Topic: How Sick are you of....

[Fallen_Warrior]

.

[Starforce2]

WTF? Most of the recent wips/releases seem to have comments?

[wulf111]

as i stated in your Roosevelt thread FW i can see some of it happening but i have 200+ views and 12 posts 4 of them mine and no-one has posted after my last one back on the 8 of December i posted pretty much the same info on my other modeling forum and i have 2 pages of posts so far. is everyone caught up in Christmas right now or is this place dying out?

Try been someone with limited skills again and having to work at a slower pace. Then see how the lack of comments makes you want to carry on working.

this is kind of why i left things a while back

[Starforce2]

But how many downloads? To me, a download is a statement..because why would you download something if you thought it was crap? It's also the holidays..are people out of town? Too busy to play on the PC? Still shopping ect.

[Starforce2]

as i stated in your Roosevelt thread FW i can see some of it happening but i have 200+ views and 12 posts 4 of them mine and no-one has posted after my last one back on the 8 of December i posted pretty much the same info on my other modeling forum and i have 2 pages of posts so far. is everyone caught up in Christmas right now or is this place dying out?

Try been someone with limited skills again and having to work at a slower pace. Then see how the lack of comments makes you want to carry on working.

this is kind of why i left things a while back

Ahh, I can kinda see your point, however starblazers type stuff appeals to a certain fanbase, which is not the fanbase this forum was intended for (which is trek, not anamie) so you're outside your element on that. The small percentage of trek fans who also like anamie are going to post but probably it's not going to interest much  more. I've seen a couple eps on this starblazers toonami site before it was cancled, and it's never in the TV listings. I'd probably like it if I could watch it, but a game version against trek ships still doesn't interest me.  As for this place dieing out? Have you noticed how hard it is to type a quoted post with the side scroll bar for the text constantly jumping all over as you type? You can't see what you type because it's below the part of the text field the forum is showing you and the scrollbar drops to your fresh text for the breif second you type a letter, then defauls back to the middle. They got a few bugs to iron out of their recent update I'd say.

[Klingon Fanatic]

Holidays not withstanding, the forums cycle in periods of use and non-use.

I'm not sure that this forum will ever be back to the having strength in people posting since SFC2: EAW first came out. Keep in mind too that SFC:OP is pushing ten years old as a PC game and there are a huge number of other PC games/platforms and real life activities that take up people's time.

Fallen Warrior's post/commentary is not the first time issues like this have come up.

From my personal perspective and IIRC, there was a time when the model maker gods were pissed off at every body who posted any percieved "severe constructive criticism" on a model maker's latest WIP. Anybody else remember any of the original critiques of the TOS Connies or even the first TNG Galaxy or even the Sovereign class ships pre-SFC3? People back then would tell the model maker's that the color of the deflector was wrong on P81's Galaxy or the number of windows was wrong on somebody's TOS Connie? Talk about FLAME WARS! We lost model makers over that and people even got banned for their "opinions."

[pepperman]

I suspect the age of the games have a lot to do with it as well.  Many folks have just moved on to other things.  I don't think this isn't unique to SFC as I have seen similar things going on with BC, and Armada.

What we really need is a new modable Star Trek based game to infuse some life back into the system.  Personally, I like to see folks spend less time doing Federation stuff and shore up the other races.  Naturally, the Romulans come to mind. 

And then there is always the challenges of R/L.

[marstone]

now my WIPs are not models but hey I am working on things for here.  Do I care if I get comments, not really, but yeah, they do help when they do come in.  But I do it for myself and personal enjoyment.  The part that others will be able to use or benefit from it is a bonus.  The part that bothers me is the lack of responses to questions and such from the "leadership" the ones who are suppose to be helping keep the community moving forward.  Simple things like the 2009 state of the Dynaverse gong on how many months of waiting now (hmmm, one more week and it will be the 2010 state of the Dynaverse we are waiting on)

But it comes down to if you are not doing it for yourself, you will always be disappointed in others.

[atheorhaven]

I kind of look at it this way..

I worked with Nanner on Generations at War as a member of the team, did a lot of work.  Some textures, scaling, a few kitbashes.  I've worked on close to 400 models.  Have a policy of if some thing I worked on is ported to something else.. please send me a screenie.

