Topic: If you could command three ships...

[Temy]

Three distinct ships from any SFC game, provided that you have the resources to have their internals changed to TNG standards, regardless of faction, i.e. you could choose to have a PumwI'-class ship (Klingon C8/9/10 dreadnoughts) as well as a Nebula-class ship and a Hydran Tartar-class CM.

[Roychipoqua_Mace]

Are you asking our three top choices of ships to command?

For me, it would either be a Klingon F5, an ISC FF (something really expendable right on the gunline), or some smaller Romulan ship (maybe a Seahawk or an earlier Snipe/Warbird/Battlehawk). I like the small ships  .

[knightstorm]

I'd say the F-DDL+.  Its one of my favorites ships in the game.  People tend to underestimate it because of how slow and underpowered the original DD was, but through replacing two of the photons with F-Torps, and the additional apr, the ship can charge at high speeds with some creative power management.  Additionally, for its bpv, the ship has a lot of phasers and labs, and a really strong hull.  The only complaints I have against it are the lack of amd, and the fact that the shields are weak compared to more modern DWCs, although its other qualities tend to offset this.  Another ship that I love flying is the CLC.  With its combination of speed, phasers, and excellent firing arcs it is definitely an awesome ship to take into combat.  Finally, There is the F-BCF.  Outside of the ubber bchs this is probably one of the best heavy battlecruisers in the game.

[Bonk]

Gorn HDD+ (a good all round bulldog, lasts in a fight - tough to match bpv-wise)
Hydran Tartar (can fly speed 31 and fight)
Klingon D5L (requires a little more finesse than I have)

I like light cruiser duels or massive fleet battles.

[Temy]

And I extend the choices to ships from ST canon material as well.

I'd say an Hydran DNH (especially that it looked like it could break up like multi-vector assault mode does to a Prometheus; MVAM would fit Hydrans like a glove because they make heavy usage of fighters, so breaking their ships up to attack is no more a deal to them than using two, three maybe four squadrons of fighters at a time) a Federation Constitution-refit CB and any Romulan heavy cruiser of the late TOS era (Llaiir'Dhaels/FHAs and the like)

[Nemesis]

K-D7L.  K-FWL.  K-FWK.

[Lieutenant_Q]

I would have to take the F-CC for one.  A little weak in the drone defense department, but for the era Drones weren't fast enough to cause a problem, the CC could out run them.

#2 would be K-C7.  The largest ship I would fly if I had a choice, again weak on the PD, but her excellent Phaser Suite more than makes up for it.

#3 would be the H-LB.  Weak in the Phaser department, but set your fighters to defense and snipe away with the Hellbores.

[knightstorm]

And I extend the choices to ships from ST canon material as well.

I'd say an Hydran DNH (especially that it looked like it could break up like multi-vector assault mode does to a Prometheus; MVAM would fit Hydrans like a glove because they make heavy usage of fighters, so breaking their ships up to attack is no more a deal to them than using two, three maybe four squadrons of fighters at a time) a Federation Constitution-refit CB and any Romulan heavy cruiser of the late TOS era (Llaiir'Dhaels/FHAs and the like)

The problem is that SFB and trek canon are not compatable with each other.  Trying to hybridize them really doesn't work out well.

[Bonk]

The problem is that SFB and trek canon are not compatable with each other.  Trying to hybridize them really doesn't work out well.

I was going to say: true - but I remembered Chris Jones' UAW mod and the server I ran for it, it was over the top cheese for some folks, but it was a lot of fun and looked really cool. Chris did a pretty good job of it. I think UAW is due for another run on Canada-East sometime soon.

[Centurus]

Constitution Class, Miranda Class, and Constellation Class. 

[Temy]

Constitution Class, Miranda Class, and Constellation Class.

The thing is, there are sub-versions of the Miranda designated CLC, NCA, NCL/D/T/+ or NCC in SFC games.

Sub-versions of the Constitution are designated CA/D/R/+, CC/+ or CB.

[knightstorm]

The NCL and NCA series are not Miranda class.  The Miranda class model was assigned to the ships in the stock shiplist because it was the canon equivalent to those classes.

