anywhere from 2000 to 3000 Euro in cost.  I might go upto 3500 Euro, but that's about the limit for the system.

Screen will be a minimum of 17-20 inches HD, with television options.  Probably will go up to around 700 Euro to 750 Euro for the monitor.

I haven't been able to really devote time to play a lot of games during my final years in school, though when I finish this first year of work/medical slavery, I should have a lot more time and plan on playing many that I missed such as the Witcher, Mass Effect, maybe Mass Effect 2, Dragon Age, planning on getting Starcraft 2, and Diablo III and want top of the line systems to run them on.  Maybe some good FPS shooters as well...No MMORPGS or MMOS though, not really a fan of those.

the Call of duty series, whatever is the most current amongst those as well.

PS:  Yep, have a ton of time where I can wait and see what comes down the pipe next, so wait another two or three months to see exactly how good or bad the Fermi is, so it's called the Nvidia Fermi?

[sierracharlie]

The Fermi and Tesla cards are really intended for supercomputer GPU processing via CUDA. Probably the most cost effective Nvidia card at this point in time is the 275. Unless you are really trying to build a supercomputer...

[_Rondo_GE The OutLaw]

So what kind of power supply is your system going to have?

[Centurus]

If you're gonna be running high end graphics, you should consider a screen of no smaller than 22 inches to be honest.  Anything less wouldn't really take advantage of the graphics power of the card you eventually get.  As for the PSU, from the sound of it, you're gonna need a great deal of power, so a 1200 watt PSU would be ideal, unless they make more powerful PSUs these days.  It's been almost 2 years since I've looked at various components seriously for my computer.

Oh, and a further note on PSUs, get a modular PSU, so you won't have cable clutter.  Also, when it comes to the CPU heatsink, you gonna go with fan or liquid cooling?

[marstone]

go with liquid helium to cool it.

[Bonk]

...probably best to cool that in turn with liquid nitrogen to save on helium. 

I know, we're not helping...

A more helpful answer is a question: how much do you want to spend on your video card? Oh wait, I see you already told us you want to blow the load on a new system.

If Nvidia is a must lesse... What would I buy with $4446.45 CAD? Wow, that should buy a pretty serious system. Sure you don't want to get a used car? 

Well the most expensive system at the first local shop I would check here is only about $2500 CAD:
http://www.greenlyph.com/new/product_info.php?products_id=1097
(a smokin system at that... I couldn't see the need to spend much more on a home gaming system.)
Oh wait... no display... add a $2000 CAD HDTV and there you go. (or maybe a $2000 total on a TV and stereo or just a big-ass high quality monitor - maybe even crt)
That is what I would do. ^

Now let's see if I wanted to go really over the top... (You're into Pestalence territory here...)

Oh well there's the obvious $4000 US Alienware PC:
http://www.dell.com/us/en/home/desktops/alienware-area-51-alx/pd.aspx?refid=alienware-area-51-alx&s=dhs&cs=19
(good lord man... somehow I'd trust my local shop choice more...)

If I was going to spend $4000 on a single computer myself, I think I'd get this:
(I cant find a price from HP or IBM easily enough online in this range, I'd have to call)

But wow, here's an interesting way to blow 4 grand:
http://cgi.ebay.com/Psychlone-Personal-Supercomputer-Tesla-Windows-7_W0QQitemZ180385336890QQcmdZViewItemQQptZDesktop_PCs?hash=item29ffcdce3a
(not exactly what you're looking for, but kinda cool... I bet it's overpriced there though...)

The card looks interesting:
http://www.nvidia.com/object/product_tesla_c1060_us.html

OoooooooooOOOoooohhhh, look at this!:
http://www.asus.com/product.aspx?P_ID=5tNPlJiMwf2v4zDo&templete=3
no price tho, but other machines on this page are in the range:
http://www.nvidia.com/object/tesla_supercomputer_wtb.html
I'd want the ASUS built one.

