Topic: New, Real BattleStar Galactica

[Lieutenant_Q]

No it's not happening, just a pipe dream of mine really.  I just finished watching the original episodes on Hulu.com.

I was thinking.  So much of the Galactica universe was unexplored, and the new one certainly didn't do the original justice.  I could see making a new series that, while not a direct re-imagining, could be a prequel and an expansion of the original universe.  First off, I for one would have loved to have seen more of the Colonial Culture, before the destruction.  So I would start the series off just a little before Caprica.  Show the Colonies, in a wartime footing, but alive and vibrant.  The Brave Colonial Warriors fighting off the Cylons.  Until the peace, the entire first season would be "normal" Colonial life.  And would end with the battle that destroys all but the Galactica.

The second season would be the flight from the Cylons, the discovery of Kobol, and the events leading up to the discovery of the Pegasus.

The Third season would begin with the Pegasus running off, with Cain, and the events leading up (although I'm not so sure about the War of the Gods ) to and a greatly expanded interaction with the Eastern Alliance.  Including the much anticipated, but very disappointingly denied, battle between an Alliance fleet and the Galactica.  The end of Season three could be either the Intervention in Terra's Nuclear war, or could end with the events in the Hand of God.

Should it move on from there, there's more for Galactica to do, including the return of the Pegasus, prior to the discovery of Earth.

Now, questions:  What form should Earth take?

Should it be Today's Earth?  Should it be some advanced form of Earth? or should it be the way is was in the impostor series, with them finding a destroyed world?

What would you like to see expanded on, or taken from the series all together?

I realized just how much I missed the old series when I heard the first Cylon say... "By your command."   In that metallic voice of theirs.

[Norsehound]

It almost happened. Due to scheduling delays the creative force behind the project, Tom DeSanto, had to focus on X2. Moore and co were brought in to replace them. One 'miscommunication' later and everything DeSanto built for the revival was bulldozed. Enter Moore's 'Vision'.

TOS had a lot of interesting things going for it, but just about everywhere on the internet if you even mention that TOS Galactica was worthwhile two to a dozen voices come down on you and crap on it for being 'cheesy' without looking at the bigger picture. Hell, even critical reviewers of Moore's new show made passes at how bad the original series was as if it was some kind of mandate to do so.

I liked the mythology, the mysticism, and the ancient astronaut theory all prevailant through TOS. The one season we got raised interesting questions that are sadly never answered. What the hell were the ship of lights? What was the connection between Count Iblis and the Imperius leader? Will Iblis return to tempt the fleet again? What are the limits of his powers? What about the thirteenth tribe of man and how were they related to us? Where did humanity come from and where was it going? What was Earth like and would they be able to help against the Cylons? (1980 ultimately tried to answer this in a budget-conserving way and ended up giving die-hard Moore fans a lot of fodder to denounce the original).

I, too, would have liked to see more of Colonial life and how these 'brothers of man' lived. The Ancient Astronaut theory, though disproven scientifically, is incredibly interesting to me. They could have alluded to so many ancient/lost cultures and played on the trope that Humans and life as we know it came from elsewhere. Since it's sci-fi, they could have also made the theory actually work through the magic of Plot Devices. "midochondrial eve" is not only just as unscientific and disproven as the ancient astronaut theory, but comes off as being tacked on at the end without the weight of the story behind it. TOS was far more convincing, IMO, that the colonials were a sister civilization.

All of this more or less seemed to have been ignored for Moore's political-platforming of the new series. No alien culture, no brothers of man, no great struggle to survive. Just Americans in Space, political allegories, and Everyone (especially Us) Sucks. I guess the weight of the name "Battlestar Galactica" went only as far as the title.

[Dash Jones]

I'm thinking there was a lot of Mormon mysticism in TOS.  From what I recall, Kobol literally is someplace important to Mormons, and they have the belief that there are the lost tribes, that will return from the North Countries (with various interpretations of what North Countries mean, some say it means the stars, some say it means the North Star specifically, and others say it's a literally meaning of somewhere in the North...some even search for a hole in the earth thinking they all disappeared down a hole around the North Pole).

This would be more of a star idea, where the lost tribes went to the stars, and hence their return would be from the stars.  In the special features of BSG TOS (yes, I got the TOS DVD's to watch) they actually show some other Mormonism ideas in deleted scenes for the series, inclusive I think of a marriage in one part.

The council of the twelve, if I recall would be similar to the Mormon Council of the Twelve, and other offices and ranks correlate to some of those in the original series.

It could have been interesting to see how it progressed, but I think by the end they were running out of ideas anyways.