I should be drowning in screenies.  Think in five years, I had KF send me some, and got a few here of ingame shots.  I gathered some from the BC forums (none were ever sent from there).  One, I think, was sent by a Vegastirke player once.  Oh, and I had something ported to Starshatter.  That's all I know about.  But I imagine that there's lots in Armada, lots in BC, maybe even some floating around in Legacy and Solar Empire.  Dunno... don't have screenies.  And I imagine that people claimed credit for my work as well.  But I think the bigger issue is not the posters, I think it's societal in a consumer driven society.

(gulp) more please (gulp) more please.  Probably not even that, more.. (gulp) (hunt) (gulp).

But I don't know if you can blame anyone, or expect anything.  I go by downloads these days as well.. and I occasionally hope to see screenies.  But I don't expect to see comments, and when I do.. I'm happy to see them.  I like to get constructive criticism because sometimes it points out obvious stuff I've missed.  (How many windows on the TARDIS?  Geez..)

I think the number of models we're still seeing is frankly astounding.. I love the fact that we're still seeing stuff for SFC, and I still enjoy doing the work.  It'd be nice to see more comments, but personally, I'm glad to see any..

[GotAFarmYet?]

hmmm....

Well if you want to hear it, the average response to threads compared to looks is well under 10% for the big guys in the community. Typically I get under 3% to works I have done and usually it is the same ppl posting hoping I will not drop the project. Mostly I do this for my own enjoyment, ask FoaS how a TOS connie I started is going.

Learned along time ago that I do this for me, I like comments that actually would be critical to help me make better textures or quality work but those types of posts are even fewer.

If you are doing this to look for comments good luck, I know you see it as trying to keep the community going. You are hoping to keep modlers and releases coming here because a active community keeps ppl here.

Well this is turning into a negive post so I thing it is best to stop here

[Starforce2]

I think in some cases people might be afraid so say something. Oftem times modders act as if they don't want to hear it or are afraid if they say anything other than "that's awsome" someone will be offended. Raven gets lots of replies because people know he's interactive, albeit reaaaaally slow But he doesn't go off if he comes up with something that just plain sucks and you tell him so. Then you have certain modders who have their own little homes and only seem to post here when they have something they want to show off..I guess we're not good enough the rest of the time?

I try to comment on things I see in here..infact it's the only reason I am here...I like seeing all the models and designs that get tossed around and it's fun when someone like Riker just suddenly show up and kick ass with stuff almost nobody does like shuttles or the deneva or a ferengi (even if it is ravens design atleast someone finaly built it) (on that note you may want to pop over to BC..we have our first advanced era cardie...) But sometimes there are things I am just not interested in...another connie, FW's macross, heck there's some impressive ships FOAS has done recently that I find completely uninteresting, ect..thus, I ignore it. There's even one modder at BCC that takes so bloody long to finish a ship he makes raven look quick and I basicly don't even bother to click his threads any more because by the time it comes out I'll have long forgotten the wip. And lets not forget the ammount of buggered sites around here. Filefront has been acting up for ages and they broke the user submit files right before christmas (so much for the christmas release spree). Battleclinic seems to get increasingly more dificult to use with each update and now this forum has a spaz if you type more than can fit in the text field because the scroll has a spaz. Make it dificult for people to post and they wont. Simple as that.

Personaly I would look at the views and downloads...you know their aint 285 unique users logging in this part of the forums in 3 days any more..so alot of those are repeates checking out your progress, and if people are downloading your product then I think you should STFU and keep up the good work. Maybe the fact that nobody is commenting means they got nothing to complain about and you defently don't want to be looking that horse in the mouth. As someone who often complains..if I can't find 6 things wrong with your wip in 30 seconds don't go begging me for comment

[marstone]

well, I am one who put the get back to work votes in.  Mainly because of the way I look at it.  If you enjoy what you are doing, then replies don't matter but help.  If you don't enjoy what you are doing, why are you doing it.

Now on the WIP's I normally don't post a reply because I like TOS ships and most modelers are not making them (or they call them TOS and they are still more TMP or TNG style to me).  So I check the first post of a WIP and probably never look back at it again.

Other main reason is for the most part my thoughts on something like what engine would look better isn't any good for you.  It is usually, damn, both look good.  i don't have that eye.  I see another modeler point out things I never even see in a model even after reading their post.  So I leave it to someone with a better eye.

