Topic: Is this legal? "NVIDIA disables PhysX support when ATI GPU is installed" (Read 2178 times)

Rod ONeal · « **on:** October 04, 2009, 12:32:22 am »

http://www.slashgear.com/nvidia-disables-physx-support-when-ati-gpu-is-installed-2558108/

I would bet good money that there will be few this little tidbit will affect, but NVIDIA has apparently disabled support for PhysX processing on its GPUs when an ATI GPU is present. This would only affect users who have an NVIDIA card installed for PhysX and an ATI card for graphics.

A poster on the NGOHQ forums received an email reply from NVIDIA support explaining the issue. NVIDIA says in part that the issue had to do with some “business reasons” along with quality assurance reasons. This apparently happens with version 186 and newer drivers.

The full email reads:

“Hello JC,

Ill explain why this function was disabled.

Physx is an open software standard any company can freely develop hardware or software that supports it. Nvidia supports GPU accelerated Physx on NVIDIA GPUs while using NVIDIA GPUs for graphics. NVIDIA performs extensive Engineering, Development, and QA work that makes Physx a great experience for customers. For a variety of reasons – some development expense some quality assurance and some business reasons NVIDIA will not support GPU accelerated Physx with NVIDIA GPUs while GPU rendering is happening on non- NVIDIA GPUs. I’m sorry for any inconvenience caused but I hope you can understand.

Best Regards,
Troy
NVIDIA Customer Care”

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Sounds like another example of a company taking unfair advantage of it's place in the market place to me. What's next, after they release Larabee M$ disabling direct X if they detect another manufacturers GPU in your system? This is so dumb!!! I guess if I own another company's video card Nvidea doesn't want me to go and purchase one of their cards to have physx. Either I purchase 2 of their cards or I can't have it. Well it's not that important a feature to me to get rid of my current card, if it's not Nvidea, and purchase 2 of their cards. I'd be really pissed if I had already bought an Nvidea card to use along with another card for physyx, had been using it that way, and then after the fact they disabled it.

Pestalence_XC · « **Reply #1 on:** October 04, 2009, 07:45:57 am »

Well, It is kinda dumb to run an ATI card and an NVidia card and "Trying" to get them to wwork in SLI / XFire .. they were not originally designed for that..

ATI has HAVOC on their cards for Physx.. NVidia has Physx from their sub company Agia

I would guess that NVidia is wanting to do this to help prevent returns on their Video Cards due to accidental damage by people force crossing their hardware while attempting to get advantages from both cards which was not intended by design of the cards.

the Physx software will not work on ATI cards at all anyways.. which is why ATI developed Havoc for their own Physx engine.. it isn't as good as NVidia's Physx engine, but it will suffice for ATI users.

so my thought is that NVidia is perfectly within their bounds since NVidia owns Agia, Agia invented the Physx software (slowly changing name to CUDA), the NVidia cards come with Agia Physx Processors built in, as such making the Physx software check for the proper hardware before it will operate is only a smart thing to do.

Some games already check for disk space, CPU, GPU, OS type, ETC before it will install and they don't get sued.. MS checks your system config before the newest version of Windows installs and that looks to be perfectly legal...

so how is it that when NVidia decides to take their own software and make it check for their own hardware to help prevent getting returns for their GPUs due to idiots cross SLIing compedators Vid Cards illegal?

NVidia is only protecting themselves from User damaged returns of video cards.

If you have a NVidia card and want to go SLI.. then go get another NVidia Card for a 2nd card.. they hve the best GPUs on the market with the best driver support anyways..

If you like ATI cards, then go for X-Fire hookup with 2 ATI cards and use ATI's HAVOC software to enable Physx..sure the performance will be about 80% of what you would get out of equivalent NVidia cards, but at least you don't risk damaging your components..

I think NVidia is just attempting to help prevent component damage and reduce number of returns.

Rod ONeal · « **Reply #2 on:** October 04, 2009, 02:49:24 pm »

I think you need to reread the OP. People were using the ATI for graphics and Nvidea for physyx. They worked fine. There was no legit reason given to disable physyx. No reported damage to Nvidea hardware. No reported bugs. Just some possible potential problems they were trying to avoid. ie, non existent problems. Of course there was the real reason, the "business reason". They want people to use their cards and their cards only and disabling physyx helps to force that on people.

What ATI has or doesn't have is irrelevant. They aren't disabling any features on their cards when they detect another company's hardware. This is purely a question of whether or not Nvidea has the right to disable features on my card, which I bought and paid for, in my computer because they detect competitor's hardware. I don't believe they do. They would have to show where there was some liability to them. Some liability other than allowing people the choice to buy whatever hardware they want to.

