Topic: Are Lod's still usefull with tech we have now?

[Kreeargh]

I should have never posted this or in any other topic since  my quit thread  Flames, ppl quiting their dreams ect.  from now on.

While it is not a good things that people let things boil over in a discussion.  It doesn't really have anything to do with the start of the post.  We should be able to disagree and talk about that.  It is part of being an adult.  Disagree with someone, talk about it (sometimes alittle forcefully) and then either agree or agree to disagree on it.

Well all i have to say 2/3 of the posts in this topic has nothing to do with the orignal topic. In my opinion anyway. LODs for sfc1 and 2 /op . Please read the topic and try to understand my bad spelling and gramor < .  GotAFarmYet got it right off the start . But playing with lods in m6sfced tool i wonderd what was possable after that.


Fallen Warrior dont quit ! give it time , Keep your dreams alive!   

[GotAFarmYet?]

I should have never posted this or in any other topic since  my quit thread  Flames, ppl quiting their dreams ect.  from now on.

You are wrong if you think you are at fault here Kreeargh.
You orginal post had nothing to do with the results that are going on in this thread, you got what you were asking for a answer to the LOD question. All the other off topic stuff could have easily happened in another thread that anyone could have started, and has happened in other threads that people have started. Post topics if you have questions, and in other member topics you can contribute to others their questions. This is what keeps a community going when you can't contribute directly with a model or something. So don't you dare think this is because you started this thread, if you had stopped reading after the first post or ppl stayed on topic this would have happened sooner or later anyways. Fallen is not giving up on his dream, he actually stated that he currently doesn't have the skill set to finish what is left. Which is why I will post to that alittle farther down.

any chance of a ignore post from this memeber option for Dizzy?

Speaking of you, have you been working on mapping at all yet? I know FoaS has, or at least had, a set of maps that are all colored squares. This would actually help alot to scalling between multiple textures. You already can map, just need to get them to scale against one another. I can give you a set of default textures to use, think I have considering the files I sent. Still willing to work in a open topic with you for questions and answers, or E-mail or whatever, even FoaS would probably like to contribute to that.

Fallen do you have a thread out yet of this is what I need help on in the forums? if so bump it up or start one and have FoaS sticky it.

[marstone]

I should have never posted this or in any other topic since  my quit thread  Flames, ppl quiting their dreams ect.  from now on.

While it is not a good things that people let things boil over in a discussion.  It doesn't really have anything to do with the start of the post.  We should be able to disagree and talk about that.  It is part of being an adult.  Disagree with someone, talk about it (sometimes alittle forcefully) and then either agree or agree to disagree on it.

Well all i have to say 2/3 of the posts in this topic has nothing to do with the orignal topic. In my opinion anyway. LODs for sfc1 and 2 /op . Please read the topic and try to understand my bad spelling and gramor < .  GotAFarmYet got it right off the start . But playing with lods in m6sfced tool i wonderd what was possable after that.


Fallen Warrior dont quit ! give it time , Keep your dreams alive!

Well, actually most of the posts does have something to do with the original topic.  The topic was is LoD still relevant.  The other posts was about LoD in general, a simple segway.  Now my posts tried to hijack it away to a topic of what people would want, in alittle attempt to defuse the debate that people where getting alittle to serious in.

But as Gafy posted, it has nothing to do with your posts, or this thread in general.  It is an undercurrent of the board that will wash up from time to time.  The balance of artistic need to the need of the game.

It goes hand in hand that some artists don't want to hear a negative on their work.  I used to give my "actual" opinion on ships people did.  I would say if I liked them or not, and get flamed by the artist over all the work they put in, or how good they think the model is.  Now I will sometimes comment on the technical part of the look, say how good the mesh is (even tho the image is ugly as hell, to me), so that the artist gets positive feedback instead of a critique of what an end user (me) would actually download and use in my game.  But mainly I just don't comment at all, unless I really like the model.  But even then I don't say why or what I like, because it seems many of the artists don't want to know.  But I respect the work you guys do, wish I had half the talent for art as even the worst of the modelers out there.

ramble, ramble, so I am just going to try and do my part to make the environment (and in game one) better for those who still play and those who will come back, or be a new player as time goes on.

[Strat]

Here here! To admit, I have never made a model, but I have sure downloaded a few for dyna's and stuff.

