Topic: Klingon FASA TMP era D-12 WIP  (Read 9516 times)

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Offline Terradyhne

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Klingon FASA TMP era D-12 WIP
« on: January 24, 2010, 07:47:09 am »
I'm working on this rarely seen Klingon for some time now and didn't get a idea how to texture the main hull, now i tryed to start the texture for it and want to know if the texture is ok as it is now



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Offline Tulwar

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Re: Klingon FASA TMP era D-12 WIP
« Reply #1 on: January 24, 2010, 08:09:04 am »
What you have looks down right handsome.  Unfortunately the large rectangular area doesn't suggest any pattern.  I think painting that area a darker color might suffice.  If you put any pattern in that area, it should be sparce, such as a ring of boxes.
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Offline KBF_Gow

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Re: Klingon FASA TMP era D-12 WIP
« Reply #2 on: January 24, 2010, 03:09:02 pm »
To me you could back off on the primary reds and yellows, vary the shades and saturation of them in different parts of the ship, and tone back the brightness of them. 

I know you are going to weather this, and spraypainting dirt over those bright primaries won't weather it as much as toning back the brightness of them.

Look at the reds and yellows on the studio model.  Or what WZ did with his primaries on this hull.

Also on the top you could just forget the paneling and put on some subtle hull plating and joints, as done on fed tos ships.
« Last Edit: January 24, 2010, 06:58:40 pm by KBF_Gow »

Offline Rod ONeal

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Re: Klingon FASA TMP era D-12 WIP
« Reply #3 on: January 25, 2010, 02:01:07 am »
As far as the paint job goes it's too clean looking. The pattern's great, but she needs to look a bit scuffed in. The nacelles up and on pylons is a twist for a Klingon, but why not. As always with your stuff, I'm looking forward to seeing how it turns out. 
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Offline Starfox1701

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Re: Klingon FASA TMP era D-12 WIP
« Reply #4 on: January 25, 2010, 04:17:24 am »
I would also think about puling back on the green a bit. You could also try just a basic panaling effect just replicating the hull plates. Has anyone ever come up with a resonable explanation for the TMP jagged hull style? It looks cool and everything but seems like a bloody big waste of metal and such. Whats the payoff? Klingons arn't big on frivolus decoration so why do it?

Offline Klingon Fanatic

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Re: Klingon FASA TMP era D-12 WIP
« Reply #5 on: January 25, 2010, 07:26:02 pm »
I say use the D-6 texture set... Nice model overall Terradyhne considering it's yet another FASA Klingon design without a torpedo tube.

BTW: How soon can we get your Tortuga starbase and the rest of your cool TMP ST: Armada models?

Best wishes.

Qapla'

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Offline Terradyhne

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Re: Klingon FASA TMP era D-12 WIP
« Reply #6 on: January 26, 2010, 01:24:15 pm »
I say use the D-6 texture set... Nice model overall Terradyhne considering it's yet another FASA Klingon design without a torpedo tube.

BTW: How soon can we get your Tortuga starbase and the rest of your cool TMP ST: Armada models?

Best wishes.

Qapla'

KF


You should know that i don't build Klingon ships without torpedo tubes


for those other Armada models you have to wait till i have the time to get them converted to SFC  ;)



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Offline Klingon Fanatic

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Re: Klingon FASA TMP era D-12 WIP
« Reply #7 on: January 26, 2010, 05:19:43 pm »
Terradyhne, I know you put the torps back on the Klingon ships. I was just venting about FASA's overall design scheme. It seems to me in retrospect that FASA Trek was trying really hard to be "SFB lite". I also never understood why SFB Klingon ships weren't uniformly armed with torpedo tubes to begin with.

Keep up the good work. Your stuff is always worth the wait.

KF
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Offline Norsehound

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Re: Klingon FASA TMP era D-12 WIP
« Reply #8 on: January 26, 2010, 05:44:47 pm »
Quote
I also never understood why SFB Klingon ships weren't uniformly armed with torpedo tubes to begin with.

...That's because SFB was made at a time before The Motion Picture. It was assumed only the Federation had Torpedoes, and Disruptors were the Klingon equivalent.

