Topic: How Sick are you of....

[Starforce2]

Be aware: spiders crawl each and every thread but are unable to comment. Google, Baiidu, Cuil, Bing... etc may even spider the same thread multiple times.

If you post in a public forum unregistered users can view and are unable to comment.

Would modellers like a members only forum so spiders and unregistered members cannot see the threads you put there?

There is a serious problem within this section of the forum.

Be careful how you say that, I was spooked that perhaps there was a serious technical problem.

Finally, remember that when you post something on the internet in a public forum it is in the wild and you no longer control it. If you do not want people to see something, do not post it. This holds for the internet as a whole.

more to come... on this strange subject...

can you atleast do something about the scrollbar on the text field when you are making a post? It flops back and forth from where you type when you press a litter andthe middle of whatever ammout of text is there.                                                                                                                                     

[marstone]

can you atleast do something about the scrollbar on the text field when you are making a post? It flops back and forth from where you type when you press a litter andthe middle of whatever ammout of text is there.                                                                                                                                   

Yeah, that is really annoying.  I thought it was just the netbook acting up with IE8 but I guess it is happening to others.

[Bonk]

Ah, yes, I did notice that issue in IE, most annoying. I think an IE7 compatibility tag might help... I'll give that a try.

Bother... testing it in IE8 now it does not do it anymore, but I did not change anything! 


edit... ah it is still doing it. Takes a long post to show it. I'll try the compaitibilty tag.


I think I've fixed it... does it still do the jumpy thing for you guys? (refresh a post page)

[FoaS_XC]

I dunno, if we need a new dedicated Members only forum... Maybe just editing this one. As a lot of good threads are already in place. I completely forgot about the spider/unregistered views though. That would make a big impact on numbers of views. Thank you Bonk.... I'm not nearly as pissy as I was

Glad I could help out. But I think you've raised a good point that we need to foster the creativity in our small community the best we can. So if there is anything I can do to help out, if there's some web app I could install or develop. We're here to work and play together, we just have to remember to have fun while we do it! 

BONK, my friend, my pal. I have a couple of ideas with something. I would love to think it through and talk to you and the other mods about it after the holidays.

As far as locking the forum to be members only? I say don't. A stray person who comes in and sees an awesome drawing by atolm or a cool model by WZ might register to see more. The spiders and all that are just something that we can deal with, now that it's factored into our thinking (truth be told I hadn't thought of it until you said something, Bonk). I would rather ignore the page-views than make this forum closed-door.

I, personally, will strive to comment on more threads, if it will help out the community - least I could do.

[FoaS_XC]

Oh bonk, one other thing.
Sci-Fi meshes has this thing where if an image is posted that is larger than the width of the post, it will automatically shrink the image with a little bar that says "This image has been scaled down, click this bar to show at full size" might be a good idea to implement something like that so that we don't have the horizontal scrollbar in posts with large images.

[intermech]

I don't post because I don't come to the forum that much any more
And when I do, you guys have all run so far ahead with your skill, I am a little bit embarrassed |{

[FoaS_XC]

Okay, IM, I have got to disagree. I love your stuff and you are very talented. I often wonder at your texturing techniques, so don't gimme that

[Starforce2]

I don't post because I don't come to the forum that much any more
And when I do, you guys have all run so far ahead with your skill, I am a little bit embarrassed |{

I think you can do more with a 600 poly mesh than anyone here. While they're not always my cup of tea, they make someone happy. Keep it up.

[Rod ONeal]

"It is what it is" You can't force comments from people. They won't be sincere and/or what you are looking for. Also, "Be careful what you wish for, you just may get it", comes to mind.

All I can say is if you like the response you get at other sites, by all means post you're work there and be happy. Just pop the finished model up here and say come and get it. You can then watch the countdown timer, my personal yardstick for the communal success of a model.

[Wicked Zombie]

I would say for most it isn't a question of being lazy or ungrateful, but simply a factor of not knowing what to say or not having time. I myself don't post much because I don't have anything viable to offer beyond the variations of "good job" - which I'm sure are not unappreciated but it tends to strike me as forced and dishonest when I come up with the same old reply every time. If what I post doesn't sound genuine to me and is only there "just because", then I don't want to insult a fellow modeler's work by putting in filler comments. But again, that's my viewpoint.

Someone earlier in this thread made a remark about how there are modelers who only have their own site and "little homes" they live in and apparently don't consider the rest of "us" worth the trouble. I have to take exception to such a remark, especially looking at how the bulk of modders in any community seldom chime in graciously at every piece of work posted by their peers. 99% of the posts in this very forum are about showing off what someone has made, so I would say such remarks are poorly considered.

Many of the regular posters here are modelers and the bulk of replies to new ship releases are by fellow modelers. For me, I take that in stride as criticisms from another hold more weight when they are familiar with the process. Not to say non-modder comments and suggestions aren't acceptable, but it is a natural human tendency to let a peer's words take precedence over anyone else.

