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Topic: So, I was running my own SFB-like wargame with my brother....  (Read 3597 times)

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Offline FoaS_XC

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So, I was running my own SFB-like wargame with my brother....
« on: October 25, 2009, 04:22:01 pm »
I've read through the SFB rules (the basic set and a bunch of other material) and to be honest, I'm not a fan of it. I admire how nuanced it is, but I think it gets very heavy.
My brother and I were looking to play it, but didn't want to get bogged down, so I started writing my own version of the rules, which came full on into an entire self-contained wargame. I started designing an SSD for a constitution class ship, and I wanted to get some opinions on it.



I imagine it might help to explain some basic rules, as well.

Bear in mind, these are basic basic basic rules.

Sequence of play
1: Turn
 - a: Initiative (1d20 + command rating of each player's flagship)
 - b: Impulse (x4)
 - - i: Main Phase 1 (shield reinforcement, ECM/ECCM, etc; order of events is determined by initiative, lowest first, highest last)
 - - ii: movement phase (all players move their ships by order of initiative, lowest first, highest last; seeking weapons are moved but not resolved at the end of the movement phase)
 - - - 1. turning*
 - - - 2. intertia**
 - - - 3. turning*
 - - - 4. thrust
 - - - 5. turning*
 - - ii. Main Phase 2 (shield reinforcement, ECM/ECCM, etc; order of events is determined by initiative, lowest first, highest last)
 - - iii. Weapon's phase (each of these subphases of weapons have their weapons resolved at the end of the subphase; each subphase is resolved by the intiative, lowest first, highest last)
 - - - 1. Direct-fire***
 - - - 2. Seeking Weapons are resolved
 - - - 3. Direct-fire***
 - - iv. Main Phase 3 (shield reinforcement, ECM/ECCM, etc; order of events is determined by initiative, lowest first, highest last)

* turning is a little odd. each ship has a turning limit. that limit dictates how many hexsides their ship can change PER IMPULSE. A ship with a turn limit of 1 can elect to turn their ship at one of the turning subphases in the movement phase. A ship with a turn limit of 2 can turn their ship 1 hex-side at any two of the turning sub-phases (but not twice at one subphase). A ship that has three can turn their ship once per turning sub-phase. A ship with 4 can choose which subphase the extra turn will go into. A ship with 5 can choose two subphases in which to turn 2 hexsides (but cannot turn three times in a single subphase). Get where I am going here?

** It took me a few hours to iron out the inertia rules. Basically, you keep track of how much thrust is applied in each direction (which is NOT oriented to the ship, but rather to the map itself). You can use thrust to move forward or backwards (but each ship has a limit on how much thrust can be applied in one impulse; usually its different for forward and backwards). At the inertia phase you automatically move your ship in the amount and direction indicated by your inertia. A point of thrust applied in the opposite direction of an inertia point subtracts the intertia point. (I apologize if this sounds odd, but its actually rather simple in practice).

*** You can choose to fire your direct-fire weapons either before or after the seeking weapons are resolved. You can fire some before and some after, if you so choose.

Energy is drained as you use it, if you run out of power during your turn, you're out of luck, so it takes some foresight.

Direct-fire weaponry is resolved by using a d20. You have to roll above the to-hit for the range bracket your target is in. ECM increases your enemies die roll against you, ECCM counters die rolls modified against you to that target.

I am definitely open to suggestions or comments if you feel this can be improved. Bear in mind, however, that a lot of these rules aren't defined yet, or are under pre-alpha status.
« Last Edit: October 26, 2009, 09:17:26 pm by Furyofaseraph »
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Offline FoaS_XC

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Re: So, I was running my own SFB-like wargame with my brother....
« Reply #1 on: October 25, 2009, 04:51:04 pm »
Example Component explained
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Offline marstone

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Re: So, I was running my own SFB-like wargame with my brother....
« Reply #2 on: October 25, 2009, 05:10:04 pm »
Rules look interesting, haven't read through them fully yet.  Do you have file with all the general rules in them or are they just programmed in?
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Offline FoaS_XC

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Re: So, I was running my own SFB-like wargame with my brother....
« Reply #3 on: October 25, 2009, 05:25:05 pm »
I'm confused... This isn't a computer game remake of SFB, but rather a table-top remake of SFB - but very streamlined.