Offline KBF_Gow

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Re: Klingon FASA TMP era D-12 WIP
« Reply #9 on: January 26, 2010, 05:54:33 pm »
Terradyhne, I know you put the torps back on the Klingon ships. I was just venting about FASA's overall design scheme. It seems to me in retrospect that FASA Trek was trying really hard to be "SFB lite". I also never understood why SFB Klingon ships weren't uniformly armed with torpedo tubes to begin with.

Keep up the good work. Your stuff is always worth the wait.

KF

Speed is Life.  Phasers Kill.

I'm happy with no torps, the two ships that have em are junk.  Skull n Bones was the only guy I knew that could fly a KTinga in campaigns, and he always had a flight of 3 if he could.   Photon power management is for Fed powerplants.

For my personal fleet at home, I happily remove all of those silly gaping holes that I can.  I still don't get how Fed ships can launch torps out of scale launchers that look appropriate, and yet somehow we need a mini planet killer screaming neon cones shoved into our ships.

Offline Klingon Fanatic

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Re: Klingon FASA TMP era D-12 WIP
« Reply #10 on: January 26, 2010, 06:23:21 pm »
I know SFB is based on TOS and thus SFB Klingon ships didn't have torps.

I grew up with Star Trek I -IV. I couldn't wait for the next Trek movie back then. I am very fond of the TMP era. TOS was pushing twenty + years old then and TNG was brand spanking new. I liked the idea that in the TMP era the Klingons used torps and were using cloaking devices.

I have often wondered how the TMP era FASA Trek would be better if built from scratch today. I would think it would be more in tune with Klingon Academy, IMHO.

Keep those Klingon ships coming out of the ship yards.

KF
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Offline Tulwar

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Re: Klingon FASA TMP era D-12 WIP
« Reply #11 on: January 26, 2010, 11:50:43 pm »
Personally, I thought the tropedo in ST TMP was just a cheap special effects shot.  They had come up with a wonderful photon torpedo effect, and to stay true to TOS, they would have had to come up with some new effect for the disruptor.  For its value in the storyline, it just wasn't worth agonizing over.  Still, I wonder why every version of the Enterprise has a headlight, but nobody else seems to need one.
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Offline Rod ONeal

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Re: Klingon FASA TMP era D-12 WIP
« Reply #12 on: January 27, 2010, 01:32:47 am »
No photons on Klingons because they weren't on the original schematics. On a side note SVC came up with the varying phaser effectiveness (phaser 1 and 2) because the D7 was "bristling with phasers". If they were the same as the phasers on the Enterprise the D7 would have kicked it's tail.

(Reason for edit) Sorry, just realize that I said disruptors rather than photons. Disruptors were in fact on the original blueprints that SVC had for the D7   
« Last Edit: January 28, 2010, 02:33:03 am by Rod ONeal »
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Offline Terradyhne

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Re: Klingon FASA TMP era D-12 WIP
« Reply #13 on: January 27, 2010, 03:11:13 am »
I like the idea that Klingons have photon torpedoes as heavy weapons, the Disruptors are to short ranged and the only other heavy weapon they have are those damn overpowered Drones.
I don't realy like SFC OP for the fact that these drones are so overpowered and this is even taken higher with every official patch that is available and if you don't like this style than you must not use it.
i don't like the standard TOS SFB style for this but i like the omega sector races as those have mostly all their own heavy weapon.
 



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Offline KBF_Gow

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Re: Klingon FASA TMP era D-12 WIP
« Reply #14 on: January 27, 2010, 04:09:31 am »
No disruptors on Klingons because they weren't on the original schematics. On a side note SVC came up with the varying phaser effectiveness (phaser 1 and 2) because the D7 was "bristling with phasers". If they were the same as the phasers on the Enterprise the D7 would have kicked it's tail.

no disruptors?  eh what?  SVC being Cole?

and Klingon drone "overpoweredness" ends at g racks, in this game.

Offline Starfox1701

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Re: Klingon FASA TMP era D-12 WIP
« Reply #15 on: January 27, 2010, 05:13:53 am »
Well I belive that their is no dialog to support Disruptors TOS it is to me obvious that the weapon used in thoughs episodes is not a phaser in any since of the word unless you are using the term "phaser" as a general chatch all to discribe all energetic plasma discharge beam and pulse weapons. I think this is to broad a classifacation. Terradyhne is right that the weapon would be shorter ranged then photons or drones. As to how they work well that will depend on your personal interpitation of the technology.