Some of the reasons stated earlier, such as the age of the SFC and the decline in popularity of these sorts of games in general are valid. However, I have to point out that we haven't helped this situation much either. Not to go off on an "old man, had to walk 10 miles in the snow to school" speech, but I remember the ego-fests and flame wars and flinging of...stuff...across boundary lines so many years ago. Mindlessly competing with each other, spreading lies, arguing and debating and thieving and worrying - all for no other reason than our own delusions of grandeur. Factor in the times our work was blatantly ripped off or stolen or our sites subverted by community leeches and unproductive moochers, and you have plenty of fuel for forum troubles.

Hell, there have been times when other posters went off on each other for daring to critique "the masterpieces"...running off fresh faces to the forum and giving everyone - including the modders - a bad reputation. Why would anyone want to post any comment to a thread after seeing modelers treat each other in such ways, let alone the regular players? Thankfully such attitudes have leveled off and I'm glad to see that some of the more self-centered individuals are no longer among us. Unfortunately, that perception of us being egotistical, short tempered prima-donas is still with us to the point where if we even try to defend ourselves from legitimate wrongs, we get accused of whining or "not supporting the community".

I would bet that many of us, after all these sorts of mixed messages and troublesome times, would retreat back to the barest minimum of community interaction and mind our own frakkin' business, as it were. Not that I wish to imply any personal experiences in that statement or anything...

I personally stopped getting upset over the lack of replies a long time ago; it certainly has no bearing on how good or bad the work is. I learned to quit bothering with prestige and glory and to just do things my own way on my own terms, so if anyone is here for attention then I suggest you stop right now. I'm here for the hobby and the distraction and to give back to the community in my own way. SFC is the only community worth a damn as far as I'm concerned and if it weren't for what I've learned here, doing whatever it is I do, then I probably wouldn't be where I am now. How many people can say they got a job with just a hobby website for a resume?

Anyway, to steer things back to the topic - I doubt we can beg or coax people to start posting more, as we've all been trying that since before Dnet even existed. It didn't work then, and it certainly won't work now. The best thing any of us can do is to simply make what we want, why we want, when we want and let things go on naturally. And if, by some chance, we do get more than a few token replies, well that can't possibly be a bad thing now can it?

[DeathKricket]

As the sign says and my recent soap box rants have shown. There is a serious problem within this section of the forum. And I for one am sick and tired of it. As are other modellers, who unless produce a constant flow of releases do not get a single comment about their creations.

So let's get this cleaned up before we start loosing modellers again.

Please feel free to share your views as a "no comment" member. As I am curious why you take our skills and work for granted. Whilst you happily sit there and moan about the lack of releases?

So from what i make of this, your tired of every single person who comes across this fourm not leaving you a message telling you how special you are, am i close, maybe not, if you pay attention to the amount of people who are logged on or viewing boards, you will notice there are normally 2 to 4 members logged on at a time and around 5 to 10 guest, so what the end product is someone google's sfc 2 models and comes across this  forum and reads threw it, see's your post has no clue who you are nor do they care to know who you are(there here to see if there are any sfc models because that's what they googled) and when there done they move to the next list on google, hence the 177 views and 2 replies, because they do not want to register because they don't care to go though that much trouble for a game that's 10 years old to praise someone. now with that being said i am not meaning to bash your glory or honor but the members who are here and post all the time will comment on your work which if you put forth a question i would gladly say that's awesome or it looks like crap, as I'm sure would any one else here, so there is nothing wrong with this forum, its just there's a lot of guest views, and if moders want a constant ego pump to keep making models, then there is something wrong with it here.you cant expect everyone to post what you think they should, if you want a opinion then just ask and don't be mad there are 177 views and 3 replies because the 3 are the only ones who count as they are the only ones who care enough to take the time out of their real life to register and read up daily.

[KBF_Gow]

I would say for most it isn't a question of being lazy or ungrateful, but simply a factor of not knowing what to say or not having time. I myself don't post much because I don't have anything viable to offer beyond the variations of "good job" - which I'm sure are not unappreciated but it tends to strike me as forced and dishonest when I come up with the same old reply every time. If what I post doesn't sound genuine to me and is only there "just because", then I don't want to insult a fellow modeler's work by putting in filler comments. But again, that's my viewpoint.

Someone earlier in this thread made a remark about how there are modelers who only have their own site and "little homes" they live in and apparently don't consider the rest of "us" worth the trouble. I have to take exception to such a remark, especially looking at how the bulk of modders in any community seldom chime in graciously at every piece of work posted by their peers. 99% of the posts in this very forum are about showing off what someone has made, so I would say such remarks are poorly considered.

Many of the regular posters here are modelers and the bulk of replies to new ship releases are by fellow modelers. For me, I take that in stride as criticisms from another hold more weight when they are familiar with the process. Not to say non-modder comments and suggestions aren't acceptable, but it is a natural human tendency to let a peer's words take precedence over anyone else.

Some of the reasons stated earlier, such as the age of the SFC and the decline in popularity of these sorts of games in general are valid. However, I have to point out that we haven't helped this situation much either. Not to go off on an "old man, had to walk 10 miles in the snow to school" speech, but I remember the ego-fests and flame wars and flinging of...stuff...across boundary lines so many years ago. Mindlessly competing with each other, spreading lies, arguing and debating and thieving and worrying - all for no other reason than our own delusions of grandeur. Factor in the times our work was blatantly ripped off or stolen or our sites subverted by community leeches and unproductive moochers, and you have plenty of fuel for forum troubles.

