Topic: The Thread of Candle (Read 10866 times)

candle_86 · « **on:** October 10, 2009, 10:37:00 pm »

at the request of others and there general asking I have made just a thread and only a single thread to post my work, ive started redoing the tiber just because

thats the new engy hull how much better does it look?

I decided instead of having to hand shape it the hard way, an elgated cylinder, a sphere and a sphere where i moved the sides to make way for a rounded back and of course flatended it out ect made for a nicer thing with boolean cut

FoaS_XC · « **Reply #1 on:** October 10, 2009, 11:22:38 pm »

Much better form than your last bunch of models. I would still be careful of your polycount - making a model with no more than 15k triangles is a good start.

candle_86 · « **Reply #2 on:** October 11, 2009, 01:05:27 am »

here are some renders

FoaS_XC · « **Reply #3 on:** October 11, 2009, 12:33:46 pm »

You might want to thicken up those nacelle struts and widen the distance between the nacelles.

candle_86 · « **Reply #4 on:** October 11, 2009, 01:18:56 pm »

is it an improvement over tiber v1?

FoaS_XC · « **Reply #5 on:** October 11, 2009, 01:28:05 pm »

Quote from: Furyofaseraph on October 10, 2009, 11:22:38 pm

Much better form than your last bunch of models.

candle_86 · « **Reply #6 on:** October 12, 2009, 09:47:25 pm »

built this also, I had to use those nacelles i built

atheorhaven · « **Reply #7 on:** October 13, 2009, 01:48:01 am »

Quote from: candle_86 on October 12, 2009, 09:47:25 pm

built this also, I had to use those nacelles i built

Nice.. beginning of a TOS era Constellation?

candle_86 · « **Reply #8 on:** October 13, 2009, 01:56:11 am »

yea ive got some work to do on it still namley get rid of some polies its 15k cause i made the nacelles to round lol prolly gotta weld vertices together and try to get it down to a reasonable level atleast also need to make a TOS style torp launcher and make my shuttle bay doors

joker · « **Reply #9 on:** October 13, 2009, 06:37:01 am »

your models get better with each one i see. good job.

Bernard Guignard · « **Reply #10 on:** October 13, 2009, 10:27:17 am »

Keep at it your getting better with each ship your producing

Roychipoqua_Mace · « **Reply #11 on:** October 13, 2009, 10:45:15 am »

These are really looking nice! On the latest one with four nacelles, have you thought about having the nacelle ends face outward instead of inward?

candle_86 · « **Reply #12 on:** October 13, 2009, 12:17:05 pm »

there is still alot i dont grasp, i wish i had started back in 99 with everyone else, im 10 years late to the game lol

rebuilt the nacelees, changing the naceels out dropped it from 17k poly to 7k

candle_86 · « **Reply #13 on:** October 13, 2009, 03:38:08 pm »

here she is rendered in mod viewer, gonna texture next yay lol

candle_86 · « **Reply #14 on:** October 13, 2009, 08:31:10 pm »

what i call a major hull update call it what you want lol, i dont want to add anything else, its doing about 94FPS on the mod viewer

atheorhaven · « **Reply #15 on:** October 13, 2009, 11:19:05 pm »

Just a suggestion.. have you considered small dual deflectors on the front of the saucer? I took a look at the TNG era Constellation and noticed a dual impulse assembly at the back of a superstructure, and I think they use a built-in deflector on the TNG version. These small dishes have been seen in the past (I remember them on a Galactic Survey Cruiser).

candle_86 · « **Reply #16 on:** October 13, 2009, 11:23:41 pm »

i considered it, but decided i didnt want the dual impulse engines honestly, to TMP for a tos ship lol. As for dual deflectors some like it, I hate it, i dont use any ship with dual deflectors i just hate the look personally

i started some texture work tell me what ya think so far

candle_86 · « **Reply #17 on:** October 14, 2009, 12:29:54 am »

im off to bed but leave you with this

atheorhaven · « **Reply #18 on:** October 14, 2009, 01:00:32 am »

Quote from: candle_86 on October 14, 2009, 12:29:54 am

im off to bed but leave you with this

Maybe decrease the size of the lit part a bit..