[Temy]

The NCL and NCA series are not Miranda class.  The Miranda class model was assigned to the ships in the stock shiplist because it was the canon equivalent to those classes.

How silly of me to assume that Mirandas were the Feds' light cruisers, with the sub-classes.

And why do the Federation DNs in SFC1/2 look like Luna-class ships (when the Lunas were launched only 100 years later)? The SFB veterans know that the Feds' dreadnoughts are Federation-class (Constitutions with 3 nacelles)

[knightstorm]

The Mirandas were the fed's light cruisers in canon.  SFB is NOT CANON.  Mirandas were probably assigned as the light cruiser in SFC because more people would recognize the model.  Considering the fact that the lunas didn't appear in fanon until after ST Nemesis which was released in 2002, it would be more accurate to say that the lunas looked like the sfc dreads.  Seriously, SFB and canon are great separately, I don't see why you see the need to force square pegs into round holes.

[FPF-DieHard]

F-CC/CC+  between 2260-70.   F-CVA until 2280.   F-CX or F-DNH with the XP refits after 2280.

[Sirgod]

Shoot, Die Hard beat me to it. Ok So I don't repeat his I'll say...

Borg Cube, Borg Sphere, and CAD/+

Stephen

[Kreeargh]

Sorry i have to reply     Schimitar, Borg cube {i hate borg} and Defiant i love those pulse phasers 

[Sirgod]

LOL, I hear that man. 

Stephen

[Tulwar]

L-CWLF  This was my all-time favorite ship in SFC2.  This little cruiser hits hard, and has pleanty of phasers to stave off a missle attack.  It also carries a lot of shuttles, and towing a couple of L-PFE's doesn't hurt, either.

L-FLGF  As frigates go, this is a little monster.  The lack of disruptors doesn't really hurt, because charging them can be problematic on Lyran ships.  All weapons can be used for missle defense, but six phasers and two ESG's are more than enough against most ships, and nasty when use offensively.  Lots of marines and as many as six shuttles make excellent for boarding opperations.  Unfortunately, only two transporters hurts in multiplayer mode.  Of course, having a launch rate of 2, means that launching a WW doesn't have to be suicidal.  The two PF's give it an offensive punch beyond its defensive weapons.

F-FFL+  What a nasty piece of work!  Trac and pack, fire a pseudo torpedo to absorb defesive fire, fire the real ones, as the enemy's AMD works on the scatter-pack, toss another missle, Boom!  Game over.

[Javora]

F-FFL+  What a nasty piece of work!  Trac and pack, fire a pseudo torpedo to absorb defesive fire, fire the real ones, as the enemy's AMD works on the scatter-pack, toss another missle, Boom!  Game over.

Yeah that was my favorite ship in OP.  Played that ship more than larger ships.

[knightstorm]

The FFL+ is a great ship.  My only problem with it is that like all plasma ships, flying it depends a lot on the other guy making a mistake.  Whenever I fly the FFL+ or a gorn, and come across an opponent who knows what they're doing, I find myself really wishing that I had a few photons.

[Tulwar]

The FFL+ is a great ship.  My only problem with it is that like all plasma ships, flying it depends a lot on the other guy making a mistake.  Whenever I fly the FFL+ or a gorn, and come across an opponent who knows what they're doing, I find myself really wishing that I had a few photons.

If you play a fleet action, one of these puppies would discourage Klingons from trying to trac and pack.  At least, not till they took out this thing with long range phaser and disruptor fire.  Still, all the Fed frigates are tough little ships, so it could take a while.

Of course, the AI will run straight into this little bastard, so it's great in single player.

[Roychipoqua_Mace]

Of course, the AI will run straight into this little bastard, so it's great in single player.

Yeah, it's interesting how ships work differently in single player versus multiplayer. I used to hate most of the disruptor races because from a single player standpoint, they take a lot longer to win than the plasma anchor (though scatterpacks make it quicker) and it was also more difficult. But then seeing the Klinks and other races flown in multiplayer, they made a lot more sense.

And I forget the FFR/FFR+ (5 ph1, 4 phG, 1 drone-G on the plus refit), but that is an awesome ship for 2v2 and 3v3 games around 80-85, especially when everyone on your team flies one (a little cheap, but it can be fun).