Offline Klingon Fanatic

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Re: Klingon FASA TMP era D-12 WIP
« Reply #16 on: January 27, 2010, 08:26:46 pm »
I think my post in the SVC Cole thread is appropriate to post here:

I have never proposed that every Klingon ship be torpedo armed but the ones in the destroyer or cruiser roles should at least have the option to use them. Too bad Trek canon doesn't count TAS episodes that showed the Klingons using torpedos. See this reference: http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/D7_class

I'm not sure why SFB didn't use that material either (using more torp armed Klingons). FASA Trek, IMHO, tried to be SFB lite and many of the ships that should have been armed with them weren't. I think Klingon Academy had the best TMP Era Klingons, again IMHO. I am also a fan of the Klingon-Romulan Technology exchange that was used by FASA Trek. The FASA D-10 Riskadh's, in my Trek universe, have cloaking variants and were not pre-TOS four years war remnants but were multi-role battlecruisers that prompted the development of the Federation Excelsior class.

In my corner of the Trek universe, I have held that the Klingon deflector is located in the command pod area. While I have never seen any technical documents to support MY personal theory, I like to believe that there are two concentric rings inside the dark hole we see on the TOS D-7 and TMP K'tinga. As one looks into the hole, one would find that the outer ring has a band that acts like a Federation deflector. The inner ring would be where a torpedo tube (or other nose mounted weapon) could be hard pointed inside. This minor design change could act as a boost for a missile weapon and use the deflector to make it a super magnetic rail gun for example.

In Trek canon, such a deflector ring is never seen lit up (like the ST I Enterprise deflector is shown to) for several reasons. First, most canon Klingon attacks are shown at speeds less than warp 1 (Kobyashi Maru scenario anyone?). In such an example the deflector may not need to be turned on as a power conservation tactic or the ship is depicted as moving too fast (TOS Klingon warp speed attack espisodes). The second reason, IMHO, is practical. Put too many lights in one place and model details tend to bleach out, so how would you actually show it on film without adding something that alters the established canon model? The closest we ever got to seeing the lit up torpedo tube on a K' t'inga was when Qo' Nos One was about to fire on the Enterprise-A in ST: VI. Finally, the Klingon deflector technlogy may not have light or heat generating properties. The Klingons prefer stealth and surprise attacks so light discipline is a tactical consideration. I do not recall any instance where the Klingons used their deflectors offensively unlike the Federation.

This is just my cafeteria Trek opinion and one of the many IDIC concepts I believe is a nice compromise to some of what I've been reading in various Dynaverse threads.

Qapla'

KF
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Offline KBF_Gow

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Re: Klingon FASA TMP era D-12 WIP
« Reply #17 on: January 27, 2010, 09:00:29 pm »
A game based on Trek Canon combat would have fizzled and died years ago. 

Fire Photons.  Fire Phasers.  Do something Tricksy.  OMGz dey cloaked.  Do something Techie Tricksey.

Woot, We Win!!

Think that about sums TOS combat up.  Balance of Terror was the only bright spot, and that was an allegory to "The Enemy Below" in a lot of ways.

Offline Starfox1701

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Re: Klingon FASA TMP era D-12 WIP
« Reply #18 on: January 27, 2010, 10:38:28 pm »
This may be considered sacralige but it probably a good thing that TOS didn't rely on ship to ship combat to carry alot of storylines as the thought process and tech to do the effects well simply didn't exist in the mid 60's

Offline Tulwar

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Re: Klingon FASA TMP era D-12 WIP
« Reply #19 on: January 27, 2010, 11:51:59 pm »

In Trek canon, such a deflector ring is never seen lit up (like the ST I Enterprise deflector is shown to) for several reasons. First, most canon Klingon attacks are shown at speeds less than warp 1 (Kobyashi Maru scenario anyone?). In such an example the deflector may not need to be turned on as a power conservation tactic or the ship is depicted as moving too fast (TOS Klingon warp speed attack espisodes). The second reason, IMHO, is practical. Put too many lights in one place and model details tend to bleach out, so how would you actually show it on film without adding something that alters the established canon model? The closest we ever got to seeing the lit up torpedo tube on a K' t'inga was when Qo' Nos One was about to fire on the Enterprise-A in ST: VI. Finally, the Klingon deflector technlogy may not have light or heat generating properties. The Klingons prefer stealth and surprise attacks so light discipline is a tactical consideration. I do not recall any instance where the Klingons used their deflectors offensively unlike the Federation.