candle_86 · « **Reply #19 on:** October 14, 2009, 11:52:18 am »

some more textures

dogfighter · « **Reply #20 on:** October 14, 2009, 12:04:29 pm »

nice model candle. you get the feling for proportions. however you use wwwaaaayyyyyy too much polygons for an ingame model. most times less polies will do the job and for small details you can use textures. keeping the polycount low it is much easier to modify the mesh.
but what do i know...i use wwwaaaaayyyyyy to few polygons on most of my models.

if you keep the basic mehs low on poygons you can do more details on the mesh as well. rims and baydoors and phaserturrets and things like that.

ed:)

FoaS_XC · « **Reply #21 on:** October 14, 2009, 06:04:32 pm »

Quote from: dogfighter on October 14, 2009, 12:04:29 pm

however you use wwwaaaayyyyyy too much polygons for an ingame model.

I've seen this mentioned at least four times in your various threads. I am curious as to hard data. How many triangles is this ship, exactly?

candle_86 · « **Reply #22 on:** October 14, 2009, 06:43:23 pm »

11825 triangles, i hate them to look unsmooth, but how many SFC users are still playing on low end hardware?

I don't force anyone to use it, and im sorry if its not 5k polies like some others are, but this models are also going to BC as well as SFC so mesh smoothness also matters to me because it wont be seen from just distance

FoaS_XC · « **Reply #23 on:** October 14, 2009, 06:45:35 pm »

With the uninterrupted features of this design, could make this model within 7k or 8k triangles. For saucers I try not to go above 48 segments along the circumfrance. Nacelles are 24 or 32 at the most.

candle_86 · « **Reply #24 on:** October 14, 2009, 07:02:59 pm »

saucer is 60 segments, nacceles each are 40 but there is bevel work and half a 40 segment sphere on it. Now I will optimize it later, using Gmax's tool which i find i like on certain surfaces, like the buzzards ect, it cleans up alot of extra polies without me having to redraw the whole thing. But I dont do that till i get there on the mesh the struts are last along with the nacelles they will get optimized tonight

each nacelle is 800 polies by itself, not including other geometry, i wish it didnt triangle to render but we went with triangles not quadratics for 3d gaming

FoaS_XC · « **Reply #25 on:** October 14, 2009, 07:34:25 pm »

Optimizing is one way to do it, but to be honest, I think it is disadvantageous. Building the model from the ground up to be light on the polies but still keeping the lines intact (instead of the omlet that optimize creates) is much more desirable.

candle_86 · « **Reply #26 on:** October 14, 2009, 07:52:05 pm »

well the tiber has optimize on it also, i use it to get ride of the tons of extra polies at the front of spheres mainly or in thin cylinder segments, that got shrunk from a big one. Take my sensor dish the little bar that goes into the dish then the one from the dish to the little ball is still 60 segments, but I could lower that drasticlly with optimize without loosing shape and withotu the pain in the ass that is weld lol

FoaS_XC · « **Reply #27 on:** October 14, 2009, 07:57:00 pm »

I agree that welding is a pain in the ass, but an even better thing to do is build the model with efficiency in mind from the ground up. I don't know how far advanced GMax's tools are, but if they are worth a damn, you should be able to remove or add entire loops instead of welding each vertex.

i should make a video tutorial about a ship from start to finish...

candle_86 · « **Reply #28 on:** October 14, 2009, 10:51:39 pm »

something diffrent someone asked for a tank on another fourm for CnC generals so i made one lol

also its only 354 triangles lol

though its static i told him i dunno how to make the barrel rotate lol

joker · « **Reply #29 on:** October 15, 2009, 01:11:28 pm »

its a good start there, which c&c forum are you a member of?

candle_86 · « **Reply #30 on:** October 15, 2009, 03:58:47 pm »

command and patch lol

also a classic from staryards dated of course so im giving it the face lift it deserves, see if you recogize it yet

FoaS_XC · « **Reply #31 on:** October 15, 2009, 04:05:52 pm »

I'm guessing its the Discovery, but you need to add a smooth, rounder, curve to the front of the secondary hull.

candle_86 · « **Reply #32 on:** October 15, 2009, 04:18:33 pm »

i intend to im getting the basic shape done first, but it did need a face lift dont ya think lol

candle_86 · « **Reply #33 on:** October 15, 2009, 09:47:52 pm »

discovery is on the back burner though the constellation is still progressing I whipped this up though what do ya think. I havnt came up with a class name lol though with the nacelles im saying early 23rd century

markyd · « **Reply #34 on:** October 16, 2009, 07:38:45 am »

still using too many polies mate, ur getting better though.. try to make a low poly but modern shuttle, i.e make a low poly type 15 shuttle, then try to make it less and less. helps

candle_86 · « **Reply #35 on:** October 16, 2009, 01:45:31 pm »

that one is only 13k triangles

FoaS_XC · « **Reply #36 on:** October 16, 2009, 01:48:17 pm »

