Topic: dead topic

[Starfox1701]

Yea I hope for the sake of the community that he changes his mind and re posts his work. We all might not agree on an particular style but when 1 person leaves like this it diminishes use as a whole because that point of veiw is no longer represented. It is in our diversity of opinon that we will find the greatest strength and the most oppertunities to grow.

[atheorhaven]

I look at it this way.. I might not agree with everyone, I may not like everyone.. but I value their opinion.

I know people that don't care for Mackie, I know people that don't care for Anduril.  Atticbat and Starkiller are two more examples.  I'd work with any of them, and have worked with a lot of people here and at the Taldren forums.

My opinion might not be the same as others, but my experience (limited as it was) was that KBF_Gow is a good modeller/basher and his stuff is needed precisely because it fills a niche where we don't have a lot of people doing stuff.

Didn't see the thread that pissed him off, but personally, I'd like him back and his work to return.

Sometimes, I think we all need to take a step back and realize that this all is a game, our stuff isn't the end all and be all, we'll all never be universally loved by all or have all our stuff loved by everyone.. and our stuff may or may not be good enough to be considered professional.  You know what?  That's okay.

Do it for yourself, or don't do it at all.. because if you're relying on others for approval.. you'll always be disappointed.  And if you let others opinions dictate how you run your life, you'll never finish anything because opinions are like a$$h0le$, right?  Everyone has one. 

So yup, I'd like him back. 

[KBF_Gow]

I look at it this way.. I might not agree with everyone, I may not like everyone.. but I value their opinion.

I know people that don't care for Mackie, I know people that don't care for Anduril.  Atticbat and Starkiller are two more examples.  I'd work with any of them, and have worked with a lot of people here and at the Taldren forums.

My opinion might not be the same as others, but my experience (limited as it was) was that KBF_Gow is a good modeller/basher and his stuff is needed precisely because it fills a niche where we don't have a lot of people doing stuff.

Didn't see the thread that pissed him off, but personally, I'd like him back and his work to return.

Sometimes, I think we all need to take a step back and realize that this all is a game, our stuff isn't the end all and be all, we'll all never be universally loved by all or have all our stuff loved by everyone.. and our stuff may or may not be good enough to be considered professional.  You know what?  That's okay.

Do it for yourself, or don't do it at all.. because if you're relying on others for approval.. you'll always be disappointed.  And if you let others opinions dictate how you run your life, you'll never finish anything because opinions are like a$$h0le$, right?  Everyone has one. 

So yup, I'd like him back. 

I posted the Penquin II to BC because it contains your contribution.  I appreciate the effort you made to improve the little thing.

This is not about criticism of my ships, I expect that, they are crude little low poly bashes done on M6.  All I have ever done is try to make low poly crap look less crappy.   What I cannot abide is personal insults and being lectured at for my opinions.  I don't care for double standards.  This is the same crap that ruined these boards when RK and his little fan club stifled constructive criticism and started the "say WOW or say nothing" status quo.

Thanks for your encouragement. 

[Wicked Zombie]

When someone posts an image of a creative work, they should fully expect criticisms and comments. Inversely, the people posting those comments should fully expect a response, and that response will likely not agree with them. I would say that your stated opinion of the design in the other thread could be easily taken as harsh or insulting - regardless of your real intent. "Absurd" isn't exactly a good starting point for a criticism, especially when there's no suggestions offered along with it. Since the remarks focused on the fundamental aspects of the design to begin with, the modeler/designer could gain very little from your statement that could further improve or change their work.

Just because these guys offered a retort to your posts - all of which could be interpreted in any manor of emotions and tone, a basic flaw in text-based communication - doesn't mean they were personally attacking you. Even if they were, that is no reason to gather up your toys, leave the sandbox and go home. We can't be expected to be all cheery and passive whenever someone says something remotely argumentative for fear of running people off or offending them. At the most extreme, you could just say "whatever, screw this" and leave the thread...but leave the entire community? If everyone here had that attitude, we'd have all left a long time ago. The thought sure as hell crossed my mind on more than one occasion, as you no doubt are familiar with as we share similar opinions on past events...

Far be it for me to join in "lecturing" you on your opinions as nobody hates lectures more than I do. I, in fact, loathe being told what and how to be - a frequent source of friction with my real world employers. My own hypocrisy aside, I hope to at least offer up a viewpoint that clarifies the prickly attitude of my colleagues so you can get a feel as to why they would respond to your remarks in such a way. As the old cliche goes, it isn't what you say but how you say it and a little care needs to be taken to avoid sending a post into the depths of a flamewar. Much the same way that in reality, a facial expression or body language can change the impact of your words and avoid a big misunderstanding.

As I stated in a previous thread recently, a lot of this is a holdover from the old days that left us all with a remnant of arrogance and most notably, defensiveness. Should you, preferably, decide to hang around and continue to contribute, you'll get used to the way we all are...or have become. Hmm, that sounds like something out of a bad horror movie...

[KBF_Gow]

my statement was "mechanical birds in space are absurd."   Not in reference to the model, but to a general concept.

I felt that adding extruded feathers would cross that line, not a reference to the existing model.   That was, to me, my only point.

You make good points WZ, but, I see the same.  People didn't even comment on what I said until a single person took umbrage with it.

Meanwhile I swallow up crap comments like my textures looking like a brick wall or a bridge manned by pygmies without retort. 

Slap the percieved new kid around.. even though I was making ships before some of these people bought the game.

Anyhow I need to stop posting.

