Topic: Tactical question for the klinks.

[FPF-DieHard]

In our test battles for the turn-based F&E campaign we had the below, it got interrupted prematurely when Hexx’s FD7K let a squad of F14s get within range 4 and his ship got steam-rollered shortly there after (he’ll tell the story differently, in his alternate reality it’s my fault).   I’m curious what “real” Klinks would have picked and how they would have fought the battle.

All ships have the appropriate Refits for 2272 and D2 loadouts.  All drones are medium speed.

Klingon Forces available:

C8 (or C5), FD7, D7 (x3), D5L, D5 (x3), D5D, MD5 (x2), D6D

You need to pick 3 ships to fight:

F-CVA (12 F14s, 12 A10s -  SGO fighter list), F-DE, F-DE


What 3 ships would you pick for this battle and what tactics would you use?  Assume good pilots will be in all the ships in the fight. 

We had C5K (me flying), K-FD7K (Hexx), and a D5D (Kroma).   it didn't go very well, we downed 2 of the CVA's shields and did some minor damage from some phaser/T-bomb rakes when the photon tubes were empty.  Once we lost the FD7 and saw the situation as un-winnable and taco'd out of there.

[Dizzy]

Well the D5D was a mistake. You cant land speed 24 drones on anything sporting that many PhG's.

I'd go with speed, shields, and dizzies. (long range)

[Age]

What is the SGO fighter list?

[FPF-DieHard]

What is the SGO fighter list?

Slave Girls Orion -  the list the Dizzy and I have been using on servers since 2004.   based on SFB fighters, not the Taldren ones.

F14 =  JayIII
A10 = Vulture II

[kbf-jd]

At first I though, what Fed made this matchup up...   Then i saw it was you DH...

Only hope is to keep making midrange passes out of P-G range and get all your hits on the same shield.  shoot at fighters ONLY when you can kill the whole group.   3x D5(maybe a D5L & 2 D5).  or 3x D7 or a FD7 & 2x D7...

Everyone has to focus fire and kill a target at a time and make ZERO mistakes...

Keep the hulls the same so the phaser/dizzy arcs are the same on all ships and fly it like you have only 1 ship...

It's a retarded matchup no matter how you slice it.  The BPV if a loaded carrier group should be out there...

To win this match will take hours, unless the fed is retarded...

[marstone]

I think the D5 squadron would be the best (D5L, 2D5).  Saber dance away.  You have the speed and the best firing arcs on the heavies.  If the fighters come out, you have ADD's and good phasers to clean them up.  If the fighters stay back to defend, dizzy down shields and stay at range.

[kbf-jd]

I think the D5 squadron would be the best (D5L, 2D5).  Saber dance away.  You have the speed and the best firing arcs on the heavies.  If the fighters come out, you have ADD's and good phasers to clean them up.  If the fighters stay back to defend, dizzy down shields and stay at range.

yea, but you may also need internal hits of the D7 class so you are harder to kill...  But the D5 is likely better...

if the fighters come out, drop an admin shuttle  and tractor the buggers....   Kill them with T-bombs if the arc is clear... 

[FPF-DieHard]

I know the C8K is a bit of a dog, but you'd leave it out of the battle?   If anything it can take a lot of damage and have a bunch of drones and T-Bombs.  3 D5s is just gonna get steam-rollered.

[marstone]

I know the C8K is a bit of a dog, but you'd leave it out of the battle?   If anything it can take a lot of damage and have a bunch of drones and T-Bombs.  3 D5s is just gonna get steam-rollered.

True a C8K and a pair of D5's or even the D7's would work.  But the speed and arcs of the D5's I think give them an edge.  if you toe to toe the carrier you lose with the D5s but pick away you can probably take them.  Also trust in bad AI for the fighters.  Always seems my fighters head for the border after alittle combat. 

If you have good comms you can even split the D5s up and make the Feds try and chase down one while two can come in behind.

[FPF-DieHard]

If you have good comms you can even split the D5s up and make the Feds try and chase down one while two can come in behind.

Come in behind and do what?

[Dizzy]

This would likely come down to taking out the front shield of the CVA as the D5's make S turns and alpha strikes on it's front shield... The Feds would have to pick a target, stay with it and pop its back shields out. Then the klinks cant S turn on them and u can over run em.

Key is keeping ftrs alive or taking them out. Then it becomes a different game.

[marstone]

This would likely come down to taking out the front shield of the CVA as the D5's make S turns and alpha strikes on it's front shield... The Feds would have to pick a target, stay with it and pop its back shields out. Then the klinks cant S turn on them and u can over run em.

Key is keeping ftrs alive or taking them out. Then it becomes a different game.

That is it.  I would try and snipe fighter wings with volleys from all D5's on one fighter group so it is killed before it gets back to the carrier.  Trying to cripple a DE might be alright if they stay between you and the carrier.  That will slow it down so it can not keep up if the carrier tries to push an attack.  (slow the escorts the carrier has to slow to match, thus S turning becomes more effective)

[FPF-DieHard]

This would likely come down to taking out the front shield of the CVA as the D5's make S turns and alpha strikes on it's front shield... The Feds would have to pick a target, stay with it and pop its back shields out. Then the klinks cant S turn on them and u can over run em.

Key is keeping ftrs alive or taking them out. Then it becomes a different game.