Right now, I don't have any rules written down, really, except whats in my head - which again, is a very dumbed-down SFB ruleset.

Also note, that I will converting most of SmileyLich's weaponry (well, star trek weapons at least), as well as making room for non-sfb races (cardassians, talarians, and stuff).
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Offline Lepton

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Re: So, I was running my own SFB-like wargame with my brother....
« Reply #4 on: October 25, 2009, 06:27:18 pm »
If you have a problem with the complexity of SFB ruleset as I do, you may want to look at Federation Commander, which is also an ADB product, that is basically stripped down SFB rules.

Free demo is here:

http://www.starfleetgames.com/federation/FCFirstMissions.pdf
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Offline FoaS_XC

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Re: So, I was running my own SFB-like wargame with my brother....
« Reply #5 on: October 25, 2009, 07:04:18 pm »
I've read through that, but not as in depth as I have SFB. It's a much easier game, but I like my WIP system more >.< - no need for base speeds and what not - Wild Weasels, ECM/ECCM, and everything else is still possible (not like in Federation Commander, which doesn't have ECM/ECCM).

Plus - this is the part I'm really proud of: INERTIA!
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Offline marstone

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Re: So, I was running my own SFB-like wargame with my brother....
« Reply #6 on: October 25, 2009, 09:18:56 pm »
Quote from: Furyofaseraph on October 25, 2009, 05:25:05 pm
I'm confused... This isn't a computer game remake of SFB, but rather a table-top remake of SFB - but very streamlined.

Right now, I don't have any rules written down, really, except whats in my head - which again, is a very dumbed-down SFB ruleset.

Also note, that I will converting most of SmileyLich's weaponry (well, star trek weapons at least), as well as making room for non-sfb races (cardassians, talarians, and stuff).

My bad on that, for some reason I read programming in there somewhere.  So I was seeing it as a turn based computer game being done, not a real turned base game (could be the modern day thing of everything being a computer game now).  I will read what you got now that I am up for work and see what I think. 
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Offline marstone

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Re: So, I was running my own SFB-like wargame with my brother....
« Reply #7 on: October 25, 2009, 09:25:57 pm »
Quote from: Furyofaseraph on October 25, 2009, 07:04:18 pm
I've read through that, but not as in depth as I have SFB. It's a much easier game, but I like my WIP system more >.< - no need for base speeds and what not - Wild Weasels, ECM/ECCM, and everything else is still possible (not like in Federation Commander, which doesn't have ECM/ECCM).

Plus - this is the part I'm really proud of: INERTIA!
Inertia is interesting.  Now depending on how you see space combat. Normal thruster based combat yes inertia would be a big thing.  So having to stop inertia would be important.  The warp bubble style of movement from SFB, not much real inertial as you are warping space around you not truely pushing your ship forward.

But as said, I will have to read more of your rules as the come along.  As an old show had a tag line in it was - VERY INTERESTING
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Offline FoaS_XC

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Re: So, I was running my own SFB-like wargame with my brother....
« Reply #8 on: October 26, 2009, 12:03:20 am »
combat is at sublight speed using impulse engines and RCS systems. Like SFB you can charge your warp coils for various effects (the equivalent of an SFB HET) or a quick burst of speed (ie: Picard maneuver) but any time you do that runs the risk of a failure to the Structural Integrity Fields (breakdown from SFB). The technobable way I look at it is that Tactical warp is actually still STL, not FTL. Warp drives operate at FTL speeds primarily, and running them at STL speeds is actually far more strenuous than running them at FTL.
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Offline FoaS_XC

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Re: So, I was running my own SFB-like wargame with my brother....
« Reply #9 on: October 26, 2009, 01:14:04 am »
One other thing I've decided on is that not every race uses the same type of phasers. Most of them use the same phasers as the federation, but the romulans and klingons use beam disruptors (their heavy weapons are pulse disruptors), the Cardassians and some other TNG races use a third kind of phasers (actually, cardassians use a combination of federation-stat phasers and the TNG-race phasers). Tholians use a unique type of phaser all together.

Note, that when I say TNG races, I don't mean that their weapons will have TNG stats - they will be balanced against the SFB races. I am referring to races that appear in TNG and don't exist in SFB: Cardassians, Ferengi, Talarian, so-on and so-forth.
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Offline TAnimaL

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Re: So, I was running my own SFB-like wargame with my brother....
« Reply #10 on: October 26, 2009, 07:08:28 pm »
Or as someone on another old TV show would say, "Fascinating."