Buck Rogers kind of takes the humanity approach in it's second season, if I recall (I have to watch those DVD's again as well) in searching for the lost tribes.

I suppose that could be seen as the alternate side with the moon landing recording having time lapsed and so of course it could have been centuries since they landed on the moon to when they get that recording on the last episode of TOS.

Of course BSG80 sort of kills any of those ideas, but didn't Buck Rogers second season happen after BSG80?  IF so it would seem that Larson had regrets or was already trying to rewrite the idea.

Then again, I think he was somewhat involved with the new series too, which also had some interesting religious overtones in and of itself.

[Lieutenant_Q]

Larson had almost zero control over BSG 1980, which is why almost everyone declares that it is not the continuation of the main series.  The only thing Larson was able to do with 1980, when the ratings tanked, the execs begged him for help, he brought back Starbuck, and kept the whining, underwhelming, actors of the main story line away from the set for a week.  The result, was the best episode of the series, but it wasn't enough to save the series.

He was involved in the original write up of the new series, but after Ronald Moore took over, he once again was put in the back seat, and was next to helpless as Moore changed the whole story, despite Moore having never (apparently) watched a single episode of the original.

[Tulwar]

The new BSG was a reflection of the nihilism particular to generations X and Y that is not so common amongst those of us old enough to remember TOS.  While the defining storyline is bleak to begin with, the new series took it straight to the extreme.

This is exactly why the series sucks.  While there may be artistic merit to such a perfect portrayal of existance devoid of meaning, it's incredably depressing.  The program was nothing but a grind, without even an instant of comic relief.  Every episode was one horror after another, with the theme that the future would only be a repeat of the past.  Humanity would never progess, just retrace its steps into the same horror.  An education in nihilism is hardly entertainment.  This theme could have worked as a miniseries, but having a depressing grind go on for years was just too much.

[Villa64]

A "grind".  Good word to descibe the new Galactica series.

[Norsehound]

Something that's always mystified me, though. Why do so many people passionately defend the new series, calling it "the greatest show on television", if it's such a depressing grind? I've tried three times to sit down and watch it and I couldn't see what was so revolutionary about it. Contradictions and drama without much hope.

On the matter of the topic, it seems Brian Singer will be gearing up to make another re-imagining of BSG. His quote in that article about how to have a healthy respect for the fanbase makes me feel more at ease- I'd rather have something resembling the old than a complete deconstruction. Glenn Larson is also onboard for the project.

[Nemesis]

What the hell were the ship of lights? What was the connection between Count Iblis and the Imperius leader? Will Iblis return to tempt the fleet again? What are the limits of his powers?

I watched the series through recently and these are my thoughts on this.

The original reptilian Cylons were reaching for immortality.  Iblis first created a copy of his mind into a robotic shell then along with the other original Cylons under went "Ascension" like the Ancients in SG-1.  The "Robo Iblis" became the Imperious leader.  The ship of lights is a representation of the Ascended Cylons "plane of existance" in a way that mere mortals can accept. 

Those of the ship of light are dedicated to Good and limit their intervention and try to assist lower races onto the same path using minimal acts.

Iblis didn't dedicate himself to Good but to personal power and is limited by the others in who he can affect and in what way.  When he broke the rules the others blocked his powers. 

As to returning to tempt the fleet again I would doubt it as among his limitations is apparently the ability to move through space unassisted.

Speculation resulting in possible Spoiler below:










If you watch Apollo keeping Sheba from seeing the wreckage on the planet Iblis was found on it is (IMO) implied to be the wreckage of the Pegasus.  So if you see him again it should be in an episode or series showing how the Pegasus first survived then came upon Iblis and ended being destroyed.  With Apollo and Starbuck knowing that Iblis was involved in the destruction of the Pegasus the chance of their accepting him again is minimal.

[Lieutenant_Q]

One of the episodes that they had on tap for Season two, was the Return of the Pegasus, although Cain would have been radically altered to the point where he would be half Cylon, half Human.  Moments before the Pegasus showed up though, Sheba's Viper would have been blown out of the stars by a Cylon strike force.  With the Pegasus, once again, saving the Galactica's hind end.

I do believe that Iblis was the programmer / corrupter of the Imperius Leader, which ever you believe, and the ship of lights are probably the original Cylons, mixed with some humans that remained on Kobol.

[Bonk]

I could not watch it because of the contrived empowered female character that has taken over sci-fi film and TV. It just gags me. So artificial, so contrived, so offensive it overwhelms the suspension of disbelief and ruins the entire presentation. I'm not sure if other people see this or not. I'm sure they're not gaining any female viewers with these characters. If they are, then I am very sad for those people.