[Norsehound]

The Mirandas were the fed's light cruisers in canon.

The DS9 Technical manual states that Mirandas were "Cruisers". I've also heard them described as frigates.

Personally I think the notion of the Miranda being the NCL/NCA fits rather well. It's more compact than the Enterprise, has better firing arcs, and greater shuttle space. The fact that the design persisted long after the Constitution suggests that it was the next cruiser design to replace the Enterprise, and maybe the Constitutions got their refits to save on expenses and/or test new components that were approved for the Miranda.

I personally don't like the uniforms/LCARS/Interior design of the TNG era, so I don't think I could answer the OP question completely. I'd choose a Miranda, A Constitution refit, and the Excelsior NX prototype in that order, with their original bridge layouts and graphics.

[knightstorm]

The Mirandas were the fed's light cruisers in canon.

The DS9 Technical manual states that Mirandas were "Cruisers". I've also heard them described as frigates.

Personally I think the notion of the Miranda being the NCL/NCA fits rather well. It's more compact than the Enterprise, has better firing arcs, and greater shuttle space. The fact that the design persisted long after the Constitution suggests that it was the next cruiser design to replace the Enterprise, and maybe the Constitutions got their refits to save on expenses and/or test new components that were approved for the Miranda.

I would argue that the smaller size and the fact that the Reliant was assigned to be at a science station's disposal would indicate that it was intended for less important missions than the ones that the Enterprise generally ran during TOS.  My own personal opinion is that the Excelsiors probably took over the Constitution class's role while the Mirandas remained in service because they could serve their secondary role more effectively.

[Norsehound]

I didn't think the Reliant was much smaller than the Enterprise. The primary hulls seemed to be similar, as well as the nacelles. It would be as if the designers meshed the secondary hull of the Constitution into the primary hull, moved the pylons to the sides, and re-positioned the photon box to the rollbar. Cutting out the navigational deflector and engineering section would make it a little smaller, but not such that it would be a whole other weight of starship...

Though even if it was smaller and performed 'lesser duties' than those asked of the Heavy Cruisers, Miranda still fits as a "light Cruiser" that would support Enterprise's ilk when it came to squadron action and such. I still feel that the Reliant was a cruiser, tasked to do perform missions that the classic Enterprise was called to do but with newer technology and cheaper costs (compared to refitting and fielding the Constitution, that is). Excelsior on the other hand may have started as a Dreadnought (as the flagship of new technology and a strong Federation) but ended up doing the same things cruisers did and better, but at a higher cost. Eventually Mirandas become Frigates while Excelsiors become cruisers... one-upped by the Ambassadors, which were bigger and had new technology. Dreadnoughts fell by the wayside until Wolf 359, when the Federation realized it couldn't rely on Cruisers alone for serious threats.

[Age]

The Mirandas were the fed's light cruisers in canon.

The Mirandas weren't considered light cruiser in Star Trek as replacement for the Constitution class like 1701A.

I would say mine are Constitution,Lakota(Enterprise B) and Akira.SFC mine would be FCC early era,N-CL,F-CC+ mid era,F-CB,F-NCC late era and OP+FCX advanced era.I know it is 5 but couldn't help it.

[Nemesis]

Over time the ships of the Federation became larger.  What was a CA size in one generation could be a CL in the next and a DD in the one after that. 

[Roychipoqua_Mace]

Over time the ships of the Federation became larger.  What was a CA size in one generation could be a CL in the next and a DD in the one after that.

I've heard about Klingons being similar too -- like the F5 starting as a destroyer but being comparable to other frigates by the time early era rolled around. In SFB history, did the Feds eventually stop growing larger, as in switch to BCHs and CXs over DNs?

Oh, I have to add a fourth ship (even though it's top three). It would be awesome to have my own personal Orion DW or FF.

[Nemesis]

I've heard about Klingons being similar too -- like the F5 starting as a destroyer but being comparable to other frigates by the time early era rolled around. In SFB history, did the Feds eventually stop growing larger, as in switch to BCHs and CXs over DNs?

In SFB the ships didn't grow nearly as much.  They typically gain some power systems and weapons as well as shield but little or no hull or other systems.  The movie/TNG versions gain in overall size and would have much more of the other systems as well. 