I like the STL combat approach; I'm gonna need to read those inertia rules in order to really get them. but I like the direction they're heading (sorry, bad pun). I reallly like the different-races-different-phasers, an idea that SFB sorta had waaaay back in the beginning. why not just give

All in all, at first glance a nice start to a Star Trek game, and one that's more canon to boot. Do you plan to keep it flexible, sort of open-source with optional weaons as in FulThrust, et. al.? As much as I love SFC (and it's SFB roots), you never heard a Starfleet Captain say, "Fire Drones!"
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Offline FoaS_XC

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Re: So, I was running my own SFB-like wargame with my brother....
« Reply #11 on: October 26, 2009, 09:15:49 pm »
Well - you aren't wrestling with a computer program, so I imagine that a pen+paper game is inherently much more flexible. Open Source? I guess so - I don't want to step on ADB's toes, though.

We'll see how it goes.

BTW: I've decided to make it 4 impulses per turn. It gets easier to convert speeds from SFB to this when using 4 impulses (plasmas move 8 hex's per impulse, Sabot move 10, etc, etc).

The thing I'm hitting an impass on is building a system to make ships.
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"When I was 5 years old, my mom always told me that happiness was the key to life. When I went to school, they asked me what I wanted to be when I grew up. I wrote down “happy.” They told me I didn’t understand the assignment and I told them they didn’t understand life."

Offline marstone

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Re: So, I was running my own SFB-like wargame with my brother....
« Reply #12 on: October 26, 2009, 09:57:06 pm »
Quote from: Furyofaseraph on October 26, 2009, 09:15:49 pm
Well - you aren't wrestling with a computer program, so I imagine that a pen+paper game is inherently much more flexible. Open Source? I guess so - I don't want to step on ADB's toes, though.

We'll see how it goes.

BTW: I've decided to make it 4 impulses per turn. It gets easier to convert speeds from SFB to this when using 4 impulses (plasmas move 8 hex's per impulse, Sabot move 10, etc, etc).

The thing I'm hitting an impass on is building a system to make ships.

I had a system to build SFB ships that mostly worked out, but it is lost in my giant stack of Sh*t.  It worked with a Structural integrety system systems needed structual points so you don't tear the ship apart using them.  The more SP the bigger the ship, extra SP gave more hull hits.
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Offline FoaS_XC

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Re: So, I was running my own SFB-like wargame with my brother....
« Reply #13 on: October 26, 2009, 10:08:52 pm »
I was thinking of going along the same lines.

Basically, I wanted to find a system that would be scalable across eras - which could work.

Imagine, a CA in the ENT era only has 50 Structure points, whereas a CA in the TMP era could have 80 allowing for 'bigger' systems (the size class would remain the same, though).

The other thing is scalability of ship components. For example: a CA in the ENT era would have a basic ECM/ECCM suite which only allows him to have a limit of 3 EW points - a TMP era ships might have a limit of 7 or 8 EW points. I want to combine this with a sort of "research tree" for my campaign (which I guess will serve as the basic timeline for the game). the Federation might research the 7 EW limit sooner than the Klingons might. This same thing could apply to things like Engines. A coefficient is used to determine thrust (when compared to size class). That coefficient increases the better your engine research is.

So on and so forth.
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Offline FoaS_XC

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Re: So, I was running my own SFB-like wargame with my brother....
« Reply #14 on: October 26, 2009, 11:36:26 pm »
Chart for the Plasma-A (which are a triaxian invention)
Edit2: Found a problem with the plasmas - (they ended up being twice the range they were supposed to be)


Here's a chart for the Plasma-A Sabot refit
« Last Edit: October 28, 2009, 02:31:40 pm by Furyofaseraph »
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Offline FoaS_XC

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Re: So, I was running my own SFB-like wargame with my brother....
« Reply #15 on: October 29, 2009, 12:57:08 am »
I have added a section to my own forums where I will develop this. If you wish to join in the discussion you'll need to register and what not.
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"When I was 5 years old, my mom always told me that happiness was the key to life. When I went to school, they asked me what I wanted to be when I grew up. I wrote down “happy.” They told me I didn’t understand the assignment and I told them they didn’t understand life."
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