Interesting take on the Klingon nose.  It also explains why the Klingon torpedo tube is wider, by an order of magnitude, than a Federation torpedo tube.  Having the device charge-up, putting out more energy as the ship accellerates, makes sense, like the automatic wing-sweep program on an F-14.  I also like the idea of Klingons using stealth, even when not equipped with a cloak.

As far as Klingon deflector never being lit in the movies, I don't think that it is a matter of cinimatic lighting technique, but more of the fact the producers are not wedded to ST movies for very long, and really just don't care.  In ST II WoK, a deflector dish on the Reliant could have confused the audience as to which ship they were looking at, so rather than trying to come up with something distinctive, they simply discarded it.  There, I think it was a matter of a deliberate omission.

My main take on post-TOS productions is that model-making is less of a concern to the producers, and farmed out to subordinates.  The "hero" ship gets all the deep thought, while everything else is simply built to meet its role.  In later ST series, they unpacked a lot of old models when the script called for something.  In ST Enterprise, they unpacked the old K'Tinga, because a model built especially for the show was not ready in time for production.

Gow is right about SFB being a far more interesting combat system than anything else in the ST universe.  Steve Cole was the first to systematize a ST combat system, back in the 1970's, which explains why a lot of things were not included.  At first, I think he took a lot with a grain of salt, because it just didn't fit in with his take on things, until after he established his basic concepts of ship structure, then warmed up to new ideas to create additional material.

I don't know if the weapons on the Klingon's warp engine nacelles were disruptors, but its as good a name as any.  I too, accept the concept that SFB "phasers" are a collection of any number of weapons that identical as far as game-play is concerned. 

I don't know where I saw the critique of Wikia, but I have to agree that it mashes 45 years of a fantasy together.  I don't think anything in the ST universe should be teased into making coherant sense.
« Last Edit: January 28, 2010, 09:48:15 pm by Tulwar »
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Offline KBF_Gow

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Re: Klingon FASA TMP era D-12 WIP
« Reply #20 on: January 28, 2010, 12:09:53 am »


 producers are not wedded to ST movies for very long, and really just don't care.

QFT, and that explains more trek than the terrabytes of fan produced nonsense rationalizing producer apathy ever will.

Oh and the original studio model for the d7 didnt have a gaping hole, just shadowing caused that.  Whatever is in there looks deflectorish to me.
Studio model of the green D7, the Groth, has no hole at all in the bow, maybe they cgi'd it in.
« Last Edit: January 28, 2010, 03:55:13 am by KBF_Gow »

Offline Terradyhne

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Re: Klingon FASA TMP era D-12 WIP
« Reply #21 on: January 28, 2010, 04:29:40 am »
Ok please keep on topic and we all know now who likes which version of Standard ship design for the Klingons and what weapons to add.  ;)
I thanx everyone for their advice on the hull texture style.  :)



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Offline Kreeargh

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Re: Klingon FASA TMP era D-12 WIP
« Reply #22 on: January 28, 2010, 11:43:33 pm »
I'm working on this rarely seen Klingon for some time now and didn't get a idea how to texture the main hull, now i tryed to start the texture for it and want to know if the texture is ok as it is now


Total sweetness !  Your model looks way better than others ive seen even my own crap which im bias i guess  ::) . The textures for what the scmatic shows You have improved the design by 200%.  You make Damn good work with a few poly and 2d art skills .  :thumbsup: :thumbsup:
Time for life!

Offline Terradyhne

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Re: Klingon FASA TMP era D-12 WIP
« Reply #23 on: January 29, 2010, 04:43:32 am »
Total sweetness !  Your model looks way better than others ive seen even my own crap which im bias i guess  ::) . The textures for what the scmatic shows You have improved the design by 200%.  You make Damn good work with a few poly and 2d art skills .  :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

Thanx and that as i hate to make textures, that is the reason why it takes that long to finish my models.  ;)



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