The Klingon fleet is a bit odd.  In my opinion the D6/D7 were not CL/CA as they are usually classed but more medium cruisers.  They then had a big gap where they should have had a FF and a DD but instead had only the F5.  The F5 while an excellent frigate is light weight for a DD.  It does manage to beat opponents of greater size due to its excellent weapon arcs and maneuvering IF used competently.

Unfortunately while the F5 is trying to be a destroyer the E4 is trying to be a Frigate and it is woefully deficient for that role. 

The FW series is more of a redesign and does qualify better as a destroyer.  I have fond memories of battles using the FWK and FWL against ships much larger.

Oh, I have to add a fourth ship (even though it's top three). It would be awesome to have my own personal Orion DW or FF.

A 4th ship?  I quite like the R-BH.

[Soreyes]

Oh this is a easy one.

#3. Z-HDW-M   MERVS!!!!!!!!

#2. K-D5L    Just a real fun ship to fly

#1. Z-DF+    I have surprised many people in this ship...... ain't that right 762 

[Temy]

And why do the Kirovs (and other Fed BCHs) look like Excelsiors in the game?

[knightstorm]

Because they are the canon equivalents to those ships.

[Voidwar]

While I really like some of the ships already mentioned, allow me to submit my favorite 3 that haven't yet.

F-CFS+    So many people think this thing is a dog.  I will pound a R-KHK flatter than hammered dung with it.
F-CFS+ has 8 photons from range, 4 drones, and can charge a rearward, OV photon at 31.  Game OVER.

R-K7RB   Very strong boat at 170 mid, excellent power and arcs and transporters due to klingon hull.  Only challenger is the ISC , and the match is a standoff, where the ISC wins the open space battle, but if the Rom puts his butt in the corner and reinforces, he can force the ISC to come in, and eventually, under those conditions, 2 F torps is worth more than a ppd.

Syndicate BR2 The STRONGEST ship in the game at 130 mid.  2 S torps, 2 drones and 4 phaser one, 127 bpv.  Holds its own castling, and always has the option of charging everything up, then doubling engines for the screaming tractor 2, speed 31 rundown, culminating in 2 S torps and a scatterpack.

[knightstorm]

While I really like some of the ships already mentioned, allow me to submit my favorite 3 that haven't yet.

F-CFS+    So many people think this thing is a dog.  I will pound a R-KHK flatter than hammered dung with it.
F-CFS+ has 8 photons from range, 4 drones, and can charge a rearward, OV photon at 31.  Game OVER.

You have a knack for taking ships that are death traps for other players and being absolutely lethal with them.  The problem with the CFS+ is that its built on a CA hull at a bpv that allows dreads.  It also lacks the power to charge a full volley at high speed, and is deficient in terms of phasers.  Granted, my only experience fighting against it is on GSA, but you are the only player there who can take it without getting pwned.

[Voidwar]

Thank you sincerely for the compliment

[Temy]

Even a Kirov or a KHK is easier to play than a CFS+!

[Roychipoqua_Mace]

@ Voidwar: You have a knack for taking ships that are death traps for other players and being absolutely lethal with them. 

I must keep that in mind for when I try out the S-BR2 that he suggested. 

[FPF-Tobin Dax]

While I really like some of the ships already mentioned, allow me to submit my favorite 3 that haven't yet.

F-CFS+    So many people think this thing is a dog.  I will pound a R-KHK flatter than hammered dung with it.
F-CFS+ has 8 photons from range, 4 drones, and can charge a rearward, OV photon at 31.  Game OVER.

R-K7RB   Very strong boat at 170 mid, excellent power and arcs and transporters due to klingon hull.  Only challenger is the ISC , and the match is a standoff, where the ISC wins the open space battle, but if the Rom puts his butt in the corner and reinforces, he can force the ISC to come in, and eventually, under those conditions, 2 F torps is worth more than a ppd.

Syndicate BR2 The STRONGEST ship in the game at 130 mid.  2 S torps, 2 drones and 4 phaser one, 127 bpv.  Holds its own castling, and always has the option of charging everything up, then doubling engines for the screaming tractor 2, speed 31 rundown, culminating in 2 S torps and a scatterpack.