For the level of detail that you are working with thats way too much

Tus-XC · « **Reply #37 on:** October 16, 2009, 02:17:07 pm »

Quote from: candle_86 on October 16, 2009, 01:45:31 pm

that one is only 13k triangles

the cylinder for the nacelle should be between 18 and 24 iterations, it looks like you got 64 on the naccels and the hull. The saucer on the other hand needs more iterations, looks like your at 24 to 32 at most(of coruse it could be the smoothing throwing me off on the saucer), should be somewhere around 48 iterations (welding on the way in from the rim to reduce polies of course). Just did quick count, looks like you have 48 iteration rim on the saucer, your smoothin groups are making it look funky though. I personally go higher for the saucer rim then do alot of welding to reduce polies (ie 64 iteration rim, but the rest of the saucer is closer to 32 iterations)

And i would agree, 6.5 k polies is a bit much for the LoD your working with. My suggestion would be to back away from the mindset that more polies is better, and work on a minimlistic one instead. Once you've got the basics down (ie understand what the min you need for it to look good) then work up and add detail. It tends to be easier to add detail rather than trying to remove it.

FoaS_XC · « **Reply #38 on:** October 16, 2009, 02:21:04 pm »

I'm detecting a pattern.....

FoaS_XC · « **Reply #39 on:** October 16, 2009, 02:40:16 pm »

Quote from: Tus-XC on October 16, 2009, 02:17:07 pm

Quote from: candle_86 on October 16, 2009, 01:45:31 pm
that one is only 13k triangles

the cylinder for the nacelle should be between 18 and 24 iterations, it looks like you got 64 on the naccels and the hull. The saucer on the other hand needs more iterations, looks like your at 24 to 32 at most(of coruse it could be the smoothing throwing me off on the saucer), should be somewhere around 48 iterations (welding on the way in from the rim to reduce polies of course). Just did quick count, looks like you have 48 iteration rim on the saucer, your smoothin groups are making it look funky though. I personally go higher for the saucer rim then do alot of welding to reduce polies (ie 64 iteration rim, but the rest of the saucer is closer to 32 iterations)

And i would agree, 6.5 k polies is a bit much for the LoD your working with. My suggestion would be to back away from the mindset that more polies is better, and work on a minimlistic one instead. Once you've got the basics down (ie understand what the min you need for it to look good) then work up and add detail. It tends to be easier to add detail rather than trying to remove it.

48 polies can work, actually - my kelvin-esque ships use 48 edges around the circumference of the saucer.

Tus-XC · « **Reply #40 on:** October 16, 2009, 02:44:52 pm »

Quote from: Furyofaseraph on October 16, 2009, 02:40:16 pm

48 polies can work, actually - my kelvin-esque ships use 48 edges around the circumference of the saucer.

O yeah, you can use 48 - I just like higher for my rims. Then again I don't continue the 64 iterations all the way in, only at the rims. So its closer to a 24 to 32 iteration saucer in poly count (i've even gotten them down to a 16 iteration poly count, didn't like the look though), but w/ a 64 it rim.

FoaS_XC · « **Reply #41 on:** October 16, 2009, 02:50:51 pm »

Quote from: Fallen_Warrior on October 16, 2009, 02:40:25 pm

Quote from: Furyofaseraph on October 16, 2009, 02:21:04 pm
I'm detecting a pattern.....

The Pattern of everyone saying "Use less Polies" maybe?

Indeed....

Quote from: Tus-XC on October 16, 2009, 02:44:52 pm

Quote from: Furyofaseraph on October 16, 2009, 02:40:16 pm
48 polies can work, actually - my kelvin-esque ships use 48 edges around the circumference of the saucer.

O yeah, you can use 48 - I just like higher for my rims. Then again I don't continue the 64 iterations all the way in, only at the rims. So its closer to a 24 to 32 iteration saucer in poly count (i've even gotten them down to a 16 iteration poly count, didn't like the look though), but w/ a 64 it rim.