But I understand the frustration, when I do have a question about something and post a "help" me post.  I usually don't get anything back or it leads to a small conversation but not to an answer.  Mainly it is because of the lack programmers here.  So it is the same with you only so many modelers who have the eye to see what you are doing.  So mainly it isn't really apathy but the feeling that most of us are under qualified to answer questions on design and such.

My own case, not sure how many times I see a modeler put up a wip that is called TOS, is it worth while to argue that it isn't really TOS but a so TMP or later era ship that has been so called TOSafied.  So I leave it to those who will use the models to do the comments.

Now I am/have downloaded and will use FoaS's Kzinti ships, and if you look in that thread, I commented and gave cudos on those.  Personally not so wild about the ISC ships being done, and my comments stopped with them.  They are good ships, but not my taste.  It isn't worth trying to have him change his vision to match mine.   I pointed out the one big things I didn't like, he gave a reason for it, all done with my critic of it.

[Tulwar]

Straight up, if I'm not interested in something, or even hate the thing from its basic concept, I'm not going to comment.  People work on what their muse leads them to.  If it isn't up my alley, then I can't give the kudos or constructive criticism.  Who needs some old curmudgeon throwing cold water on whatever they're working on?

[Kreeargh]

THis is my opinion i dont want any complaits about it please.
 "We do it for ourselfs " If that is the case then why show off and release the work you do? IF you do it for your self then you should be getting payed for your efforts , not post them to the public for general comments. I create for OTHERS to enjoy or i dont bother creating it.  If i was getting payed for my efforts i dont think i would bother shareing it to the public even if the contract allowed me to.
Posting WIPS is one way the artist is asking for comments on how others think the work looks and what ideas those come up with the artists thinks about not blows it off or they would not post wips.  I myself post wips rarely because of that fact most dont care they only want something to put in their game , so crap i provide.

[Starforce2]

Posting WIPS is one way the artist is asking for comments on how others think the work looks and what ideas those come up with the artists thinks about not blows it off or they would not post wips.  I myself post wips rarely because of that fact most dont care they only want something to put in their game , so crap i provide.

Well, if said crap is trek related I'll comment if it means upgrading to better crap

[Bonk]

Be aware: spiders crawl each and every thread but are unable to comment. Google, Baiidu, Cuil, Bing... etc may even spider the same thread multiple times.

If you post in a public forum unregistered users can view and are unable to comment.

Would modellers like a members only forum so spiders and unregistered members cannot see the threads you put there?

There is a serious problem within this section of the forum.

Be careful how you say that, I was spooked that perhaps there was a serious technical problem.

Finally, remember that when you post something on the internet in a public forum it is in the wild and you no longer control it. If you do not want people to see something, do not post it. This holds for the internet as a whole.

more to come... on this strange subject...

[Bonk]

OK, here's the more... I really do want any of you to be upset and take what I am saying wrong. I relate well to this community and the artistic membership of Dynaverse.net is an inspiration to me and a source of strength in our community.

That said, I find it odd that you would be this upset at the lack of comments on wips (etc.) that people post. You have to remember that we are a pretty small community and a rather old one. Everybody's lives have grown more complicated in the past ten years, but those that continue to return to Dynaverse.net do so because of those long term ties and friendships. We get some new members now and then but overall the community is smaller and less active than it used to be. That is no reason not to be optimistic about our future however.

If I might suggest that if you are looking for feedback on a particular work then be more assertive about asking for input. Assertive is not necessarily the best word, but one does not develop a following without some pr effort. Get what I'm saying?

So, there are a number of ways I might be able to help. Perhaps a members only feedback forum might be a good idea, so that you can now that views on your feedback/brainstorming/brainpicking threads are only from registered members? There might be other ways we can foster a creative construct here at Dynaverse.net that matches the evolving sophistication of online communication and collaboration today. (e.g. check my use of Google docs in this thread, that sort of thing, or other collaborative software hosted or facilitated by Dynaverse.net...)

I'm glad you made this poll, as odd as it struck me, becasue it has led my thoughts in this direction. Lets brainstorm on it.

What do you think? Give some ideas and input!  