CFS+ over a KHK? In single player or versus a newbie? No experienced Rom is going to let you into overload range. Better call for a small map for any chance.

[Voidwar]

CFS+ over a KHK? In single player or versus a newbie? No experienced Rom is going to let you into overload range. Better call for a small map for any chance.

Hop on GSA and I will show you.  I will beam your survivors on board my vessel.

If the Rom doesn't try to chase the Fed with plasma, then Rom gets bombarded by 8 photons.  KHK has a lot of power, but not enough to just take that indefinitely.  The CFS+ can force the Rom to chase, and when he chases, Fed's rear OV photon and 4 drones wins the game.  No experienced Rom is going to let me in OV range ?  Then he might as well shut off his plasma cuz plasma will never land from 9 away   How does KHK win with no plasma ?

[knightstorm]

Keep in mind most KHK pilots on GSA have no patience and take the ship so that they can run down and kill noobs.  A patient pilot would stay cloaked so you couldn't ping them from long distance.  If you try to flash it, it would come off of your overloads in much better shape than you would be against its plasma.

[Voidwar]

So this wiener can successfully hide from me   Should I be intimidated ? heheheh

I can pick on him all day long with oblique approach and 8 proxies at range 9.01 followed by phasers at 8.99.

Trust me, the Fed can force the Rom to chase and then force him to lose, this ain't my first trip across the Neutral Zone

[knightstorm]

So this wiener can successfully hide from me   Should I be intimidated ? heheheh

No, you'll either suicide just to end it, have the match become inconclusive when one of you drops, or you'll eventually make a mistake and die.

[Voidwar]

Put yer KHK where your mouth is then

A mistake ?  Me ? 

[FPF-Tobin Dax]

CFS+ over a KHK? In single player or versus a newbie? No experienced Rom is going to let you into overload range. Better call for a small map for any chance.

Hop on GSA and I will show you.  I will beam your survivors on board my vessel.

If the Rom doesn't try to chase the Fed with plasma, then Rom gets bombarded by 8 photons.  KHK has a lot of power, but not enough to just take that indefinitely.  The CFS+ can force the Rom to chase, and when he chases, Fed's rear OV photon and 4 drones wins the game.  No experienced Rom is going to let me in OV range ?  Then he might as well shut off his plasma cuz plasma will never land from 9 away   How does KHK win with no plasma ?

What's your GSA handle and when are you most likely to be on?

[knightstorm]

Put yer KHK where your mouth is then

A mistake ?  Me ? 

I did manage to beat your CFS+ once by castling in a gorn dread.  We were the last surviving combatants from either side, and ended up having to fight an extended duel.  A duel which reminded me why I hate plasma.  I spent the entire match wishing I had a few photons torpedoes to send up your rear, well that and wondering how you were being so effective in such a ^&*^ty ship.  The match went on until you made a slight miscalculation and I was able to nail you.  While the KHK lacks the survivability of the gorn dread, I think its cloak would be an equalizer as I was unable to use em due to the constant stream of drones you kept chucking at me.

[Voidwar]

What's your GSA handle 

Seriously ?  Its Voidwar, duh

and when are you most likely to be on?

often in evenings, American central time

[Voidwar]

Tobindax caught me at a corner and pushed me out, but by then I had first blood, and had delivered the rearward OV photon.

So I was tracced out, but Tobin said the Rom would realistically just disengage if taking internals and not getting close enuf to land plas.

GG TobinDax.

Changes things a bit  when an enemy reads your playbook before the game

[Age]

While I really like some of the ships already mentioned, allow me to submit my favorite 3 that haven't yet.

F-CFS+    So many people think this thing is a dog.  I will pound a R-KHK flatter than hammered dung with it.
F-CFS+ has 8 photons from range, 4 drones, and can charge a rearward, OV photon at 31.  Game OVER.

The CFS+ never gets used on the Dyna.

[FPF-Tobin Dax]

I hadn't intended to push anyone out with the tractor. Unfortunately momentum got you far enough beyond the line to disengage before my torps hit you. At any rate, without artificial borders, the CFS+ wins. With borders the Rom needs to take a bloody nose and trap the fed in the corner if possible.  Nicely done.