Now, Nurse Chapel, there was a believable female role!

* Bonk ducks and runs....

But seriously, there has to be a happy medium, where believable and inoffensive characters do not detract from the show they are in.

Just to clarify here: I'm not talking about an intentionally offensive character (bad guy) but rather misguided and embarrassing attempts at sexual equality in roles and then horrifically emphasised with bad casting.

Basically, the attempts at political correctness have ruined Sci-Fi. (Excluding Firefly and Farscape). If you are busy trying to satisfy interest groups in your show then your storyline and characters are going to suck. Write a story, not whatever it is the PC police want to see.

[Age]

You mean the female version of Starbuck that is for guys a hot blonde viper pilot.It is like LT Mitchell Top Gun(Tom Cruise).

[Norsehound]

Bleh. The outline that I saw for Season 2 (it's out there on the internets somewhere) makes me grateful they DIDN'T green-light it and the classic show ended where it did. Sheba's death was just one of the things that made it cringeworthy...

Though I don't understand. I liked Sheba and thought she was a strong female. Not only does she get axed in this season 2 outline, but Moore didn't think her character was worth reviving for the new one for some reason (I guess she wasn't enough of a hard-assed....y'know.)

It's interesting you say that Bonk, because some have observed that the female characters on the show are more masculine than the males. I don't find these "empowered women" really entertaining to watch for some reason, like that chick from Pirates of the Carribean 3. Just...something about them... bleh.

On the matter of Iblis....

I thought that the Ships of Light and all they represented were Human Beings higher on the plane of existence. If sufficient technology is indistinguishable from Magic, then so are these people who ride around in the lightships. They command awesome, virtually Godlike, powers. Of course, realizing they have such power, they decide to play a custodial role to the universe and make sure things don't go really horribly bad for everyone.

Iblis, though, has decided to use his powers for gain. Also, rather than stay int he background like the rest of his people, he decides to make himself known among them. The Cylons may have been one of the races he touched and promised power, becoming an icon to this machine-race and serving as the template for the Imperius leader.

The poor saps in the ship (I doubt it was Cain) probably weren't deemed worthy by Iblis to become anything special and he allowed them to crash... maybe after figuring out his secret for themselves, but only too late to do anything about it.

It's worth mentioning that the body in the wreckage was supposed to have cloven hooves for feet and such- but it was cut from the film because it was deemed 'too satanic' for Television.

[Villa64]

If you watch Apollo keeping Sheba from seeing the wreckage on the planet Iblis was found on it is (IMO) implied to be the wreckage of the Pegasus.  So if you see him again it should be in an episode or series showing how the Pegasus first survived then came upon Iblis and ended being destroyed.  With Apollo and Starbuck knowing that Iblis was involved in the destruction of the Pegasus the chance of their accepting him again is minimal.

I had always assumed that the explanation for this scene had hit the editing room floor.

[Voidwar]

I could not watch it because of the contrived empowered female character that has taken over sci-fi film and TV. It just gags me. So artificial, so contrived, so offensive it overwhelms the suspension of disbelief

Agreed 100%  Starbuck WAS A MAN BABY ! Flippin the character to a female just for PC is why ive never seen an episode, and I , as a kid, watched the first airing of almost every episode of the original series.

(Another place this made me want to puke was Jurassic park. In the book, the little boy is the computer whiz, and that is believable, but in the movie, they flip it to the girl solely for the purpose of pushing their PC crap)

On a side note, , , Can someone get me a well done remake of Buck Rodgers in here please ?

 

[KBF-Crim]

beedeebeedeebee....ok buck...

[intermech]

Yeah, Bonk, I agree on the contrived empowered female role. You can pretty much tell when a scifi show has jumped the shark when one of these enters the scene. In Stargate SG1 they had to add Claudia Black, and in Voyager they added 7 of 9. Once a show does that, it means they have run out of good stories and have to resort to the cat outfit. Oh yeah, there was the Vulkan on Enterprise, etc.

[Norsehound]

Well, it's not a problem to have empowered female characters... but a thing I've observed about moore's galactica is that all the female characters were 'empowered' to one degree or another. Perhaps even moreso than the men. The only exception I can think of was Cally, but even she had her cold-blooded murder scene.

I didn't view Cassiopeia from the original Battlestar Galactica as an 'Empowered Female', but I found her character entertaining and still having some pull with the main cast without having to drag them around by the balls or by the scruff of their necks. Even Sheba, a strong character on the show, had her tender moments to give her character better depth. She was hardly a screeching harpy that some accuse Sackhoff's starbuck of being, and never had to go to that extreme to show she was an empowered female.