[Bonk]

I dunno, if we need a new dedicated Members only forum... Maybe just editing this one. As a lot of good threads are already in place. I completely forgot about the spider/unregistered views though. That would make a big impact on numbers of views. Thank you Bonk.... I'm not nearly as pissy as I was

Glad I could help out. But I think you've raised a good point that we need to foster the creativity in our small community the best we can. So if there is anything I can do to help out, if there's some web app I could install or develop. We're here to work and play together, we just have to remember to have fun while we do it! 

[Bonk]

Great stuff man! that is exactly what I am taking about. (I like the colour wheel idea).

I'll let you know that the main modeling forum will remain public because it was when Taldren ran it. (our mandate). Thus the suggestion of a forum dedicated to registered user feedback, in a controlled way. But that has it's drawbacks and there may be better ideas. So definitely lets take this opportunity to discuss these issues.

Here's another example of use of Google Docs, I just found they have these form things... perfect for soliciting feedback:



I have a lot of irons in the fire, but I'll take the best and easiest to implement of what we come up with here to carry out.

[Bonk]

Many times I've seen people try to start discussions over various subjects/projects.... Something to provoke our brains to work in a way we share ideas... But they never last. Not sure of the reason.

I have observed the same and am as guilty of it as anyone else (if not more so). The Turn Based Campaign right now is a case of this, I think it is just stalled. (my screwy life combined with xmas...)

But I will commit to following through on one or two of the best and simplest ideas presented in this discussion. I think we all have a tendency to bite off more than we can chew at times. So let's try many small improvements over time instead of huge daunting projects?

[Starforce2]

Be aware: spiders crawl each and every thread but are unable to comment. Google, Baiidu, Cuil, Bing... etc may even spider the same thread multiple times.

If you post in a public forum unregistered users can view and are unable to comment.

Would modellers like a members only forum so spiders and unregistered members cannot see the threads you put there?

There is a serious problem within this section of the forum.

Be careful how you say that, I was spooked that perhaps there was a serious technical problem.

Finally, remember that when you post something on the internet in a public forum it is in the wild and you no longer control it. If you do not want people to see something, do not post it. This holds for the internet as a whole.

more to come... on this strange subject...

can you atleast do something about the scrollbar on the text field when you are making a post? It flops back and forth from where you type when you press a litter andthe middle of whatever ammout of text is there.                                                                                                                                     

[marstone]

can you atleast do something about the scrollbar on the text field when you are making a post? It flops back and forth from where you type when you press a litter andthe middle of whatever ammout of text is there.                                                                                                                                   

Yeah, that is really annoying.  I thought it was just the netbook acting up with IE8 but I guess it is happening to others.

[Bonk]

Ah, yes, I did notice that issue in IE, most annoying. I think an IE7 compatibility tag might help... I'll give that a try.

Bother... testing it in IE8 now it does not do it anymore, but I did not change anything! 


edit... ah it is still doing it. Takes a long post to show it. I'll try the compaitibilty tag.


I think I've fixed it... does it still do the jumpy thing for you guys? (refresh a post page)

[FoaS_XC]

I dunno, if we need a new dedicated Members only forum... Maybe just editing this one. As a lot of good threads are already in place. I completely forgot about the spider/unregistered views though. That would make a big impact on numbers of views. Thank you Bonk.... I'm not nearly as pissy as I was

Glad I could help out. But I think you've raised a good point that we need to foster the creativity in our small community the best we can. So if there is anything I can do to help out, if there's some web app I could install or develop. We're here to work and play together, we just have to remember to have fun while we do it! 

BONK, my friend, my pal. I have a couple of ideas with something. I would love to think it through and talk to you and the other mods about it after the holidays.

As far as locking the forum to be members only? I say don't. A stray person who comes in and sees an awesome drawing by atolm or a cool model by WZ might register to see more. The spiders and all that are just something that we can deal with, now that it's factored into our thinking (truth be told I hadn't thought of it until you said something, Bonk). I would rather ignore the page-views than make this forum closed-door.

I, personally, will strive to comment on more threads, if it will help out the community - least I could do.

[FoaS_XC]

Oh bonk, one other thing.
Sci-Fi meshes has this thing where if an image is posted that is larger than the width of the post, it will automatically shrink the image with a little bar that says "This image has been scaled down, click this bar to show at full size" might be a good idea to implement something like that so that we don't have the horizontal scrollbar in posts with large images.