Vicarious shopping is fun! 

Seriously man, you're into the medium business or small university research computing budget range.

Actually - to make a long answer short - I think you want two of these:
http://www.bfgtech.com/bfgegtx2951792ocfube.aspx

Hey, maybe one of these is for you:
http://www.bfgsystems.com/phobos/index.html
They've got "concierge" service! 
http://www.bfgsystems.com/phobos/establish.php?bid=1
(go with 2 x 295's)

Actually, I'd take a good look at that one. They've got (gaming!) systems from $3000, $5000 and $8000!!! They look pretty damn slick.

OMFG, I had no idea the home computing market had gone so far. Somehow it seems a tad excessive? I mean really, when you can buy a supercomputer for the same price? 

[Dash Jones]

Hmm, been out of the computer gaming scene too long, some of the stuff lost me, I went to customize the Dell Alienware, and it puzzled me right off the bat.  It looks like to get the quad core I have to get it overclocked right from the start?

Next they ask me if I want Win 7 Home?  I'm paying how much for this and they want to know if I want Home edition?  Pshaw...I chose ultimate.

It looks like the Nvidia GeForce GTX 295 SLI is the way to go, or the only option, what exactly is SLI now?

At least I think I still understood the RAM options,

The Monitor didn't seem that bad in cost, but it also didn't tell me all I wanted to know, is it also inclusive of a HDTV hookup, and I don 't think it's Plasma, how good are the Dell LCD's?

The 27 Inch under the advanced options looked better, and it is an LCD...WTH is the Nvidia 3d thing...with 3d glasses?  Is that serious?  The 3d in theaters when I have to wear glasses already give me a headache.

Why would I want something other than Soundblaster with what I'm paying there?

What's the difference between a Killer Xeno pad and other pads?  What is so special about the Alien TactX mouse as compared to your average wireless laser mouse?  Of course I'm getting a wireless card in it.

Hmmmmm, the Blu-ray vs. the normal CD/DVD burner is a MUCH harder choice.  I plan on getting another PS3 and hooking it up to the monitor if it has TV outputs and can double so I already will have the player there as well...but not certain about the Blu-Ray burner, not certain how much viability Blu-Rays will actually have, I'm leaning more towards something like flash drives being the next big thing that take over from DVD's if anything...but Blu-Ray DOES have a lot more capacity...how easy is it to cross with your burned Blu-Rays...I remember the early DVD burners where if you burn it on one it may not be compatible with another?  Is Blu Ray currently at that stage or past it?

What is this Dell Online Backup thing?

I really like what I saw at Dell there, but I have a few questions (as shown above) and a few concerns, and one dislike.  I didn't like that the alienware ONLY OFFERED me one choice of color...black.  That seems a little annoying.  Also...do they ship overseas?

How safe is that and how much will that cost for safe shipping?

The end cost wasn't that bad, ending up at around $6000 USD.


The Phobos gave me a lot of graphics card choices...I must admit I was rather lost.

It seemed like Dell offers faster processors then Phobos?  I'm also surprised the processors aren't faster, I thought they had 3GHz processors a few years ago as well, my old one is around a 2.2 I think, I thought they'd have improved them a LOT more since then.

Nvidia didn't give ANY options of powersupply, hopefully they have one that gives enough power, it looked that the biggest one Phobos gave was 1200, but it looks like some here are suggesting having a bigger power supply than that.

The only form of cooling is liquid cooling on the Phobos...I kind of like non-liquid, but I can live with the liquid cooling.

Phobos also seems to give the illusion of selecting your motherboard...but only gave me a choice of one MB...but it looks to be nice...a MSI eclipse SLI

Do I really need another card for dedicated Physix processing?

Creative X-Fi Titanium with the PCI express is what I chose for the soundcard.

What is the advantage of having a dual gigabyte wireless?  Why not just one card...as it looks as if the more expensive options on the Phobos have anyways?

Definately WANT a TV tuner, one of the big things I was after.

