Topic: TOS Excelsior

[FoaS_XC]

Candle, I'm not sure if it's because of how much of a visual-centric person I am, or your tendency to write run-on sentences, but I cannot make heads or tails of what you just said.

Are you listing changes yuo would make to the Canon excelsior to make it TOS like? Are you listing changes to the JJ-Abrams-style excelsior posted in this thread, or are you listing changes to the TOS excelsior made by atolm?

"The cargo doors id reshape to not be so flat more bubble type and taller as a result."

I don't understand. to what cargo doors are you referring? the cut outs on the back/bottom of the excelsior hull, or the shuttlebay on the top, stern-most end of the excelsior?

"impulse engines leave the line work, but remove the little balls on them flatten it out and add a line going down each strip to the engine exhast and instead of being curved make it more flat back but rounded tips like a connies with a an exhuase grid."

1) take a breath.
2) Again, I'm not really sure to which version of the presented designs you are referring to. What 'little balls'? are you referring to the impulse deflection crystal, or the little running lights? Further, to what curve in the impulse engine are you referring - once again, without knowing which excelsior you are referring to, its hard to guess what you are talking about.
Are you talking about this curve?

or one of these curves?


It may help to use more descriptive terms than "little ball" or "that curve there". Yes, using trek or even real-life ship architectural terminology seems a little pedantic, but using them makes it easier for people to follow along with what you are saying.

[candle_86]

maybe this helps its crude.

Of course the colors would change, also i think a more TOS style looking saucer lip, but still pointed inward just TOS style, where the top of the saucer doesnt sit flat then buldge up but slopes from the rim up. The lines I mean it how the impulse drives are seperate at the rear keep them that way, just remove the obvious TMP styling and of course the crystal at the top for the impulse drive.

[FoaS_XC]

I don't think that a simple kitbash or redesign of the excelsior will fly. I think that we need to approach in that we need to find the design that is the obvious predecessor to the excelsior that exists. That isn't going to be done by just adding TOS nacelles and a deflector dish to the excelsior that exists already.

I've been chewing on it in the back of my head - I think I'll be ready to render out a quick model in a few minutes.

EDIT:

Nope! Didn't come to me - I'll try again tomorrow.

[atheorhaven]

Done and Done you guys should have it by now

It's here, and looking sharp. 

[FoaS_XC]

Indeed, on both counts. Thanks GAFY

[atheorhaven]

I just used it for bashing together an idea (and I apologize in advance for the atrocities performed here this day on such a pretty ship).

I streched and mauled the Helena a little bit plus added in a couple of pylons from a TMP Excelsior just to see how it'd look, and it looks like how Scotty described the TMP Excelsior. 

But as a testbed of ideas, I could see this one.  Bigger nacelles, another section in the secondary hull, flattened saucer keeping the standard TOS bridge, no back bump (to be upgraded in TMP times due to a lot of stress on the spaceframe in the back).  Yup, could see it.

(No, not planning on releasing this, this is just an dea of the concept I had.)

[FoaS_XC]

food for though, alec.

What we see in the excelsior, from a starship design standpoint, is a temporary shift on a couple of things. in proportion to each other, the saucer gets smaller and the nacelles and body get longer. The other thing is that the body shape goes from being a cylinder to instead being a half-sphere (shuttlebutts nonewithstanding). If we zoom out and examine other ship lineage, we notice that the TMP excelsior is pretty much the only major design to have a half-sphere body (i am referring to the idea that the top of the body is suddenly flat). Any other elements of a TOS excelsior will be easy to bring about - it may take a bit of poking and stretching, but in the end we will come up with something good. I think that the hardest question to be answered about the TOS excel is this: Should we maintain the half-circle cross-section of the secondary hull seen in the Excelsior proper, or should we embrace the idea that the TOS excel might've started off with a more traditional cylindrical secondary hull before migrating to the half-circle cross-section seen in the excelsior proper.