That's what I'm thinking but it's kinda a Kobyashi Maru.   I know we had the wrong fleet for this but we could've done better.  In the types of fights we'll be doing in the turn-based F&E game killing the CVA isn't necessary, you just have to hurt it enough that the Feds decide to take it off the line and withdraw.

10 Disrupters will do about 20 points of damage at range 15 if the shots are coordinated which should be enough to plink apart the DEs, the problem is 8 Photons on Proxy will do about the same damage in a volley so you gotta get every shot off.

[Corbomite]

I don't think anything that the Klingons had available could have broke that fast castle we were doing. There is no reason for the Feds to chase anything except to rush up to OL range. At best the carrier would have been damaged enough to take it out of service for awhile. Keep in mind that the way the system works (right now), the defender gets to choose who fights who after the squads have been announced, so DH couldn't have chosen the matchups even if he wanted to make the most awsome carrier group killer squad.

[FPF-DieHard]

I don't think anything that the Klingons had available could have broke that fast castle we were doing. There is no reason for the Feds to chase anything except to rush up to OL range. At best the carrier would have been damaged enough to take it out of service for awhile. Keep in mind that the way the system works (right now), the defender gets to choose who fights who after the squads have been announced, so DH couldn't have chosen the matchups even if he wanted to make the most awsome carrier group killer squad.

Pretty much my thoughts, gathering data.  Just wanted to know if any of the "real" Klingons could think of something I couldn't.

[marstone]

I don't think anything that the Klingons had available could have broke that fast castle we were doing. There is no reason for the Feds to chase anything except to rush up to OL range. At best the carrier would have been damaged enough to take it out of service for awhile. Keep in mind that the way the system works (right now), the defender gets to choose who fights who after the squads have been announced, so DH couldn't have chosen the matchups even if he wanted to make the most awsome carrier group killer squad.

Understand under the rules the battle is the defenders choice, but I look at this as the academic after battle analysis.  Just the simple what would you have tried to fly question.

The question should be, how would you build your squads for this battle.  So show how you would have grouped all the ships in the battle.

[KBF-Crim]

I would have blitzed the CVA with the C8/ D7's  or maybe the maulers and ignored the escorts...kill it...kill it now..or die trying....

But what was the rest of the fed fleet?

What was left to fight?

I might have saved the D5 fleet for a better odds battle better suited for their speed turn modes,dizz arcs etc...with a droner back up..

[_Rondo_GE The OutLaw]

Tough fight.  CVA is late era no?

Kling Drones would be largely useless in this battle with the DE's flying around, at least in the beginning and middle game.  But their (Fed) drones won't be. Use phasers to clear their drones and save your AMD for the fighters if it can be done.

C5/C8  with either 2 FD7 or 2 MD5.  IMHO these are your best ships for this fight.

Variation 1

Slow Fight with DN & 2xFD7 (unless prohbited), attempting to stay at range, offer token drone and try to takeout DE and fighters before engaging mother ship inthe usual Kling way.  Targets of opportunity would be fighter squadrons... you fire at one only and see if you can kill it before it goes back intot he mother ship.

Variation 2

Power fight with 2 MD5 (mauler), DN disr on overload, maximum defenses on drones, attempt to cripple the mother ship , tractor 1 for fighters and to prevent a DE overrun (similar to a hydran fusion overrun).

Variation 3 (combo mode with D7 or a D7, MD5)

You could try Sabre dancing with the D7 combo and try to eliminate the DE's first then go in against fighters and   CVA in overloaded mode.  MD5 can be used to punch some hole in those Fed escort shields but the extreme DA arc might make that hard to do.

Fly stacked formation in all cases when charging the CVA.  Fly close formation when sabre danciing and switch out the end ship changing firing angles in a figure eight. 

Another variation on V2 would be to use a retreating starcastle.  Basicaly get within 20 clicks, set, hit one targ with the maulers and DN DISR, then retreat back and repeat until you reach the boarder, sabre dance around their flanks and retreat again until at leat one DE is crippled. 

Good luck. 

[FPF-DieHard]

I would have blitzed the CVA with the C8/ D7's  or maybe the maulers and ignored the escorts...kill it...kill it now..or die trying....

With balls of steal, the C8/FD7/D7  MIGHT be able to get close and cause enough havok on an early pass to damage one or two of the ships and then go back to a saberdance.   I'm not sure how successful this would be though.

But what was the rest of the fed fleet?

What was left to fight?

The other 2 battles were lost and 100% my fault for taking the wrong ships, I know what to take next time.   This one carrier group fight just looked un-winnable with the forces available.

[FPF-DieHard]

Variation 1

Slow Fight with DN & 2xFD7 (unless prohbited), attempting to stay at range, offer token drone and try to takeout DE and fighters before engaging mother ship inthe usual Kling way.  Targets of opportunity would be fighter squadrons... you fire at one only and see if you can kill it before it goes back intot he mother ship.

Might work, the Klinks only have 1 FD7 but sub for a D7K and you're on to something.   it's just a lot easier said than done.

Variation 2

Power fight with 2 MD5 (mauler), DN disr on overload, maximum defenses on drones, attempt to cripple the mother ship , tractor 1 for fighters and to prevent a DE overrun (similar to a hydran fusion overrun).

Maulers are useless in this fight.   You'd have to get VERY close for them to be affective and you'll eat a bunch of overloads and get run over by fighters.