Ah, see - I don't like to reduce the poly count as I get closer to the center of the saucer. I will if i absolutely must, but I don't like to - it screws with meshsmoothing (in case i want to use the model for that) as well as cell-shaders (in case I want to use the model for that, too).

Tus-XC · « **Reply #42 on:** October 16, 2009, 03:02:10 pm »

Quote from: Furyofaseraph on October 16, 2009, 02:50:51 pm

Ah, see - I don't like to reduce the poly count as I get closer to the center of the saucer. I will if i absolutely must, but I don't like to - it screws with meshsmoothing (in case i want to use the model for that) as well as cell-shaders (in case I want to use the model for that, too).

Well the welding is only done after i'm sure that is what I want. I use turbosmooth as i work up from basic shapes, but never after i've begun optimizing. Never works then

FoaS_XC · « **Reply #43 on:** October 16, 2009, 03:09:01 pm »

I mean I'll apply turbosmooths and what not for renders, not for the game model.

Rod ONeal · « **Reply #44 on:** October 16, 2009, 04:11:22 pm »

For saucers try using 24 to 32 and then subdivide the last row by 2 to get a smooth edge. You can then remove some loops on the vertical edge of the saucer where you don't need the subdivisions.

This saucer started with 28 divisions. I subD the last row by 2 which gives it 112 on the rim without having the whole saucer use 112 which would have made the poly count for the bridge and impulse area enormously high for no good reason.

The nacelles started as a 28 sided sphere. There's no obvious faceting on them at any distance you are going to see it at in game.

candle_86 · « **Reply #45 on:** October 16, 2009, 06:27:06 pm »

well my saucer isnt 48 its 60, nacelles are also 60 along with engy hull. I hate it to look unsmooth and I can notice it. My tiber for instance is 12k and runs just fine on my system and is also visablly smooth, the shading distortion on the render i cant explain it doenst look that way rendered in .mod

FoaS_XC · « **Reply #46 on:** October 16, 2009, 06:28:40 pm »

The problem is that you aren't separating your smoothing groups - so it gets borked in game. Check otu my youtube channel. The Second Break-Model tutorial has an explination.

www.youtube.com/robinomicon

Tus-XC · « **Reply #47 on:** October 16, 2009, 06:43:41 pm »

Quote from: candle_86 on October 16, 2009, 06:27:06 pm

well my saucer isnt 48 its 60, nacelles are also 60 along with engy hull. I hate it to look unsmooth and I can notice it. My tiber for instance is 12k and runs just fine on my system and is also visablly smooth, the shading distortion on the render i cant explain it doenst look that way rendered in .mod

60 iterations on the naccels and hull is defintly overkill. at most 32, 18-24 is preferable though. The saucer, if you wish to keep it at iterations, really needs to have a lot of welding done to the interior (much like rods example) to reduce polies. The reality is the further in you go, the less those iterations matter, and the more wasted polies you develop. Your goal is to utilize all your polies to their max, and that means using them wisely and learning a few tricks of the trade

FoaS_XC · « **Reply #48 on:** October 16, 2009, 07:24:56 pm »

If you want to look at it a certain way, too, you can say that the more planar that the faces are in relation to one another the less you need verts, but thats getting pretty convoluted.

markyd · « **Reply #49 on:** October 18, 2009, 06:16:20 am »

Candle you need to listen to what these guys are telling you, and Rod has shown a perfect example of how it is done, anything other than that is just lazy.

candle_86 · « **Reply #50 on:** October 21, 2009, 07:17:52 am »

well im back, sorry i didnt reply sooner I just got an ulcer removed and spent a few days in the hospital got released about an hour ago

markyd · « **Reply #51 on:** October 21, 2009, 08:43:56 am »

Lol and the first thing ya do is go straight back to your models

I like your style.

candle_86 · « **Reply #52 on:** October 25, 2009, 10:05:16 pm »

well no, i started a job actully, taking most of my time, I work at home for my mothers union, im building there website and webmastering it, im 24/7 on call for problems and am spending most of my time not spent with the wife working, so ive gotta take a break on the models, work before play.

atheorhaven · « **Reply #53 on:** October 26, 2009, 12:55:59 am »

Yes, and wives are work, not play.

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Topic: The Thread of Candle (Read 10866 times) var addthis_config = {"data_track_clickback":true};

Topic: The Thread of Candle (Read 10866 times)