Hell, there have been times when other posters went off on each other for daring to critique "the masterpieces"...running off fresh faces to the forum and giving everyone - including the modders - a bad reputation. Why would anyone want to post any comment to a thread after seeing modelers treat each other in such ways, let alone the regular players? Thankfully such attitudes have leveled off and I'm glad to see that some of the more self-centered individuals are no longer among us. Unfortunately, that perception of us being egotistical, short tempered prima-donas is still with us to the point where if we even try to defend ourselves from legitimate wrongs, we get accused of whining or "not supporting the community".

I would bet that many of us, after all these sorts of mixed messages and troublesome times, would retreat back to the barest minimum of community interaction and mind our own frakkin' business, as it were. Not that I wish to imply any personal experiences in that statement or anything...

I personally stopped getting upset over the lack of replies a long time ago; it certainly has no bearing on how good or bad the work is. I learned to quit bothering with prestige and glory and to just do things my own way on my own terms, so if anyone is here for attention then I suggest you stop right now. I'm here for the hobby and the distraction and to give back to the community in my own way. SFC is the only community worth a damn as far as I'm concerned and if it weren't for what I've learned here, doing whatever it is I do, then I probably wouldn't be where I am now. How many people can say they got a job with just a hobby website for a resume?

Anyway, to steer things back to the topic - I doubt we can beg or coax people to start posting more, as we've all been trying that since before Dnet even existed. It didn't work then, and it certainly won't work now. The best thing any of us can do is to simply make what we want, why we want, when we want and let things go on naturally. And if, by some chance, we do get more than a few token replies, well that can't possibly be a bad thing now can it?

I remember those bad days, some of the "star modelers" involved, and agree pretty much with what you have said.

Interesting for me to see, 6 years later, who is still modeling, and who isn't.

[FoaS_XC]

And who has really started since

[FoaS_XC]

I'm not really sure to whom you are responding, FW

This is in the Admin's hands as to how we as a modelling community can help make some improvements for all of us on a whole.

I disagree. The admin true job is to just make sure flame wars don't crop up and to keep things in in the right place. The responsibility of the tone of a community lies solely on those in the community. Anything that a mod or admin does on top of that is just icing on the cake (let us also remember that the admins are not modellers). I really think that wicked zombie's post is spot on and I agree whole-heartedly with him, even if I am more "active" than he is (not in a creation sense but in a conversational/feedback sense).

I've listened to both sides as far as the "giving to the community" argument. I've heard people who are tired of being railed against when a creator does something about his disapproval at how his creations are being treated. I've also heard arguments from people who would like to see certain works be done for the benefit of some. As far as my opinion of it, I would just point you towards what Wicked Zombie has said. I grow weary of people being wrongfully accused of not contributing. If a person doesn't do a thing the precise way that people wish, well, that's tough - I will always listen to my own gut before listening to any of you (and for some my gut does say "listen to this person").

Now, directly regarding this whole "no feedback" falderal. I would like you, FW, to go through my thread, and see how often you see a string of my own posts in a row, as opposed to those intermingled with replies. It happens quite often. Nature of the beast. I would also like to mention that I have over 50-some-odd ships up for download with well over 4 or 5 times that as WIPs and in all that I get a handful of comments per hundreds of downloads. This is your first ship. I don't think that a data-set numbering 1 is a fair way to measure the interest of a community. I would say that the winter-slowdown that occurs annually combined with the fact that we really are a small-knit community who "knows" each other throws your entire premise out the window, even if you discount using thread-views as a yardstick due to spiders and webbots.

My ultimate argument is this: Don't get so bent out of shape if people don't reply. I curmudgeon about it as WZ, tus, or atolm can attest to, but I don't take real umbrage. Just keep learning and chugging away. Do it for the satisfaction of seeing your ship in game, not for watching your downloads vs. comment ratio (though watching the downloads ticker is fun - if something of mine gets downloaded 200 times I take it as a huge compliment, even if I don't get a single reply).

[KBF_Gow]

One thing FoaS just mentioned rings truer than anything. 

I did my old ships for people to use, and there is no better compliment than seeing the few survivors with the download numbers they have, and that isn't counting dowloads from the original sites.

Nobody raved about them when I did them.  I didn't make em to be raved about, I made em to be used.  And, they have been.

And, as with most things, reward is intrinsic.  It has to be.  I showed horses for a living, and one fine day asked one ol Texas judge why he wasn't placing the horse I was showing, as I had been on a pretty good streak.

He said, "I just don't like your horse.  But, it's only my opinion, and it only matters today"

Thats the thing with opinions.  Be happy setting your own standards and goals.  Reach for what you know you can do, and let public reaction just be the frosting on that cake.

And, that is my christmas sermonette for the year, and I resume my regular cranky old gow programming.

[GotAFarmYet?]

You also have to remember that some times some one will post and then come back to see what others have also posted. This in itself might lead to another post but usually doesn't as once you have stated your opinion on something it usually doesn't require more posts.