Another hard choice...go with the SIZE of the normal hard drives at 2TB, or go with a Solid State which I hear is much better overall with durability...that's a hard choice.

I went with a 2 TB and a DVD/CD burner

Obviously Win 7 Ultimate again, what is it with these people offering top of the line computers and thinking I want something like Win 7 Home edition?

Nero burning program...Dell didn't offer me that from what I recall.

I don't need office 2007 right now, and probably looking to see what they release next year for office instead.

Games...I'm getting those myself...nice that they have the option for including Apple I-tunes on it for my I-phone.

Looks like I got the 24 Inch monitor there...

Ah, and speakers...didn't recall those included in the Dell specifically too, but important...

Final cost on that is a little over $7000 USD...which is in a way getting a little too expensive probably for the entire package...doable...but I had to skimp on a few of the things that they offered.

I actually think the Dell wins out just a wee bit with the processor appearing to be faster, better options on what they appear to offer for their monitors, have to look at getting good speakers though.

I have some concerns about Dell though, I've heard BAD things about their desktops.  I've heard that they are really bad for upgrading when the time comes, and that they don't really have any durability.

How much of that is truth and how much of that is hearsay?

[Rod ONeal]

Build your own.

[Bonk]

Another option in this price range is to go to a home audio/theatre shop that does installs. Tell them your budget and what you want. They'll take care of it all and you can just plug in and go wow!  (local service is always a plus)

High end PC sound is usually outboard (hideous RF noise in the average PC) and NOT creativelabs (though they are catching up). M-Audio was the standard for a time. Not sure now...

For real high end audio I'd go with an outboard M-Audio processor and a quality power amp and either bose or jbl surround speaker sets. But that could bring your budget up considerably. It's also more an audio professional's system than a gaming system too...

Have you read over tom's or anand's hardware sites lately? I have not...

http://www.anandtech.com/
http://www.tomshardware.com/

[Rod ONeal]

OK, here's something that I put together. Not saying that it's the definitive 3K PC, but it's what I would buy today. 

Case: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811163161
I love the quality and design of Silverstone cases. This would be my choice for a high end PC.

Mother Board: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128423
6GB/s SATA USB 3.0 You might as well have the latest if you are trying to build the best.

Vid card: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814127449
I prefer single GPU. Avoids SLI/Xfire issues, which seem to occur unless the application/game is optimized for it. This is the fastest single GPU card today. Can run anything at the native resolution of the monitor recommended below (1900 X 1080)

PSU: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817256059
Don't scrimp on the power supply. This is very good quality and can easily power the system spec'd out

CPU: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819115202
i'd get this CPU and OC it to around 4Ghz.

Main HDD: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820220412
SSD's are the single biggest improvement in day to day performance. The rap on them is lifespan compared to an HDD. This one has a lifetime warranty so you don't have to worry about it wearing out.

Storage drive: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822148506 (X2 run in raid 1 mirrored array)
This is the only 6 Gig/sec HDD currently availzble. At 2 terabytes it's probably a bit of overkill, but it fits into the budget. If a 1 terabyte was available for less I'd sub it in. Right now it's not, though. 

RAM: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820231335
I like G.skill RAM. Just personal preference. Other brands would probably do just as well though.

Monitor: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16824236049
Best overall value for a monitor of it's size, IMHO.

Optical drive: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16827106335
You might want to get a blue ray drive, but right now they're really expensive.

OS: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16832116758
Has XP mode. Nuff said.

CPU Cooler: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835181010
I prefer this to a big aircooler. I don't like the idea of hanging a pound of CPU cooler off of my mother board. Seems like a lot of needless strain too me. This will allow good overclocking.

Not sure about local pricing for you, but this comes in at just under $3K USD on Newegg. Should be available for under 3K Euros, I'd imagine?

[Lono]

Rod ONeal - some really great recommendations - and I almost always go with New Egg on everything as well.