[intermech]

I don't post because I don't come to the forum that much any more
And when I do, you guys have all run so far ahead with your skill, I am a little bit embarrassed |{

[FoaS_XC]

Okay, IM, I have got to disagree. I love your stuff and you are very talented. I often wonder at your texturing techniques, so don't gimme that

[Starforce2]

I don't post because I don't come to the forum that much any more
And when I do, you guys have all run so far ahead with your skill, I am a little bit embarrassed |{

I think you can do more with a 600 poly mesh than anyone here. While they're not always my cup of tea, they make someone happy. Keep it up.

[Rod ONeal]

"It is what it is" You can't force comments from people. They won't be sincere and/or what you are looking for. Also, "Be careful what you wish for, you just may get it", comes to mind.

All I can say is if you like the response you get at other sites, by all means post you're work there and be happy. Just pop the finished model up here and say come and get it. You can then watch the countdown timer, my personal yardstick for the communal success of a model.

[Wicked Zombie]

I would say for most it isn't a question of being lazy or ungrateful, but simply a factor of not knowing what to say or not having time. I myself don't post much because I don't have anything viable to offer beyond the variations of "good job" - which I'm sure are not unappreciated but it tends to strike me as forced and dishonest when I come up with the same old reply every time. If what I post doesn't sound genuine to me and is only there "just because", then I don't want to insult a fellow modeler's work by putting in filler comments. But again, that's my viewpoint.

Someone earlier in this thread made a remark about how there are modelers who only have their own site and "little homes" they live in and apparently don't consider the rest of "us" worth the trouble. I have to take exception to such a remark, especially looking at how the bulk of modders in any community seldom chime in graciously at every piece of work posted by their peers. 99% of the posts in this very forum are about showing off what someone has made, so I would say such remarks are poorly considered.

Many of the regular posters here are modelers and the bulk of replies to new ship releases are by fellow modelers. For me, I take that in stride as criticisms from another hold more weight when they are familiar with the process. Not to say non-modder comments and suggestions aren't acceptable, but it is a natural human tendency to let a peer's words take precedence over anyone else.

Some of the reasons stated earlier, such as the age of the SFC and the decline in popularity of these sorts of games in general are valid. However, I have to point out that we haven't helped this situation much either. Not to go off on an "old man, had to walk 10 miles in the snow to school" speech, but I remember the ego-fests and flame wars and flinging of...stuff...across boundary lines so many years ago. Mindlessly competing with each other, spreading lies, arguing and debating and thieving and worrying - all for no other reason than our own delusions of grandeur. Factor in the times our work was blatantly ripped off or stolen or our sites subverted by community leeches and unproductive moochers, and you have plenty of fuel for forum troubles.

Hell, there have been times when other posters went off on each other for daring to critique "the masterpieces"...running off fresh faces to the forum and giving everyone - including the modders - a bad reputation. Why would anyone want to post any comment to a thread after seeing modelers treat each other in such ways, let alone the regular players? Thankfully such attitudes have leveled off and I'm glad to see that some of the more self-centered individuals are no longer among us. Unfortunately, that perception of us being egotistical, short tempered prima-donas is still with us to the point where if we even try to defend ourselves from legitimate wrongs, we get accused of whining or "not supporting the community".

I would bet that many of us, after all these sorts of mixed messages and troublesome times, would retreat back to the barest minimum of community interaction and mind our own frakkin' business, as it were. Not that I wish to imply any personal experiences in that statement or anything...

I personally stopped getting upset over the lack of replies a long time ago; it certainly has no bearing on how good or bad the work is. I learned to quit bothering with prestige and glory and to just do things my own way on my own terms, so if anyone is here for attention then I suggest you stop right now. I'm here for the hobby and the distraction and to give back to the community in my own way. SFC is the only community worth a damn as far as I'm concerned and if it weren't for what I've learned here, doing whatever it is I do, then I probably wouldn't be where I am now. How many people can say they got a job with just a hobby website for a resume?