When I view these models thread I have a habit of seeing the art not as the 'look' of the final product, but the 'art' is that talent gone into creating this work. How many decision's go into the design, the technical hurdles overcome, that hours, the thought and the love? This is no minor feat. These days everyone and his brother can be an artist. Sure, they are not all Picasso's or Bach's by the world's view, but that has no bearing on the beauty of the talent.. these artists still have an amazing ability I sure don't have!

Point being: Don't give up. I don't say I understand all the issues mentioned in this thread, except that none of them appear to be more major than some clear communication and a little working together could fix right up. There are plans in work (with significant progress made) for a revamped EAW. But it is like these modeling projects and this thread. Both are affected by the 'positivity' of the community. If we can just keep building things up, these finished 'arts' can be released. If not, well, then both fields would suffer right over each other. I would feel sad if that happened really.. its like wasting good talent and hard work.

[Rod ONeal]

do the textue LODs run independent of the mesh LODds?

Nothing stops you from having all 3 LODs be the same mesh x3 with different textures attached to each one. I still disagree though that it's textures more than polies that influence FPS. Sure, if you exceed your graphics processor's frame buffer, FPS will crash. Up to that point though, it shouldn't matter much, if at all.

There's a lot of calculations that go into rendering the model. They all add up. The secret is keeping them to a minimum without effecting image quality. At least if you are making a model for realtime rendering, like a game model. A modeler not keeping an eye on making the model playable, is not creating a game model. You can't say, "I made this model for SFC but it doesn't matter if it's playable or not because it's all about me and my art". Then you are not creating models for SFC.

LODs will always be useful with SFC II. They will always allow you to use higher detail on the main models and keep FPS up, compared to not using LODs. It's more work, that many people won't be willing to do, and some people just don't know how to use them and won't learn. That's all fine though. People are always free to not use the models.

[marstone]

Rod, I like your answer and outlook on this.

Now I did make a suggestion, that D.net might split it's area for models so that you can have a compliant section and use at your own risk section to host them.  That way modelers can make what they want, and users will have a quick way to tell what will work well in multi-player and which ones might work, but could cause problems for various reasons.  Thus those who have experience in adding models can use their knowledge to choose, and newbs (and people like me) can choose mainly from the models that are game friendly.

[Rod ONeal]

Some people are so sensitive about it that they won't even give the poly count when they make a model. Some users actually get offensive if a model is too hires for them. If you like hires models, but your PC can't run them, buy a better PC. There are some monster processors and graphic cards out there.

[GotAFarmYet?]

Some people are so sensitive about it that they won't even give the poly count when they make a model. Some users actually get offensive if a model is too hires for them. If you like hires models, but your PC can't run them, buy a better PC. There are some monster processors and graphic cards out there.

Yeah I know,
I own a PC that way, it also kind of makes what I do in higher details work fine for me, as i tend to play single player, compared to others who get the models

[marstone]

while I would agree, that if you want great detail, but your computer sucks buy a new one.  I also have to look at it this way, my computer sucks, I have no money, can't get one of those great computers for a hundred bucks.

[Panzergranate]

Not only that there is only about 5-6 people still sporadically releasing for SFC in general and probably only about 20-40 people downloading for it now-a-days. So it seems like it's besides the point to continue.

Not quite true... here in Europe and the UK we didn't have SFC 2EW or OP but SFC 1 was distributed in large volumes.

Also, by making multiple copies of the original game disc, using NERO, SFC 1 has and is still propogated amongst fans of Star Trek starship type gaming who have heard of SFC through the gaming grape vine but missed out on buying it when it was origianally available.

Since the original SFC became abandonware, folks have been passing around copies.

I recently gave a copy to a friend of my son's who was a big Legacy fan. He now understands why I hold Legacy in such contenpt as he now regards SFC as ,"Amazing and brilliant".

There is still a desire for SFC models here in Europe and the UK.  What is completely invisible is the fact that foks download SFC2 and SFC 3 models and convert them to run on SFC 1. I recently converted an SFC 3 Reman Scimitar to run in SFC 1. It took me 10 minutes and it has the same size and appearance of the original.

So to say that only 20 to 40 people download models for SFC 1 is not taking into account the downloading and conversion aspect.

PS If anyone wants their SFC 2 or SFC 3 model converted to SFC 1 but can't be arsed to do so, just ask and I'll see what I can do. I also put in the hard points on those models where folks we'ren't able too or couldn't be bothered too.