Topic: Civ IV and upgrades for $39.99 at Best Buy

[Father Ted]

I counted at least three expansions among the gravy train. I loved Civ II but didn't really care for Civ III. Is it worth it?

[Lieutenant_Q]

Three?  Oh, they must have the Colonization stand alone bundled in there.

I would argue that CIII was the better game, except I expect my Civ games to be multiplayer capable, and CIII failed.  As soon as you reached flight, CIII would go out of sync.

CIV (Thats Civ IV) was designed to be Multiplayer first and foremost.  While I think it lacks in certain areas, it is by far the best version of Civ out there.  (I never played Civ I though, so I can't speak to that one)  One of the more annoying aspects was the addition of interesting choices.  In Civ III (and II) all you could do to a tile was mine it or irrigate it.  Depending on what kind of resource is in the tile, you can do a dozen different things to tiles in CIV, build a cottage (which eventually grows into a town) a Quarry, a Mine, a Lumbermill, a windmill, etc.

Resources matter, not in a way that I like, but they do matter.  You need Iron for swordsmen, you need oil for tanks.

For Military, the aspect is experience matters.  An Axeman (str 5) beats a Swordsman (str 6) most of the time because the Axeman starts with a +50% vs Melee, while the Swordsman gets a +10% city attack.  But, if that Swordsman gets 5 XP.  You can give that swordsman two promotions.  In particular for this fight, you'll want to go Combat I (+10% strength) and then Shock (+25% against Melee)  Turning the fight into an Axeman (7.5) vs a Swordsman (8.1).  In theory, a Spearman can still beat a Tank... hehehe... if it were experienced enough.

I think Civ IV could be much better, with a vastly improved resource system, along with a little bit better Combat system, I liked CIII because it was so easy to modify, it didn't require a computer programming degree like it does with CIV.  (Although I will give them credit, everything about CIV is wide open, if you have that degree).  But given that CIII won't behave in multiplayer, I gotta give CIV the better hand.

Finally to answer your question, is it worth it?  There are only three games that I play regularly, SFC:OP, CIV and World of Warcraft.  So, I think it is.

[Czar Mohab]

I'll add to this my 2cp.

First of all, Leonard Nimoy does (most) of the voice over quotes when you get a new research item.

Second, you can play any of the 4 parts to CIV without worrying about incompatable saves or messing with the overall maps or anything. You want to play CIV: Colonization followed up by CIV:Warlords? No problem.

As was mentioned, you have several options for what your city tiles get in terms of improvements. You do have to watch your "automatic" workers, though, as they can starve a city by building too many non-food producung things right over the farms that are keeping the city alive (the jerks) but for the most part the automation does do a fine job (I don't like to micro-manage if I do not need to).

Military units get promotions, as mentioned, and these can tailor your units to either increase a weak area or exploit an already present strength. Occasionally, a city will poop out a "Great General" that offers the ability to join with a unit and provide a +20 exp bonus to all units (20 total, not each, sadly) in the same tile. The general also provides a handful of better promotions once your (combined) unit becomes experienced enough.

Your cities' cultural influence influences your borders - and the sentiments of nearby cities/empires. With a strong enough influence, you won't have to conquer the city that the AI decided was a good idea to place on your land, the people of the city can and might just decide that your empire is better and change sides.

For $40+ whatever tax you might pay, the game is well priced (esp. since it seems you're getting the expansions with it). IIRC, $40 would have bought you the game on release day, or any one expansion with some change left over. I would, however, tell Best Buy where to stick it and check out an online game store ($36.99 new on amazon with free shipping); but that's just me - have bad experiences with BB almost every time I go in.

One thing that I dislike is when the AI decides that it likes me so well that it wants to be my vassal. That's fine and all, but the turds doing that cause your city maintenance to increase (1/2 of their city pop counts now as yours) and you just can't conquer them when the time comes. You as the master cannot break the vassalage, only they can - and no matter how I try to anger them, they still like me just enough to cave to my demands and stay a vassal.

One of my favorite set-ups is to play the world map that sets up all the civs on one continental "side" and later you can discover the "new world". I enjoy playing this as the Native Americans while using a quick transplant (using the in-game map editor) to start on the other side of the world... by the time the "old world" finds the my new world, well let's just say it plays out a bit differently than historical records indicate.

Czar "CIV - Windows 7 RC tested, Mohab approved!" Mohab

[Lieutenant_Q]

Vassals are usually nice.  That maintenance cost is simply there to make sure you don't get a BIG civ to become your vassal, as can happen in Multiplayer games.  And there are ways around the "I can't attack them." feature.  My favorite way, is to declare war on a civ neighboring your vassal, then don't support them immediately, the vassal will (in my experience) usually have a smaller army and not be able to fend off attacks from an independent civ.  They automatically break vassalage once they lose half of their cities, and they can break off sooner if they don't like you. (Arrogant demands  )

Ultimately though, if I get a CIV as my vassal, I don't sweat it as much.  I've never won a conquest victory, you tend to win by other means first. (usually domination) The extra +1 happiness for having a Vassal allows your cities to become bigger, and even though your maintenance costs are upped by 50% of the vassals, its still better than having ALL of his maintenance costs, and he provides you resources you don't have, even if they only have one.  If he refuses the (entirely reasonable) demand, it's war.  Also, don't share your latest and greatest with them, they usually turn right around and sell it to a neighbor.  Always good to keep the Vassal a couple of techs behind, if you need them to have Musketmen, make them yourself and gift them to them.

Also, I should have mentioned this in the previous post, but they substantially re-did how maintenance and corruption is modeled in CIV.  Corruption and waste is gone, no longer will you have a city that produces only one shield (hammers as they are called now) simply because its on another continent, you'll be paying a premium in gold for that city until you build a courthouse there, but if you have several good main cities, you can usually afford one or two colonies.  With all the new improvements, gold is easier to come by, but by the same token, if you spend too much to gold, you aren't jumping up the research tree as fast. 

The dynamics of different civic choices makes for some interesting games, usually there are some "Best" civics, but each has its uses.  I love the combination of Free Speech with Slavery, or Universal Suffrage with Caste System.  But then there are more normal civic choice, want a Theocratic Monarchy?  Sure.  You can also have a Fuedal Representative government. The one aspect about the civic system I despise is the fact that everyone has to have Emancipation eventually.  Its the only civic that affects other civs, and it gets crippling quickly.  If you see someone go Emancipation, and you either can't or don't want to, your only choice is to kill the bastard.  And you better do it quick, because the unhappy combination of "War, What is it good for?" and "We demand Emancipation!" will ruin your cities productivity quickly.

[Lono]

Dude - it's a GREAT deal! - and I just bought it for a friend - as I shelled out the Hard cash for all of the included games seperately already.

Add in the fact that they purposely stripped ALL DRM from it so you can make backup disks with ease and it's a total no brainer!

 

Enjoy!!!