[Temy]

A CFS/+ is best used in combination with other ships (if there is more than one pilot in a team that actually uses a CFS/+.

[Roychipoqua_Mace]

A CFS/+ is best used in combination with other ships (if there is more than one pilot in a team that actually uses a CFS/+.

Yeah, I've been on the receiving end in a 2v2 where the Fed and a Gorn DN teamed up (heck, it was probably Voidwar!).

It would be interesting to see how the I-CCZ did against the CFS+. Better balance of direct fire and plasma than the KHK, but somehow I doubt the plasmas and lack of cloak would keep the CFS+ from coming to range 8 . . .

[Voidwar]

In my experience, the CCZ eats it up.  Having any direct fire heavies is enough.

[Roychipoqua_Mace]

In my experience, the CCZ eats it up.  Having any direct fire heavies is enough.

Fed note -- play games at 228 late no X. I forgot to think about the splash damage that the PPD would do also, so without those left two shields, the CFS+ would be really limited.

[stoneyface]

oooh i like this one. mine is easy

romulan d'deridex
the enterprise-e
and isc xcb 

as an alt ( as i know people like 762 would just b*tch up a storm at the i-xcb) would be the r-kvl!!!! (pre bpv nerf of course) at 170 it was the uber epic ship to catch those unsuspecting noobs at that bpv level. in fact an old XC joke when in GSA rooms when asked for bpv suggestions was to yell out "169late!!!" just so i couldn't take the kvl. i was a damn good kvl pilot. but then i was too heavily influenced by "balance of terror" and das boot, etc..

[Corbomite]

While I really like some of the ships already mentioned, allow me to submit my favorite 3 that haven't yet.

F-CFS+    So many people think this thing is a dog.  I will pound a R-KHK flatter than hammered dung with it.
F-CFS+ has 8 photons from range, 4 drones, and can charge a rearward, OV photon at 31.  Game OVER.

The CFS+ never gets used on the Dyna.

That's because it is never built. I believe it is restricted in the shiplist. The CFS+ rocks. I used to kill KCR's in that thing in SFC I back when you had to buy your wild weasles, scatter packs and suicide shuttles before the match. I always wished they had made a right hand firing version as well as a command variant with LS/RS arcs.

[Julin Eurthyr]

Okay:

I-BBVZ, Z-SSCSm, & F-CVL? (the one converted from the survey cruiser)

Fighters, fighters and more fighters, a handful of PFs to help the fighters, scout channels, adjustable drone loadout for multi-role missions (MIRVs, type IIIs for bombardment, etc.), there's enough here to take out darn near anything...

Oh, wait - this seems to be an exercise in "realistic" ships, not a dream-team-esque kill-them-all fleet...

I-CCZ on the flag, K-D7 and a Hydran HB/Fus CA (their naming is escaping me at the moment) - HB and PPD provide just enough ranged capacity to be a severe threat (nevermind that both ranged weapons are multi-shield and multi-volley for mizia work), plasma/fusion provides close-in deterrence, fighters for PD / "under the radar" strikes, and the Klink as a chaser/dueler/dancer/obliquer/distraction taking advantage of the multi-shield damage output (say CCZ/Hydran attacking from the #1 shield facing, Klink is angling to attack from the #2 or the #6...)  Was tempted to use a D5 on the klink, but I prefer the staying power of the true cruisers over the war variants...

[Age]

While I really like some of the ships already mentioned, allow me to submit my favorite 3 that haven't yet.

F-CFS+    So many people think this thing is a dog.  I will pound a R-KHK flatter than hammered dung with it.
F-CFS+ has 8 photons from range, 4 drones, and can charge a rearward, OV photon at 31.  Game OVER.

The CFS+ never gets used on the Dyna.

That's because it is never built. I believe it is restricted in the shiplist. The CFS+ rocks. I used to kill KCR's in that thing in SFC I back when you had to buy your wild weasles, scatter packs and suicide shuttles before the match. I always wished they had made a right hand firing version as well as a command variant with LS/RS arcs.

I use to edit those arcs in shipedit but not anymore and I know about buying shuttles in SFC1.

CFS+ vs ICCZ I would say CFS+ 16 Photons say over loads plus type 4 drones if you choose that is lot of cheese.