Thanks for posting. I appreciate your input as always, and BTW, fantastic work on that GhobmupwI'

[Tus-XC]

I like it thus far, would rather see some weathering.  While it is true that anything in a vacuum would be perserved, space itself is not a true vacuum, nor is it a closed system.  You have many sources that make space a very extreme enviroment to build in, not to mention an enviroment that would degrade the exterior of any ship.  Plus if its klinker, its a warship most likely.  I would expect to see some scaring on the hull.

Besides weathering, I would work on making the 'brick' work blend a bit better.  this could be accomplished by fading them and then making them part of larger panel work.

So you have a problem with these comments (since you didn't specify which persons brick comments you had a problem with), which explains my view and provides suggestions.   Or was it more along this line that you had a problem with?

 

your work is not bad but these texture are to clean for me and the texture paneling on the command pod looks like a brick wall

because if the above comment is what you say you had to 'swallow up' might I point out that you reduced yourself to that level with your comment.

or not.  Bird shaped paintjobs are one thing, mechanical birds in space are absurd.

Im not knocking the obvious talent of the maker.  Very nice work.

Just that the concept is japanimation and extruded feathers would just make it worse.  Fine line between "ooh bird inspired starship" and "OOOh robot space bird" that too many modelmakers have crossed.

Both are exactly the same in content - in that the provide only what you dislike (and i might add that yours was probably the more tactless response of the two) with out any real substance that could be usable by the author.  It seems to me if you think crap comments are posts that provide little useable content for the author then maybe you should stop being a hypocrit and avoid doing the same.  Honestly, what is the point then to your own arguements when you yourself can't even take the high road.  If you are going to practice in said crap comments as you have put it, then expect to get replies to them.  If you think you are getting crap comments, then say so outright with a bit of tact and encourage discussion to get useable feedback.  To do otherwise and then claim insult is probably one of the lowest things you can do. 

Now I know alot of us take pride in our work and have a hard time taking good feedback (sometimes just plain ignoring it for the vision you have).  I myself am not perfect.  But I do have a thick enough hide to not take said comments personally.  However there is a line between actionable feedback (tact is nice, but actionable is a must) versus useless feedback that borders on just plain insulting.  When that line is crossed, don't be suprised to get a reply back.  Furthermore, don't be so thin skinned as to take that as some kind of attack - take it as an opportunity to clarify your feedback and make it actionable.

Edit:  Noticed you removed the personal attack, kudos to you mate for realizing you had gone to far.  Have edited my post accordingly.

[Kreeargh]

Im not one who should post an opinion here BUT.
Edit i am there also.  You poeple want perfect for free have fun creating it yourself  Wine bitch and complain . End game! and i suck he dont ! Have fun modelers/ect fill the gaps or let the game die at this point. Poeple here want cgi results for a damn game u can only see the blurry mirrior immage of what the hell happend over the years ? Even SFC3 isn NOT CGI perfect and why try?

[Tulwar]

Gow is about the only one on this board that thinks like I do.

[KBF_Gow]

I would comment here as well. Since GOW clearly loves pointing me out without saying my name.... You want an apology because you cant take C&C? Nope not gonna happen. You assumed Azel for someone else (namely me) then berate him because he doesn't match your ideas. Now you use the fact I told you straight what the deal was. And you go and transform into the "perfect victim" and up and leave.

Then, you go and use some fairly constructive C&C pygmie sized brige (that says your bridge was too small not that your ships suck).... Brick textures, which wasn't me. Was because you had a section of textures that honestly looked like you had used a brick wall as a template texture.....

Your a hypocrite GOW

1.  Reading the thread where Pepperman keeps asking you what the original design ideas were somehow gave me the idea that you, in some manner, had designed the ship.  First post says "This design is based on Fallen_Warrior's description"  I have no clue if Azel and Atolm are the same person, so would have had no clue that in commenting to Atolm I was commenting to the designer.  Excuse me for that.

2.  Now, I'm berating?  Ok, in Balaks voice, LOL.  I've yet to make a personal insult at anyone involved.  I made a single comment re a possible change in the ship, not the ship as it was.  That is hardly berating the maker.  It was the only comment I made.  I made it in honest intention of leaving the ship as it was presented, without adding "feather" extrusions.  Mea Culpa. my manner was too blunt but my intention was not a blast at the design as it was.

3. In the thread regarding the Detroit conversion, I pointed out several times that I was not the creator of the original design, the nacelle size, the shuttle doors, the Bridge, etc.  Bernd Schieder did.  I even included a drawing from ex astris.  Perhaps you should have mailed the Pygmy crew comment and all of the others to him.  I trashed the ship, as it was impossible to follow the drawings while dealing with the commentary here. 

4.  I have no issues with you.  I don't get the persecution complex.  You reacted badly to my comments re Enterprise and took it personally, and have taken every comment I have made since the same way.  I don't comment on your wip thread, positive or negative, for fear of somehow saying something that will be taken out of context.  The single comment I made praising your nacelle treatment got taken as negative, and I had to explain it was a complement.

5. You saw my "mechanical bird" comment several days before Atolm, yet posted nothing but your own comments regarding the ship.  It didn't seem to be an issue till Atolm took issue.  Why is that?

6. I want and need no apologies.  As stated, just pointing out that I am not the only person capable of blunt and tactless commentary.  However, I made that commentary at the wrong person.  As I said, Deja Vu. 

Good luck with your models.  You are the last person I felt I needed to comment to, and now I will vacate.  I'm too old to change, too blunt to play nice, and too sick to care anymore.  This is your place, your forum, and not the one I left so long ago.  I leave it to you.

[FoaS_XC]

Even though the topic is over, I am making a symbolic lock on this thread.

Let us all remember that the internets is not very conducive towards understanding. Pick better words - we have more than enough in the English language - and use them more carefully. Take great pains to distinguish a criticism vs. an attack. A person reading a post should never be able to confuse the two.