I did here that Microcenter had that cpu for a little cheaper at store only - but that special may be over now.

(and many people don't have a microcenter near them)

Gonna have to disagree with your vid card choice tho - ATI is the Sux0r!

Seriously - ATI drivers are STILL crap after all these years - unless your some kind of professional artist - I just can't imagine why someone who likes to play PC games would deal with all the hastles of the "technically superior" but often incompatible ATI cards....

Also - what sound card would you recommend?

[Bonk]

... unless your some kind of professional artist - I just can't imagine why someone who likes to play PC games would deal with all the hastles of the "technically superior" but often incompatible ATI cards....

I suspect you are thinking of Matrox. Best colour accuracy. Just best accuracy and precison. They are more of an instrument or tool. Linux drivers (historically OSS). Also a Canadian company, out of Quebec, and remains so, unlike the west coast AMD sellouts ATI.

I remember dealing with an ATI card back in '99 that could not draw a straight line - seriously. Matrox will always be light years ahead of either ATI or NVIDIA as far as I am concerned.

Not for the 3D gamer, but for the discerning professional.

I ran Matrox cards on all my home built machines right up until 2005 (when I stopped building my own machines). Nothing matches the quality. However, they are not tied to the gaming market, but rather CAD, medical imaging, control and display systems. They still make an excellent card for a desktop unless you want to run the latest greatest game with full hardware acceleration (right down to contrived hardware features/"standards"... e.g. HT&L...)

Like, check this puppy out man:
http://www.matrox.com/graphics/en/products/graphics_cards/m_series/m9188pciex16/ 

Solid Linux drivers have always been one of their strong points. ATI and NVIDIA will probably never commit the resources to quality Linux drivers, as that is not how the gaming market works. (directx, xna, windows, HT&L, pixel shaders, yada yada yada...)

[Dash Jones]

Thanks for the heads up on Ati card drivers still Lono.  I might be tempted to build my own, but when I look at how much time I have available these days, I may find time for gaming, but putting together a computer, whilst I'd know exactly what was in it and ensure what I wanted was in it, I'm not 100% certain what I want in it these days (as I said, been out of the scene a tad bit with school and now this hell job that I have for a year until I am fully up and ready), and not certain I can muster up the iniative to build my own (so much easier to have others build it).  I may look at a local shop to build it on that suggestion, and the $3000 USD idea would probably equal around 2000 Euro, so not too bad at all in cost.

Just looking at a Gaming machine, nothing with professional artist or graphic design stuff.  However I want it to be a GREAT gaming machine, so everything matters of course.

[Rod ONeal]

Well, I wouldn't suggest anyone buy a card from a company that they don't like even before they buy it. I've been in retail long enough to know that no matter what, if someone starts off not liking something, they'll never be happy with it. This was just what I personally would buy if I was building a new PC today. In march it all could change. In all honesty though, the anti-ATI sentiment is unfounded. Their drivers are fine. I guess it wasn't always that way, I wouldn't know. I've had both brands since 2001 and haven't suffered any serious troubles with either.

If you are going to buy an Nvidea don't buy any of the outdated cards they're flobbing off right now. Definitely wait for their Fermi cards. Fermi isn't just GPGPU cards. They will have new Tesla cards designed for "supercomputing", but they're going to be prohibitively expensive for gaming. They have just announced the model numbers of the new consumer cards. They're going to be 400 series (480, 470). You could easily cut back on the storage drives and not loose too much. That could save enough money to go towards the Nvidea card. 

They released some of their older cards rebranded as 300 series in the last few months. These are not new cards. Don't be fooled into buying one. None are particularly high end ones so you probably wouldn't have been interested anyway. They are just so far behind right now that they had to release something new to try and generate sales. So, the rebranding scheme. 

[Dash Jones]

Avoid the 300 series like the plague.  I can do that.  I can also do a wait and see for the Fermi cards.  I guess that would put it around April/May time period for me to buy the computer?