Anyway, to steer things back to the topic - I doubt we can beg or coax people to start posting more, as we've all been trying that since before Dnet even existed. It didn't work then, and it certainly won't work now. The best thing any of us can do is to simply make what we want, why we want, when we want and let things go on naturally. And if, by some chance, we do get more than a few token replies, well that can't possibly be a bad thing now can it?

[DeathKricket]

As the sign says and my recent soap box rants have shown. There is a serious problem within this section of the forum. And I for one am sick and tired of it. As are other modellers, who unless produce a constant flow of releases do not get a single comment about their creations.

So let's get this cleaned up before we start loosing modellers again.

Please feel free to share your views as a "no comment" member. As I am curious why you take our skills and work for granted. Whilst you happily sit there and moan about the lack of releases?

So from what i make of this, your tired of every single person who comes across this fourm not leaving you a message telling you how special you are, am i close, maybe not, if you pay attention to the amount of people who are logged on or viewing boards, you will notice there are normally 2 to 4 members logged on at a time and around 5 to 10 guest, so what the end product is someone google's sfc 2 models and comes across this  forum and reads threw it, see's your post has no clue who you are nor do they care to know who you are(there here to see if there are any sfc models because that's what they googled) and when there done they move to the next list on google, hence the 177 views and 2 replies, because they do not want to register because they don't care to go though that much trouble for a game that's 10 years old to praise someone. now with that being said i am not meaning to bash your glory or honor but the members who are here and post all the time will comment on your work which if you put forth a question i would gladly say that's awesome or it looks like crap, as I'm sure would any one else here, so there is nothing wrong with this forum, its just there's a lot of guest views, and if moders want a constant ego pump to keep making models, then there is something wrong with it here.you cant expect everyone to post what you think they should, if you want a opinion then just ask and don't be mad there are 177 views and 3 replies because the 3 are the only ones who count as they are the only ones who care enough to take the time out of their real life to register and read up daily.

[KBF_Gow]

I would say for most it isn't a question of being lazy or ungrateful, but simply a factor of not knowing what to say or not having time. I myself don't post much because I don't have anything viable to offer beyond the variations of "good job" - which I'm sure are not unappreciated but it tends to strike me as forced and dishonest when I come up with the same old reply every time. If what I post doesn't sound genuine to me and is only there "just because", then I don't want to insult a fellow modeler's work by putting in filler comments. But again, that's my viewpoint.

Someone earlier in this thread made a remark about how there are modelers who only have their own site and "little homes" they live in and apparently don't consider the rest of "us" worth the trouble. I have to take exception to such a remark, especially looking at how the bulk of modders in any community seldom chime in graciously at every piece of work posted by their peers. 99% of the posts in this very forum are about showing off what someone has made, so I would say such remarks are poorly considered.

Many of the regular posters here are modelers and the bulk of replies to new ship releases are by fellow modelers. For me, I take that in stride as criticisms from another hold more weight when they are familiar with the process. Not to say non-modder comments and suggestions aren't acceptable, but it is a natural human tendency to let a peer's words take precedence over anyone else.

Some of the reasons stated earlier, such as the age of the SFC and the decline in popularity of these sorts of games in general are valid. However, I have to point out that we haven't helped this situation much either. Not to go off on an "old man, had to walk 10 miles in the snow to school" speech, but I remember the ego-fests and flame wars and flinging of...stuff...across boundary lines so many years ago. Mindlessly competing with each other, spreading lies, arguing and debating and thieving and worrying - all for no other reason than our own delusions of grandeur. Factor in the times our work was blatantly ripped off or stolen or our sites subverted by community leeches and unproductive moochers, and you have plenty of fuel for forum troubles.

Hell, there have been times when other posters went off on each other for daring to critique "the masterpieces"...running off fresh faces to the forum and giving everyone - including the modders - a bad reputation. Why would anyone want to post any comment to a thread after seeing modelers treat each other in such ways, let alone the regular players? Thankfully such attitudes have leveled off and I'm glad to see that some of the more self-centered individuals are no longer among us. Unfortunately, that perception of us being egotistical, short tempered prima-donas is still with us to the point where if we even try to defend ourselves from legitimate wrongs, we get accused of whining or "not supporting the community".

I would bet that many of us, after all these sorts of mixed messages and troublesome times, would retreat back to the barest minimum of community interaction and mind our own frakkin' business, as it were. Not that I wish to imply any personal experiences in that statement or anything...