This question will decide the rest of the design, I think. It will determine what kind of neck we ought to use (A cylindrical body would make for a thin neck, ala Connie, but a half-circle cross-section hull needs a thick neck, like we see in the excelsior proper). The body shape will also determine how the nacelles are attached. Should the struts pop out of the body like on the connie, or rest on top. The saucer and the saucer extremities will be very easy to tag on, and I don't think that will be a problem.

I would also like to, as an example, point out the Garth-class crusier that atolm and Tus made. That has a very excelsior-esque hull.

[atheorhaven]

The Helena hull isn't so far removed from the semi-circle actually.. imagine taking that external deflector and embedding it into the hull after you rework the front of the secondary hull to help protect it a bit more.  You remove that little jog from above the deflector, and you've suddently got something very close to the TMP Excelsior for styling, especially if you then pancake out the top of the secondary hull when you reinforce the Helena's TOS spaceframe and create the flat surfboard top of the TMP Excel.

Again, the bash I did is just primarily a study model, but I could see a ship starting here and ending at the TMP Excel.  Just not sure about the back pylons.. those could also go the standard straight pylons at first, but more sticking out like Mackie's "Davids.

[GotAFarmYet?]

Nothing stable has come to me yet lots of ideas started to float around my head though.

I think I will add somethings to consider though, from Madman over at SciFi Meshes
He did a JJ styled Excel and I do like the idea of his new federation fleet he is doing

[FoaS_XC]

My take.

Now this uses the nacelles of WZ's resolute - but more traditional TOS nacelles could easily be used without breaking the idea of the model... OR even JJ nacelles that have been TOS-ified.

[joker]

Nice man. I think the saucer rim should be at the same angle as a tos connie saucer though, and those necelles look great. 

[FoaS_XC]

The edge of the saucer was an attempt at an homage to the excelsior proper. You'll notice that the dorsal and ventral surface forms conform to what the connie does, though.

The nacelles are actually WZs, not mine.

[joker]

Yeah, I can see what you where doing and its real nice. But the saucer rim screams late TMP not TOS to me, but then its just one opinion dude.
Nice work

here is some necelles i have started on, very early yet and want to detail them much more

[FoaS_XC]

I like the design, but I think it may taper off too drastically.

BTW, you might be right about the saucer edge.

[candle_86]

here is my idea for them, i know im not helping build this but its a general idea, i like your nacelles but they dont fit the TOS Era to rounded and complex for the era, here is my take on what id thik as a possibility. Its a shape because im not on the projust didnt want to get into full design elements but maybe give you a basic idea

Edit well did this i might use this somewhere

[FoaS_XC]

The nacelles I have on there fit into what I plan on doing with it - I refer you to my modeling thread. I even said in my original post with the design I even acknowledged that.

...but more traditional TOS nacelles could easily be used without breaking the idea of the model... OR even JJ nacelles that have been TOS-ified....

and actually - the WZ's Resolute style nacelles fit better with the TOS excelsior more than a typical TOS nacelle would, in order to further foster a ancestor/descendant relationship between the two

BUT, this is a subjective matter, which is further built upon another subjective matter: TOS-Purism.
Again, in my modeling thread - there is evidence that I think that pure TOS design is outdated and shows its age when compared to present-day design qualities. After all, Star Trek is supposed to take place in the future - I don't think that the designs should stay in the 60's interpretation of the future (which is a major plus to Star Trek: Enterprise, I thought). This is why I've kind of "reformatted" the classic TOS look. This TOS excelsior further reflects that.

[candle_86]

yes i see your reasoning but the connie refit changed alot of the lines especilly on the nacelles there is nothing in common at all. And personal tastes for me, are a total dislike for JJ type anything lol

[atheorhaven]

FOAS, I like the new saucer and secondary hull, but I think the front of the nacelles are too over the top personally.  But then again, I think I'm leaning towards the '60's styling and not the Abrham's version.  Simple, clean and elegant and grey. 

[GotAFarmYet?]

This is more of a TMP Connie looking Excelsior but you can see how to follow the design back to a more TOS look with it as it has good design elements to it

[FoaS_XC]

Good show GAFY!