Video card manufacturers don't offer support for their consumer gaming cards if you run into bugs running them with your 3D software either, Max, Lightwave, etc., but they don't disable their cards if they detect professional 3D software on your computer. If you report a bug with 3D software operating with their cards you just get a simple, we do not offer support with 3D software email back.

Sirgod · « **Reply #3 on:** October 04, 2009, 04:03:57 pm »

Sacred 2 comes to mind. The only way I could get it to work was to use Nvidia's Physx driver.

Even though I was using an AGP ATI card.

Otherwise, myself and many others could not play it at all.

Stephen

Nemesis · « **Reply #4 on:** October 04, 2009, 05:41:50 pm »

Probably legal as they don't have a monopoly but dirty pool none the less.

Rod ONeal · « **Reply #5 on:** October 06, 2009, 03:30:18 am »

Well, I don't think anyone here uses it, but just in case, here's a fix that some users came up with so they could continue to use their hardware setups for physyx with the latest drivers.

http://www.ngohq.com/graphic-cards/16223-nvidia-disables-physx-when-ati-card-is-present-28.html#post82812

What's next? Are they going to license SLI so people have to pay for the privilege of buying 2 of their cards? Oh wait, they already do that.

Sorry, but this type of marketing strategy is just so short sighted it drives me crazy.

candle_86 · « **Reply #6 on:** October 06, 2009, 02:46:30 pm »

there is nothing wrong here, physx is an nvidia owned property they can decide the situation's its allowed to be used. If 3rd party's disagree nvidia does not prevent them from making there own drivers

Just plain old Punisher · « **Reply #7 on:** October 06, 2009, 03:52:14 pm »

Why in the hell would you want to do that anyways? It's not like you could get an SLI setup running.

candle_86 · « **Reply #8 on:** October 06, 2009, 04:38:57 pm »

Quote from: Rod ONeal on October 06, 2009, 03:30:18 am

Well, I don't think anyone here uses it, but just in case, here's a fix that some users came up with so they could continue to use their hardware setups for physyx with the latest drivers.

http://www.ngohq.com/graphic-cards/16223-nvidia-disables-physx-when-ati-card-is-present-28.html#post82812

What's next? Are they going to license SLI so people have to pay for the privilege of buying 2 of their cards? Oh wait, they already do that.

Sorry, but this type of marketing strategy is just so short sighted it drives me crazy.

well it isnt to protect themselves there name is on the line, if a later drive comes out from ATI and causes problems Nvidia gets blamed. As for SLI its certification so Nvidia can test the board works right with SLI. Yes they charge for it, why would they waste there time testing. They have there own chipsets, you want another chipset tested pay for it

Rod ONeal · « **Reply #9 on:** October 07, 2009, 03:32:02 am »

Quote from: candle_86 on October 06, 2009, 04:38:57 pm

Quote from: Rod ONeal on October 06, 2009, 03:30:18 am
Well, I don't think anyone here uses it, but just in case, here's a fix that some users came up with so they could continue to use their hardware setups for physyx with the latest drivers.

http://www.ngohq.com/graphic-cards/16223-nvidia-disables-physx-when-ati-card-is-present-28.html#post82812

What's next? Are they going to license SLI so people have to pay for the privilege of buying 2 of their cards? Oh wait, they already do that.

Sorry, but this type of marketing strategy is just so short sighted it drives me crazy.

well it isnt to protect themselves there name is on the line, if a later drive comes out from ATI and causes problems Nvidia gets blamed. As for SLI its certification so Nvidia can test the board works right with SLI. Yes they charge for it, why would they waste there time testing. They have there own chipsets, you want another chipset tested pay for it

Sorry mate, this is total horsecrap. Nvidea doesn't test other people's SLI boards. They just charge them to be able to make boards that allow people to buy two of their cards and use them on their boards.

They can just plead, "no support" for the use of ATI (or Intel) for graphics and Nvidea for physx just like they'd do if you complained that your GTX2** card crashes with 3DMax. They don't disable their consumer card if they detect professional 3D software. This is purely anti-competition driven.

Of course it's all soon to be a non issue. Thankfully 3D physics is moving to open source. Physx and CUDA are soon to go the way of the dinosaur.

candle_86 · « **Reply #10 on:** October 07, 2009, 10:34:50 am »

not if nvidia has anything to say about it, but also Nvidia personally certfies a series of boards for SLI, if you want it certified you have to send it to Nvidia they will upload the bios trigger to the board and test it. If it pass's there tests they certify it for SLI. What they are doing is protecting there product

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