I personally stopped getting upset over the lack of replies a long time ago; it certainly has no bearing on how good or bad the work is. I learned to quit bothering with prestige and glory and to just do things my own way on my own terms, so if anyone is here for attention then I suggest you stop right now. I'm here for the hobby and the distraction and to give back to the community in my own way. SFC is the only community worth a damn as far as I'm concerned and if it weren't for what I've learned here, doing whatever it is I do, then I probably wouldn't be where I am now. How many people can say they got a job with just a hobby website for a resume?

Anyway, to steer things back to the topic - I doubt we can beg or coax people to start posting more, as we've all been trying that since before Dnet even existed. It didn't work then, and it certainly won't work now. The best thing any of us can do is to simply make what we want, why we want, when we want and let things go on naturally. And if, by some chance, we do get more than a few token replies, well that can't possibly be a bad thing now can it?

I remember those bad days, some of the "star modelers" involved, and agree pretty much with what you have said.

Interesting for me to see, 6 years later, who is still modeling, and who isn't.

[FoaS_XC]

And who has really started since

[FoaS_XC]

I'm not really sure to whom you are responding, FW

This is in the Admin's hands as to how we as a modelling community can help make some improvements for all of us on a whole.

I disagree. The admin true job is to just make sure flame wars don't crop up and to keep things in in the right place. The responsibility of the tone of a community lies solely on those in the community. Anything that a mod or admin does on top of that is just icing on the cake (let us also remember that the admins are not modellers). I really think that wicked zombie's post is spot on and I agree whole-heartedly with him, even if I am more "active" than he is (not in a creation sense but in a conversational/feedback sense).

I've listened to both sides as far as the "giving to the community" argument. I've heard people who are tired of being railed against when a creator does something about his disapproval at how his creations are being treated. I've also heard arguments from people who would like to see certain works be done for the benefit of some. As far as my opinion of it, I would just point you towards what Wicked Zombie has said. I grow weary of people being wrongfully accused of not contributing. If a person doesn't do a thing the precise way that people wish, well, that's tough - I will always listen to my own gut before listening to any of you (and for some my gut does say "listen to this person").

Now, directly regarding this whole "no feedback" falderal. I would like you, FW, to go through my thread, and see how often you see a string of my own posts in a row, as opposed to those intermingled with replies. It happens quite often. Nature of the beast. I would also like to mention that I have over 50-some-odd ships up for download with well over 4 or 5 times that as WIPs and in all that I get a handful of comments per hundreds of downloads. This is your first ship. I don't think that a data-set numbering 1 is a fair way to measure the interest of a community. I would say that the winter-slowdown that occurs annually combined with the fact that we really are a small-knit community who "knows" each other throws your entire premise out the window, even if you discount using thread-views as a yardstick due to spiders and webbots.

My ultimate argument is this: Don't get so bent out of shape if people don't reply. I curmudgeon about it as WZ, tus, or atolm can attest to, but I don't take real umbrage. Just keep learning and chugging away. Do it for the satisfaction of seeing your ship in game, not for watching your downloads vs. comment ratio (though watching the downloads ticker is fun - if something of mine gets downloaded 200 times I take it as a huge compliment, even if I don't get a single reply).

[KBF_Gow]

One thing FoaS just mentioned rings truer than anything. 

I did my old ships for people to use, and there is no better compliment than seeing the few survivors with the download numbers they have, and that isn't counting dowloads from the original sites.

Nobody raved about them when I did them.  I didn't make em to be raved about, I made em to be used.  And, they have been.

And, as with most things, reward is intrinsic.  It has to be.  I showed horses for a living, and one fine day asked one ol Texas judge why he wasn't placing the horse I was showing, as I had been on a pretty good streak.

He said, "I just don't like your horse.  But, it's only my opinion, and it only matters today"

Thats the thing with opinions.  Be happy setting your own standards and goals.  Reach for what you know you can do, and let public reaction just be the frosting on that cake.

And, that is my christmas sermonette for the year, and I resume my regular cranky old gow programming.

[GotAFarmYet?]

You also have to remember that some times some one will post and then come back to see what others have also posted. This in itself might lead to another post but usually doesn't as once you have stated your opinion on something it usually doesn't require more posts.